Warhammer literally defined "grimdark" in its infamous intro to Warhammer 40,000;
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
If you ever hear someone say "grimdark," that's where that came from. Warhammer's fantasy and sci-fi settings are so absurdly depressing and fatalistic that it veers well into the realm of self-parody. It's so depressing that it goes all the way around and becomes hilarious. It's the kind of setting where a general can order that his men hurl themselves at enemy fortifications in such numbers that their bodies may be used as a ramp for the reinforcements to climb up and have that be treated not only as a serious military strategy, but a sensible one.
It's the sci-fi setting with the space marines and chaos gods.
Where the closest things you have to good guys are:
Eugenics-practicing space elf aliens who seem to have a half-decent living standard, but are probably keeping everyone under mind-control of some kinds as well as treating any refugees/new colonies that aren't of their race as second class citizens, and still send billions to go fight the endless forces of the Chaos gods.
The humans, who will basically destroy your entire planet if even one dude is like "You know, maybe the chaos gods are right.", and who regularly torture people who might have once talked to someone who once talked to someone who didn't adore the God-Emperor (who is locked in endless life support).
And where the bad guys are everyone else, but especially the chaos gods who are legit murder-Cthulhu beings.
Oh, and if your planet is blown up, no big deal, you're one planet among billions. Billions die every day.
Honstly, the only faction that has their head on straight is the orks, who are like "we like fighting stuff! Fight stuff! Yayyyyy, no end goal, just fight stuff!"
Even if it's just in the most basic way possible, the series can trigger a lot of emotions. That's not something you find in just any random TV series.
The typical drama doesn't have many stakes beyond the characters' personal lives though. In Game of Thrones death is not just a personal loss, it's something that affects the course of history. Small world versus big world. (And that big world happens to feature epic shit like dragons, huge battles and ice zombies - good luck finding all that somewhere else.)
To your list of reasons not to watch, I would add (and I admit that this is subjective) that every so often the show looks like it might start be worth watching, and then changes its mind as if to mock me. Also, that it cost a zillion times more money than a lot of better shows that really needed a budget increase.
I read the first book, and it was pretty clear that the author was deliberately trying to mess with the reader. There's a duel to the death between very minor characters at one point, where I correctly predicted who would die based on which character was described sympathetically. I finished out the book, but I had no interest in continuing.
I never thought it was that clever. You are right there's something contrived about it - like he's not really writing for any particular purpose except to try to shock people. I find it quite shallow in terms of themes, metaphors, subtleties and even humour. There's a better show for almost every conceivable thing for me.
Even if it's just in the most basic way possible, the series can trigger a lot of emotions. That's not something you find in just any random TV series.
The typical drama doesn't have many stakes beyond the characters' personal lives though. In Game of Thrones death is not just a personal loss, it's something that affects the course of history. Small world versus big world. (And that big world happens to feature epic shit like dragons, huge battles and ice zombies - good luck finding all that somewhere else.)
Even if it's just in the most basic way possible, the series can trigger a lot of emotions. That's not something you find in just any random TV series.
The typical drama doesn't have many stakes beyond the characters' personal lives though. In Game of Thrones death is not just a personal loss, it's something that affects the course of history. Small world versus big world. (And that big world happens to feature epic shit like dragons, huge battles and ice zombies - good luck finding all that somewhere else.)
I watched the first season. As a huge fan of the books, I saw nothing I didn't already know. I stopped watching the show. Why bother, I already know what's going to happen. And now, well... I'm just waiting for the next book. I don't care at all for the tv show. Maybe after the book series ends I'll skim the end of the tv series to see what they did with it.
I much prefer TV series adaptations to tell their own stories. Like the short lived Dresden Files or The Legend of the Seeker. At least we see something new.
Snark aside, so, you don't like it. Fine, that's cool. You're allowed to not like things, and most of the stuff that you've listed is subjective, but those are your reasons. I like the show, and I think it's great. Well, mostly. Pacing can be weird, but not every piece of work is going to be flawless.
GoT is big right now, and you're just going to have to deal with the fan reactions until the show is completely over, sadly. I know I know, fandoms.
I mean, I can't stand Harry Potter, and everyone I know loves that series to bits. However, I zone out when they talk about it, and I just ignore the memes, movies, books, and whatever else is going on at the time.
I didn't like Harry Potter either but I've found that much easier to avoid. I guess there is probably not too long left before they end it though and then people will stop going on about it.
Snark aside, so, you don't like it. Fine, that's cool. You're allowed to not like things, and most of the stuff that you've listed is subjective, but those are your reasons. I like the show, and I think it's great. Well, mostly. Pacing can be weird, but not every piece of work is going to be flawless.
GoT is big right now, and you're just going to have to deal with the fan reactions until the show is completely over, sadly. I know I know, fandoms.
I mean, I can't stand Harry Potter, and everyone I know loves that series to bits. However, I zone out when they talk about it, and I just ignore the memes, movies, books, and whatever else is going on at the time.
I didn't like Harry Potter either but I've found that much easier to avoid. I guess there is probably not too long left before they end it though and then people will stop going on about it.
I have a friend that's a hardcore Harry Potter fan and I don't see it going away anytime soon. I mean, there's already a spin-off movie series now, and there's Harry Potter Land. I wouldn't be surprised if Legos put out a game or animated movie sometime in the future.
I should have said mythology and history. He's said in interviews that he 'took some medieval names and tweaked them'. Between the baby name books, the waves of fictional migrations, and the European historical underpinnings, I admit his characters' names have a lot of context. But that doesn't necessarily show a good understanding of the subject matter. It's fantasy, and this is a subjective thought. However, It just doesn't work for me in the same way other fantasy names do in other literature. It feels fake to me - But it's just a feeling so it's difficult for me to justify it in the same way I have with my other points.
I enjoy the show but to paraphrase someone I read on Twitter, I'm also very ready for it to be over.
Previous seasons have been somewhat all over the place but so far this one has been the most consistently...I don't know, grim and yet somehow really dull? I mean, Euron has to be one of the worst antagonists this show has ever given us. He looks and acts like he should be running a Goddamn hooligan firm somewhere in east London. And that bit with Cersei
poisoning Ellaria Sand's kid and giving us yet another long-winded speech about revenge etc.
made me uncomfortable and not in a particularly good way. We get it. Cersei is really horrible. Change the fucking record.
Anyway, I'll watch to the end because I've already invested this much time but I never really felt as though the show quite reached the same levels as other shows like The Wire or The Sopranos or Mad Men or even newer stuff like the latest Black Mirror episodes. It is, at times, well acted, interesting and is very well produced but ultimately fluff, IMHO.
The sad thing is, if you read some GOAT shows lists online it tops those ones you mentioned. I love all those programmes you mentioned - although I've only just started the wire - and it shocks me sometimes that GoT could be put on the same level of greatness as them. I'd also put shows like Six Feet Under, Twin Peaks, Deadwood The Tudors and Teachers much higher than GoT. I haven't watched any Black Mirror. Would you go as far as to put it on the same level as the shows you mentioned?
Take it you aren't a twin peaks fan. I haven't actually seen the new series yet - I was referring to the original. I can't comment on the new episodes yet.
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