"I'm not trying to..."

[Fappy]

Why is it that when people say 'no offence', they really mean 'kiss my ass'?

I suppose they're a kind of disclaimer, but they always fail

With all due respect, but I thought the phrase was with all due respect, not no offence.

Well I was ninja'd >.>

I take every chance to strike at Daystar's heart I can get.

 

[FEichinger]

Political correctness is the result of us believing something we say might offend someone else.
Now, why precisely do we believe we'd say something offensive to begin with? Because we know that it can be used to offend someone, and most likely even thought about using it ourselves in an offensive context.

Captcha: look before crossing ... Hmmm ... Nope, can't make a racist joke out of that one at all ...

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Basically, "I'm not trying to be a d**k" means "I'm about to be a d**k."

More like "I'm trying not to be a dick but I feel this is a harsh truth".

It's the same kind of logic folks use when they give you the, "Don't be mad, but I need to tell you..." Doesn't work that way. You may not want me to be mad, but it's not up to you. If you're being a dick, you're being a dick. If someone is that worried that they're about to sound dickish, they should change how they're saying it instead.

Otherwise, it's the equivalent of how my state (NC) handles road maintenance issues: instead of fixing the problem, they just label it with a sign ("Low Soft Shoulder" or "Uneven Pavement" or somesuch) and call it a day...

Sometimes people use it as a disclaimer when they're generally not trying to be racist/sexist/dick. For example, someone saying, "I'm not trying to be racist, but has anyone noticed how most of the leading Olympic sprinters are black?"

And yet, strangely, the only reason to so pointedly make such an observation is to lead into a line of discussion that is racist. It's just couched in that, "Hey, isn't this interesting?" voice.

and what racist comment would they be paving the way for? That black guys are more likely to be good sprinters than white guys? That's not racist. It's certainly not racist against blacks, and it's not really racist towards whites either, because it on its own is not saying that whites can't possibly ever be as fast as blacks, or that white people have no business being on a running track. However, most importantly of all, it's not racist because it's a biological fact. People with African, particularly West Coast African, genetic roots have a slightly different muscle structure that Caucasians. They're muscles are naturally more suited to 'twitch-response' actions, releasing high levels of energy over a short period of time, which makes them more naturally inclined to be good sprinters.

So yeah, I'm with Matthew94 on this one. I think it's more "I know this has the potential to be read as racist by overly-reactionary people, but bear with me because I'm going somewhere with this" rather than "I'm about to be racist. Flame shield up".

agreed, the person generally saying it is giving context in saying "look, this might sound racist, and i can understand why you/someone might think that, but i'm really not meaning it in any such way, so please try not to take it that way".

does context not matter to people in the slightest?

That does not give it context. The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything. And I say that they fail to explain anything because people can easily be deluded about their own bigotry so the only way to tell is by their actions, not their protests that they aren't bigoted in some manner.

oh look, we meet again! I figured you'd be biting at the chance to have at me again sometime soon

by how it get's used? give me an example then without using the phrases above that it could be used with context of not being *racist/sexist/etc..*

Judge by their actions? it is discussion, there should be next to no actions involved unless people are getting really upset and shaking their fists in the air, in which case, they probably are sexist/racist/etc for having to defend whatever it is so adamantly.

 

[Frostbite3789]

Why is it that when people say 'no offence', they really mean 'kiss my ass'?

I suppose they're a kind of disclaimer, but they always fail

Hey, I said no offense, I'm pretty sure that's like in the Geneva convention.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Basically, "I'm not trying to be a d**k" means "I'm about to be a d**k."

More like "I'm trying not to be a dick but I feel this is a harsh truth".

It's the same kind of logic folks use when they give you the, "Don't be mad, but I need to tell you..." Doesn't work that way. You may not want me to be mad, but it's not up to you. If you're being a dick, you're being a dick. If someone is that worried that they're about to sound dickish, they should change how they're saying it instead.

Otherwise, it's the equivalent of how my state (NC) handles road maintenance issues: instead of fixing the problem, they just label it with a sign ("Low Soft Shoulder" or "Uneven Pavement" or somesuch) and call it a day...

Sometimes people use it as a disclaimer when they're generally not trying to be racist/sexist/dick. For example, someone saying, "I'm not trying to be racist, but has anyone noticed how most of the leading Olympic sprinters are black?"

And yet, strangely, the only reason to so pointedly make such an observation is to lead into a line of discussion that is racist. It's just couched in that, "Hey, isn't this interesting?" voice.

and what racist comment would they be paving the way for? That black guys are more likely to be good sprinters than white guys? That's not racist. It's certainly not racist against blacks, and it's not really racist towards whites either, because it on its own is not saying that whites can't possibly ever be as fast as blacks, or that white people have no business being on a running track. However, most importantly of all, it's not racist because it's a biological fact. People with African, particularly West Coast African, genetic roots have a slightly different muscle structure that Caucasians. They're muscles are naturally more suited to 'twitch-response' actions, releasing high levels of energy over a short period of time, which makes them more naturally inclined to be good sprinters.

So yeah, I'm with Matthew94 on this one. I think it's more "I know this has the potential to be read as racist by overly-reactionary people, but bear with me because I'm going somewhere with this" rather than "I'm about to be racist. Flame shield up".

agreed, the person generally saying it is giving context in saying "look, this might sound racist, and i can understand why you/someone might think that, but i'm really not meaning it in any such way, so please try not to take it that way".

does context not matter to people in the slightest?

That does not give it context. The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything. And I say that they fail to explain anything because people can easily be deluded about their own bigotry so the only way to tell is by their actions, not their protests that they aren't bigoted in some manner.

oh look, we meet again! I figured you'd be biting at the chance to have at me again sometime soon

You think too much of yourself. I didn't notice your name until after I posted and didn't remember why I thought I should recognize the name until I checked the avatar.

by how it get's used? give me an example then without using the phrases above that it could be used with context of not being *racist/sexist/etc..*

Can you rephrase that with English grammar in mind?

Judge by their actions? it is discussion, there should be next to no actions involved unless people are getting really upset and shaking their fists in the air, in which case, they probably are sexist/racist/etc for having to defend whatever it is so adamantly.

Then let me amend that statement. By the actual discussion, not worthless disclaimers that provide no content.

right, because you hawked onto my post 10 hours after you last posted yours? funny coincidence at that then.

what i meant by that was, give me an example of how a sentence could be used, without using "not trying to be *insert here* but.. " with context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner, as you seemed so sure of yourself about.

 

[freaper]

You know what my brother once told me? That nothing someone says before the word but really counts.

I feel where you're coming from OP, but the people that make those arguments usually end up looking [insert RACIST, SEXIST, MEAN, RUDE, A DICK, etc.] anyway, disclaimer or not.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Basically, "I'm not trying to be a d**k" means "I'm about to be a d**k."

More like "I'm trying not to be a dick but I feel this is a harsh truth".

It's the same kind of logic folks use when they give you the, "Don't be mad, but I need to tell you..." Doesn't work that way. You may not want me to be mad, but it's not up to you. If you're being a dick, you're being a dick. If someone is that worried that they're about to sound dickish, they should change how they're saying it instead.

Otherwise, it's the equivalent of how my state (NC) handles road maintenance issues: instead of fixing the problem, they just label it with a sign ("Low Soft Shoulder" or "Uneven Pavement" or somesuch) and call it a day...

Sometimes people use it as a disclaimer when they're generally not trying to be racist/sexist/dick. For example, someone saying, "I'm not trying to be racist, but has anyone noticed how most of the leading Olympic sprinters are black?"

And yet, strangely, the only reason to so pointedly make such an observation is to lead into a line of discussion that is racist. It's just couched in that, "Hey, isn't this interesting?" voice.

and what racist comment would they be paving the way for? That black guys are more likely to be good sprinters than white guys? That's not racist. It's certainly not racist against blacks, and it's not really racist towards whites either, because it on its own is not saying that whites can't possibly ever be as fast as blacks, or that white people have no business being on a running track. However, most importantly of all, it's not racist because it's a biological fact. People with African, particularly West Coast African, genetic roots have a slightly different muscle structure that Caucasians. They're muscles are naturally more suited to 'twitch-response' actions, releasing high levels of energy over a short period of time, which makes them more naturally inclined to be good sprinters.

So yeah, I'm with Matthew94 on this one. I think it's more "I know this has the potential to be read as racist by overly-reactionary people, but bear with me because I'm going somewhere with this" rather than "I'm about to be racist. Flame shield up".

agreed, the person generally saying it is giving context in saying "look, this might sound racist, and i can understand why you/someone might think that, but i'm really not meaning it in any such way, so please try not to take it that way".

does context not matter to people in the slightest?

That does not give it context. The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything. And I say that they fail to explain anything because people can easily be deluded about their own bigotry so the only way to tell is by their actions, not their protests that they aren't bigoted in some manner.

oh look, we meet again! I figured you'd be biting at the chance to have at me again sometime soon

You think too much of yourself. I didn't notice your name until after I posted and didn't remember why I thought I should recognize the name until I checked the avatar.

by how it get's used? give me an example then without using the phrases above that it could be used with context of not being *racist/sexist/etc..*

Can you rephrase that with English grammar in mind?

Judge by their actions? it is discussion, there should be next to no actions involved unless people are getting really upset and shaking their fists in the air, in which case, they probably are sexist/racist/etc for having to defend whatever it is so adamantly.

Then let me amend that statement. By the actual discussion, not worthless disclaimers that provide no content.

right, because you hawked onto my post 10 hours after you last posted yours? funny coincidence at that then.

It's called waking up in the morning and seeing the thread on the first page still.

what i meant by that was, give me an example of how a sentence could be used, without using "not trying to be *insert here* but.. " with context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner, as you seemed so sure of yourself about.

Context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner? English grammar, dude. When you're making a demand like this make it clear. What you just asked for doesn't make sense.

once again, funny coincidence that you quoted me so quickly at that, is all i was pointing out.

The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything.

okay, since you aren't understanding what i'm getting at, what exactly did you mean by this sentence?

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Basically, "I'm not trying to be a d**k" means "I'm about to be a d**k."

More like "I'm trying not to be a dick but I feel this is a harsh truth".

It's the same kind of logic folks use when they give you the, "Don't be mad, but I need to tell you..." Doesn't work that way. You may not want me to be mad, but it's not up to you. If you're being a dick, you're being a dick. If someone is that worried that they're about to sound dickish, they should change how they're saying it instead.

Otherwise, it's the equivalent of how my state (NC) handles road maintenance issues: instead of fixing the problem, they just label it with a sign ("Low Soft Shoulder" or "Uneven Pavement" or somesuch) and call it a day...

Sometimes people use it as a disclaimer when they're generally not trying to be racist/sexist/dick. For example, someone saying, "I'm not trying to be racist, but has anyone noticed how most of the leading Olympic sprinters are black?"

And yet, strangely, the only reason to so pointedly make such an observation is to lead into a line of discussion that is racist. It's just couched in that, "Hey, isn't this interesting?" voice.

and what racist comment would they be paving the way for? That black guys are more likely to be good sprinters than white guys? That's not racist. It's certainly not racist against blacks, and it's not really racist towards whites either, because it on its own is not saying that whites can't possibly ever be as fast as blacks, or that white people have no business being on a running track. However, most importantly of all, it's not racist because it's a biological fact. People with African, particularly West Coast African, genetic roots have a slightly different muscle structure that Caucasians. They're muscles are naturally more suited to 'twitch-response' actions, releasing high levels of energy over a short period of time, which makes them more naturally inclined to be good sprinters.

So yeah, I'm with Matthew94 on this one. I think it's more "I know this has the potential to be read as racist by overly-reactionary people, but bear with me because I'm going somewhere with this" rather than "I'm about to be racist. Flame shield up".

agreed, the person generally saying it is giving context in saying "look, this might sound racist, and i can understand why you/someone might think that, but i'm really not meaning it in any such way, so please try not to take it that way".

does context not matter to people in the slightest?

That does not give it context. The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything. And I say that they fail to explain anything because people can easily be deluded about their own bigotry so the only way to tell is by their actions, not their protests that they aren't bigoted in some manner.

oh look, we meet again! I figured you'd be biting at the chance to have at me again sometime soon

You think too much of yourself. I didn't notice your name until after I posted and didn't remember why I thought I should recognize the name until I checked the avatar.

by how it get's used? give me an example then without using the phrases above that it could be used with context of not being *racist/sexist/etc..*

Can you rephrase that with English grammar in mind?

Judge by their actions? it is discussion, there should be next to no actions involved unless people are getting really upset and shaking their fists in the air, in which case, they probably are sexist/racist/etc for having to defend whatever it is so adamantly.

Then let me amend that statement. By the actual discussion, not worthless disclaimers that provide no content.

right, because you hawked onto my post 10 hours after you last posted yours? funny coincidence at that then.

It's called waking up in the morning and seeing the thread on the first page still.

what i meant by that was, give me an example of how a sentence could be used, without using "not trying to be *insert here* but.. " with context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner, as you seemed so sure of yourself about.

Context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner? English grammar, dude. When you're making a demand like this make it clear. What you just asked for doesn't make sense.

once again, funny coincidence that you quoted me so quickly at that, is all i was pointing out.

Only if you think waaaaaaaaay too much of yourself.

The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything.

okay, since you aren't understanding what i'm getting at, what exactly did you mean by this sentence?

That someone's intent to not be racist isn't really part of the context of the statement. Whether they intend to be racist or not is utterly irrelevant to whether they actually are being racist.

yes, i think of myself quite highly...*sips*

quite.

if i actually thought that highly of myself, would i actually sit here and debate with you?


so by that then, everyone is racist/sexist/etc based on the words and not on the context? okay then, finally, i've come to the crux of your opinion.

so i could say..

Damn it is tropical in this bar

which is a slang phrase for (man there are alot of africans in this bar)

when in fact, it could have a tropical setting in the bar, and i was in fact describing that.

slightly off example, i know, but my point is, language changes all the time, it's your intentions and context are what help keep that straight in communicating.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Basically, "I'm not trying to be a d**k" means "I'm about to be a d**k."

More like "I'm trying not to be a dick but I feel this is a harsh truth".

It's the same kind of logic folks use when they give you the, "Don't be mad, but I need to tell you..." Doesn't work that way. You may not want me to be mad, but it's not up to you. If you're being a dick, you're being a dick. If someone is that worried that they're about to sound dickish, they should change how they're saying it instead.

Otherwise, it's the equivalent of how my state (NC) handles road maintenance issues: instead of fixing the problem, they just label it with a sign ("Low Soft Shoulder" or "Uneven Pavement" or somesuch) and call it a day...

Sometimes people use it as a disclaimer when they're generally not trying to be racist/sexist/dick. For example, someone saying, "I'm not trying to be racist, but has anyone noticed how most of the leading Olympic sprinters are black?"

And yet, strangely, the only reason to so pointedly make such an observation is to lead into a line of discussion that is racist. It's just couched in that, "Hey, isn't this interesting?" voice.

and what racist comment would they be paving the way for? That black guys are more likely to be good sprinters than white guys? That's not racist. It's certainly not racist against blacks, and it's not really racist towards whites either, because it on its own is not saying that whites can't possibly ever be as fast as blacks, or that white people have no business being on a running track. However, most importantly of all, it's not racist because it's a biological fact. People with African, particularly West Coast African, genetic roots have a slightly different muscle structure that Caucasians. They're muscles are naturally more suited to 'twitch-response' actions, releasing high levels of energy over a short period of time, which makes them more naturally inclined to be good sprinters.

So yeah, I'm with Matthew94 on this one. I think it's more "I know this has the potential to be read as racist by overly-reactionary people, but bear with me because I'm going somewhere with this" rather than "I'm about to be racist. Flame shield up".

agreed, the person generally saying it is giving context in saying "look, this might sound racist, and i can understand why you/someone might think that, but i'm really not meaning it in any such way, so please try not to take it that way".

does context not matter to people in the slightest?

That does not give it context. The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything. And I say that they fail to explain anything because people can easily be deluded about their own bigotry so the only way to tell is by their actions, not their protests that they aren't bigoted in some manner.

oh look, we meet again! I figured you'd be biting at the chance to have at me again sometime soon

You think too much of yourself. I didn't notice your name until after I posted and didn't remember why I thought I should recognize the name until I checked the avatar.

by how it get's used? give me an example then without using the phrases above that it could be used with context of not being *racist/sexist/etc..*

Can you rephrase that with English grammar in mind?

Judge by their actions? it is discussion, there should be next to no actions involved unless people are getting really upset and shaking their fists in the air, in which case, they probably are sexist/racist/etc for having to defend whatever it is so adamantly.

Then let me amend that statement. By the actual discussion, not worthless disclaimers that provide no content.

right, because you hawked onto my post 10 hours after you last posted yours? funny coincidence at that then.

It's called waking up in the morning and seeing the thread on the first page still.

what i meant by that was, give me an example of how a sentence could be used, without using "not trying to be *insert here* but.. " with context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner, as you seemed so sure of yourself about.

Context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner? English grammar, dude. When you're making a demand like this make it clear. What you just asked for doesn't make sense.

once again, funny coincidence that you quoted me so quickly at that, is all i was pointing out.

Only if you think waaaaaaaaay too much of yourself.

The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything.

okay, since you aren't understanding what i'm getting at, what exactly did you mean by this sentence?

That someone's intent to not be racist isn't really part of the context of the statement. Whether they intend to be racist or not is utterly irrelevant to whether they actually are being racist.

yes, i think of myself quite highly...*sips*

quite.

if i actually thought that highly of myself, would i actually sit here and debate with you?

Well you'd probably at least figure out to use proper grammar to make sentences if you did. There I went thinking you must be from another country, then I checked your profile and you're an American so there's no excuse for that nonsense.

so by that then, everyone is racist/sexist/etc based on the words and not on the context? okay then, finally, i've come to the crux of your opinion.

I seriously had to hold myself back from getting banned. Here. No, I did not say that it isn't based on context. I just pointed out that it wasn't context that you were talking about and that context is something different. Why don't you actually address what I said?

oh yay, low blows for everyone! way to keep attacking me, these are quite fun to read. *sips cup* quite. No excuse for not giving a care about grammar on the internet? *gasp* dastardly! such absurdness cannot be allowed.

If it really makes you feel better, I'll capitalize my I's and add slightly better punctuation if me being American truly matters to you so much.

Okay, please quote or point out what I did not actively address, since we are misunderstanding each other here, and I'll give my two cents on it, so you can have your quota for the day on attacking me yet again, sound good?

 

[Something Amyss]

Basically, "I'm not trying to be a d**k" means "I'm about to be a d**k."

More like "I'm about to be a dick, but I want you to look like a dick for reacting so I can both feel good about my superficial attempt at civility and pretend you're in the wrong if you take issue."

But that's hard to type out regularly.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Basically, "I'm not trying to be a d**k" means "I'm about to be a d**k."

More like "I'm trying not to be a dick but I feel this is a harsh truth".

It's the same kind of logic folks use when they give you the, "Don't be mad, but I need to tell you..." Doesn't work that way. You may not want me to be mad, but it's not up to you. If you're being a dick, you're being a dick. If someone is that worried that they're about to sound dickish, they should change how they're saying it instead.

Otherwise, it's the equivalent of how my state (NC) handles road maintenance issues: instead of fixing the problem, they just label it with a sign ("Low Soft Shoulder" or "Uneven Pavement" or somesuch) and call it a day...

Sometimes people use it as a disclaimer when they're generally not trying to be racist/sexist/dick. For example, someone saying, "I'm not trying to be racist, but has anyone noticed how most of the leading Olympic sprinters are black?"

And yet, strangely, the only reason to so pointedly make such an observation is to lead into a line of discussion that is racist. It's just couched in that, "Hey, isn't this interesting?" voice.

and what racist comment would they be paving the way for? That black guys are more likely to be good sprinters than white guys? That's not racist. It's certainly not racist against blacks, and it's not really racist towards whites either, because it on its own is not saying that whites can't possibly ever be as fast as blacks, or that white people have no business being on a running track. However, most importantly of all, it's not racist because it's a biological fact. People with African, particularly West Coast African, genetic roots have a slightly different muscle structure that Caucasians. They're muscles are naturally more suited to 'twitch-response' actions, releasing high levels of energy over a short period of time, which makes them more naturally inclined to be good sprinters.

So yeah, I'm with Matthew94 on this one. I think it's more "I know this has the potential to be read as racist by overly-reactionary people, but bear with me because I'm going somewhere with this" rather than "I'm about to be racist. Flame shield up".

agreed, the person generally saying it is giving context in saying "look, this might sound racist, and i can understand why you/someone might think that, but i'm really not meaning it in any such way, so please try not to take it that way".

does context not matter to people in the slightest?

That does not give it context. The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything. And I say that they fail to explain anything because people can easily be deluded about their own bigotry so the only way to tell is by their actions, not their protests that they aren't bigoted in some manner.

oh look, we meet again! I figured you'd be biting at the chance to have at me again sometime soon

You think too much of yourself. I didn't notice your name until after I posted and didn't remember why I thought I should recognize the name until I checked the avatar.

by how it get's used? give me an example then without using the phrases above that it could be used with context of not being *racist/sexist/etc..*

Can you rephrase that with English grammar in mind?

Judge by their actions? it is discussion, there should be next to no actions involved unless people are getting really upset and shaking their fists in the air, in which case, they probably are sexist/racist/etc for having to defend whatever it is so adamantly.

Then let me amend that statement. By the actual discussion, not worthless disclaimers that provide no content.

right, because you hawked onto my post 10 hours after you last posted yours? funny coincidence at that then.

It's called waking up in the morning and seeing the thread on the first page still.

what i meant by that was, give me an example of how a sentence could be used, without using "not trying to be *insert here* but.. " with context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner, as you seemed so sure of yourself about.

Context that would actively describe it not being taken in a racist/sexist manner? English grammar, dude. When you're making a demand like this make it clear. What you just asked for doesn't make sense.

once again, funny coincidence that you quoted me so quickly at that, is all i was pointing out.

Only if you think waaaaaaaaay too much of yourself.

The context would be how it gets used, now whatever disclaimers get thrown up that fail to explain anything.

okay, since you aren't understanding what i'm getting at, what exactly did you mean by this sentence?

That someone's intent to not be racist isn't really part of the context of the statement. Whether they intend to be racist or not is utterly irrelevant to whether they actually are being racist.

yes, i think of myself quite highly...*sips*

quite.

if i actually thought that highly of myself, would i actually sit here and debate with you?

Well you'd probably at least figure out to use proper grammar to make sentences if you did. There I went thinking you must be from another country, then I checked your profile and you're an American so there's no excuse for that nonsense.

so by that then, everyone is racist/sexist/etc based on the words and not on the context? okay then, finally, i've come to the crux of your opinion.

I seriously had to hold myself back from getting banned. Here. No, I did not say that it isn't based on context. I just pointed out that it wasn't context that you were talking about and that context is something different. Why don't you actually address what I said?

oh yay, low blows for everyone! way to keep attacking me, these are quite fun to read. *sips cup* quite. No excuse for not giving a care about grammar on the internet? *gasp* dastardly! such absurdness cannot be allowed.

If it really makes you feel better, I'll capitalize my I's and add slightly better punctuation if me being American truly matters to you so much.

I was referring to the bits that didn't make sense syntactically.

Okay, please quote or point out what I did not actively address, since we are misunderstanding each other here, and I'll give my two cents on it, so you can have your quota for the day on attacking me yet again, sound good?

You did not actively address:
"That someone's intent to not be racist isn't really part of the context of the statement. Whether they intend to be racist or not is utterly irrelevant to whether they actually are being racist."

Any of that. The bold part you ignored in particular with that stupid strawman in the previous post.

I probably didn't say what I meant in the most fashionable manner for one such as yourself to understand, so I'll try to keep it more "syntactically" as you put it next time.

Just because they are pointing out an observation that might include a race, does not mean they are being racist. Most of the time that intro is used to dignify the grey area, so the person won't misconstrue their intentions with the statement.

I'll just quote Monoochrom as he seems to be getting the point across in a much clearer sense than my strawman is.

*pats strawman on the back*

"There there...go take a nap, I'm sorry about that old chap."

Take another look at your post. YOU and people like you are the reason the phrase is used.

It essentially means "I'm not actually racist/sexist/homophobic, but some dickhead is going to look at this and say I am anyway even though this is just a legitimate thing I have noticed."

You are currently doing the ultimate version of this, attacking the very phrase without anyone having to say it. In other words, you just presented yourself as the person desperately looking for a chance to play the "you're a racist/sexist/homophobe"-card to get a leg up in a discussion. You're perfect proof that the phrase doesn't actually help though.

Look, most of the people who say "I am not trying to be racist but..." are being racist. In fact, I can safely say I have never heard someone use that phrase or any version of that phrase without causing offence afterwards. It is simply one of those things.

Perhaps everyone should just try and avoid that phrase or reword what they are saying so it is not needed.

I disagree. I see it far more as certain people wanting to see racism etc. everywhere. Sometimes a observation is just a observation.

"Most of the criminals around here are white." That's not racist, but some asshat will try to make it out to be racist.

Even "Most of the white people around here are criminals" is not racist.

Racism is:

"Most of the criminals around here are criminals because they are white."

Lot's of people like to ignore these differences, that's why the phrase is used. Also, not everything can or should be re-worded to fit the sensibilities of others.

Kudos to you for explaining it better than I was.


Off topic: Captcha was "narrow-minded", kind of funny based on the discussion at hand.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Meh, the phrase "I could care less" bugs me more.
Because that means you DO care AT LEAST a little.

It's a completely counter intuitive statement.
And it only takes one syllable to correct "I couldn't care less"

It's misleading and lazy.

At least "I'm not trying to be (Adjective)" isn't exactly the opposite of what they meant to say.

 

[Woodsey]

Heh, this reminds me of when I was 'talking' to someone on hear a little while ago, and they said something along the lines of: "is it really racist to just not like black people? It's just that person's opinion!".

But yeah, it's often used as a get out clause when someone's about to say something that smacks of being a twat.

 

[lacktheknack]

I'm not trying to be racist, but brown bread is better than white bread.

Anyways, it's because the person is concerned that someone will misread their volatile opinion. The disclaimer often grabs someone's attention.

 

[lacktheknack]

That someone's intent to not be racist isn't really part of the context of the statement. Whether they intend to be racist or not is utterly irrelevant to whether they actually are being racist.

Weird, and here I was thinking that intent was EVERYTHING in terms of racial discrimination.

I mean, if three white guys and three black guys applied to a job, and the three white guys got hired because they were more qualified than the black guys, I refuse to call that racist.

 

[Dastardly]

That isn't racist either. It's only racist if you're incapable of having a discussion on race at all. There are a lot of black people in prison, though obviously it has to do with a number of things, from the inner city culture that leads to gang violence to possible racism in the justice system. There are plenty of constructive conversations to be had on that.

And none of them have to start with "I'm not trying to be racist," is my point.

Basically, if what you're saying isn't racist, then there's no need to declare it so before saying it. If what you're saying is racist, no disclaimer can cleanse it.

And what's more, if you're saying it because of what the other person will say or think, here's the problem: If you know this is the kind of person that will take this statement that way, they're probably not the person you want to have that conversation with.

And, going yet another step further, if someone that is that sort of person butts into the conversation, does anyone really believe that disclaimer means anything to that person? If anything, it gives them a big ol' green light -- "Hey, I'm about to say something you can construe as racist, as is your custom. Here it comes!"

The statement itself is, at its worst, abused to hide bigotry or dickishness, and at its best, it's meaningless and accomplishes nothing good at all.

 

[lord.jeff]

More like "I'm trying not to be a dick but I feel this is a harsh truth".

Basically, "I'm not trying to be a d**k" means "I'm about to be a d**k."

I've seen it used in both ways, for me it's a statement that I don't care for because it shows a lack of belief in your statement a lot of times.

 

[dyre]

That isn't racist either. It's only racist if you're incapable of having a discussion on race at all. There are a lot of black people in prison, though obviously it has to do with a number of things, from the inner city culture that leads to gang violence to possible racism in the justice system. There are plenty of constructive conversations to be had on that.

And none of them have to start with "I'm not trying to be racist," is my point.

Basically, if what you're saying isn't racist, then there's no need to declare it so before saying it. If what you're saying is racist, no disclaimer can cleanse it.

And what's more, if you're saying it because of what the other person will say or think, here's the problem: If you know this is the kind of person that will take this statement that way, they're probably not the person you want to have that conversation with.

And, going yet another step further, if someone that is that sort of person butts into the conversation, does anyone really believe that disclaimer means anything to that person? If anything, it gives them a big ol' green light -- "Hey, I'm about to say something you can construe as racist, as is your custom. Here it comes!"

The statement itself is, at its worst, abused to hide bigotry or dickishness, and at its best, it's meaningless and accomplishes nothing good at all.

Dude, stop dealing in absolutes. What if you're not sure which way the person will take it, because you don't know them well enough, and you know some people are sensitive about race issues. Therefore, you're just going to say it just in case there's a problem.

That's what it accomplishes. It's a small shield against overzealous race activists. A quick phrase to ward off possible offense. Maybe it's not a particularly effective shield, but I for one am not interested in acting as some kind of language police against all phrases that aren't very effective.

 

[lacktheknack]

That someone's intent to not be racist isn't really part of the context of the statement. Whether they intend to be racist or not is utterly irrelevant to whether they actually are being racist.

Weird, and here I was thinking that intent was EVERYTHING in terms of racial discrimination.

Did you think that between deciding to make a post that ignores context and posting?

I mean, if three white guys and three black guys applied to a job, and the three white guys got hired because they were more qualified than the black guys, I refuse to call that racist.

Where the hell did that come from? It has jack shit to do with what I said. Read again. With 100% more context and less stupid examples. Take into account that I JUST was talking about a particular statement.

Good God, this thread is getting hard to follow. I should drink some caffeine.

 

[Jegsimmons]

heres how i see it:

What they want you to hear, or what they think they hear is-
"Im not trying to be X but -insert the most hateful thing on the subject in cold blood-"

What it is 99.99999% of the time is-
"im not trying to be XS but -insert a reasonable opinion or fact that is neither 'politically correct' (read as 'wrong') or popular in today's culture, no matter how reasonable it is-"



It's like this one time an acquaintance of mine said "Im not racist but i do know that black people are over represented in criminal statistics in both the UK and USA, which possibly reflects something about they're culture or group mindset."

Then some woman who over heard butted in and lost her shit in a rude manner.
The irony being, he was not incorrect. But he's opinion and fact is not PC so he got shit for telling the truth even when he did say the "im not X but..." part.

So really, unless what you're saying is truly straight up racist and not more of a semi-sensible opinion takeing taste into consideration or a known fact...dont apologize.
You dont need to, no one got hurt, you stated a fact and or personal opinion.*

*note: saying something like "Im not racist but all X are scum", is not the type of reasonable opinion im talking about. if it was "Im not racist, but i find that i dont get along well with X people" that would be fine.