Who do you believe is morally correct, if any? Keep in mind, this has absolutely nothing to do with which faction you ended up joining. The reason I made this thread is because one of the things I love about Skyrim is how neither the Imperials or Stormcloaks are obviously "good" or "evil." Looking back at New Vegas, the NCR and the Legion were so clearly good and evil that it almost seemed childish. So, Escapists, whose cause do you think is more justified?
EDIT: To me, neither are fully justified. While I completely understand the Stormcloaks wanting their land out of Imperial hands, they are also quite racist towards other groups. The Imperials sound like the have a good cause, but they go about it in the wrong way entirely.
The stormcloaks are more justified. The imperial legion is executing people for worshipping talos! The only complaint against the stormcloaks is their racism, but that's indifference at worst and I've yet to see a stormcloak execute anyone.
Tactically though, if the stormcloaks win then not much can stop the Thalmor... But the dragonborn wont let them have skyrim without a fight!
My Khajiit thief is sided with the Stormcloaks. Not because I agree with their cause, but because the Stormcloaks are bound to run the entire continent into the ground if they win the war. And thieves are opportunists, so the more chaos, the more wealth for me.
On the other hand, my more moral character, the Redguard mage, is with the Empire. If we're trying to ensure that Tamriel still has living people on it by the next game, then that twat-gargling rebellion has to be put down.
Also, I disagree with your statement about New Vegas. I thought the choice between the NCR and the Legion was a moral gray area. Sure, the NCR is more lenient and isn't half as inclined to take slaves and crucify people... But you have to take note of how greedy they are. If you speak to half of the regular civilians on the countryside, they hate the NCR because they're trying to claim territory and tax all the inhabitants, whether they want it or not. Just because the NCR doesn't administer cruel and unusual punishment doesn't mean they're morally correct. Taxing a people who doesn't want anything to do with your government is not right. That's how the American Revolution got started.
(I ended up siding with Mr. House, in case you were wondering.)
The Stormcloaks are racist, Nazi, assholes. Ulfric challenged a teenager to an "honorable duel" and then blew him away with his shout power. Challenge someone to a duel and pull out a gun, see how heroic you are.
Oh, yeah, and how about the fact that HIS CITY IS A GIANT SLUM!? The Argonians are segregated and the Dunmer are constantly discriminated against. These two races HATE each other, and yet somehow they band together in being hated by Ulfric and his followers. When you complete the Imperial part, what does his replacement do within HOURS of taking the position? Oh, yeah, fix the racial problems, and offer sanctuary for the Jarls who supported Ulfric.
Finally,
Ulfric is an agent of the Thalmor. He was captured by them during the war and now he is an agent of theirs, causing the civil war to destabilize the Empire.
While many of these points are valid, this is Ulfric your talking about, not the Stormcloaks. Its about their actual cause, and who they are as a group.
Stormcloaks, yeah! Damn them foreigners, Skyrim is for the Nords!
That joking and glaringly obvious parallel to racism aside, I feel that the Stormcloaks are more in-the-right to revolt, but they're kinda asses about it, for reasons already mentioned.
Stormcloaks? Imperials? Oh you mean the randoms I met at the start and have never spoke to since then Im at level 26 and 42 hours in havent started the main quest or payed any attention to either group at all.
Honestly, siding with the Stormcloaks is akin to suicide.
If the Stormcloaks are allowed to weaken the Empire too much more the Thalmor will invade again, and once the Altmer have control of Cyrodill and the White Gold tower they may be able to succeed in their plans of unmaking man's existence.
Imperials. All the stormcloaks are doing is distracting the empire from focusing on the real goal, fucking elves preparing to take on the Aldmeri Dominion.
And nothing should ever get in the way of fucking elvers fighting the Thalmor.
Meh. Both sides are terribly douchey. I only joined with the Imperials because Ulfric is ultimately the bigger douche. As much as I like this game, I haven't really found a likable character. They're all racist and angry, hahah.
I'm not currently picking sides; I'll only do that when I really have to. But I'm leaning Imperial, mostly on the grounds that seceding from a union during a time of crisis could turn out to be terrible.
Also, as my cousin put nicely, he didn't trudge through all those Planes of Oblivion and watch Martin Septim turn into the avatar of Akatosh to defeat Mehrunes Dagon just so he could fight against the Empire 200 years later.
The stormcloaks are more justified. The imperial legion is executing people for worshipping talos! The only complaint against the stormcloaks is their racism, but that's indifference at worst and I've yet to see a stormcloak execute anyone.
Tactically though, if the stormcloaks win then not much can stop the Thalmor... But the dragonborn wont let them have skyrim without a fight!
The Stormcloaks are racist, Nazi, assholes. Ulfric challenged a teenager to an "honorable duel" and then blew him away with his shout power. Challenge someone to a duel and pull out a gun, see how heroic you are.
Oh, yeah, and how about the fact that HIS CITY IS A GIANT SLUM!? The Argonians are segregated and the Dunmer are constantly discriminated against. These two races HATE each other, and yet somehow they band together in being hated by Ulfric and his followers. When you complete the Imperial part, what does his replacement do within HOURS of taking the position? Oh, yeah, fix the racial problems, and offer sanctuary for the Jarls who supported Ulfric.
Finally,
Ulfric is an agent of the Thalmor. He was captured by them during the war and now he is an agent of theirs, causing the civil war to destabilize the Empire.
While many of these points are valid, this is Ulfric your talking about, not the Stormcloaks. Its about their actual cause, and who they are as a group.
While Ulfric is far from perfect, I hardly consider him the asshole people make him out to be (Then again I only played as a Nord when I met him) he seems to have respect for his fellow soldiers, and he hardly ever truly comments about the racial problems in his city. The most you have are about two idiots running around saying Dark Elves are imperial spies on they're going to "Do Ulfric a favor", which isn't necessarily his doing, after all you probably have plenty members of the KKK who'd say things like "George Washington would roll in his grave if he saw all these blacks running around!" or something like that.
Plus, it's somewhat justified lore wise, the Nords and the elves have always been at each others throats. When the first Nords entered Skyrim, they were attacked by paranoid elves and had to conquer the land. Elves have tried on several occasions to conquer Skyrim, then after all that, elves declare war on them AGAIN, defeat the empire, and force them to outlaw the worship of their God. Now, Talos is the god of human kind itself it's essentially forcing the empire to Outlaw the physical representation of humanity and it's own founder. The Empire was founded by Talos who was from Skyrim, which only adds more insult to injury for the Nords. (Talos, according to lore at least, happens to be VERY real and an ACTUAL God who occasionally manifests himself in the form of imperial soldiers.) Basically culturally and religiously attempting to destroy any Pride Humanity might have in itself.
If anyones closer to being the "Nazis" in the game, it's the Damn Thalmor.
You do know Ulfric was the one who went in and basically eradicated the natives of the reach, right?
The natives were basically slaves, and when they regained their land during the Great War they tried to make peace with their former masters. They were even petitioning the Empire for sovereignty. Then Ulfric went in and slaughtered them.
(I'll post a link to the book where this is documented in a sec)
The stormcloaks are more justified. The imperial legion is executing people for worshipping talos! The only complaint against the stormcloaks is their racism, but that's indifference at worst and I've yet to see a stormcloak execute anyone.
Tactically though, if the stormcloaks win then not much can stop the Thalmor... But the dragonborn wont let them have skyrim without a fight!
They are letting the Thalmor do it anyway without restriction. Right now the Thalmor are so embeded in the empire that driving out the empire is the only way to stop them.
Edit: wait what's this about the white gold tower?
The stormcloaks are more justified. The imperial legion is executing people for worshipping talos! The only complaint against the stormcloaks is their racism, but that's indifference at worst and I've yet to see a stormcloak execute anyone.
Tactically though, if the stormcloaks win then not much can stop the Thalmor... But the dragonborn wont let them have skyrim without a fight!
They are letting the Thalmor do it anyway without restriction. Right now the Thalmor are so embeded in the empire that driving out the empire is the only way to stop them.
The Thalmor have ambassadors throughout Skyrim, but I wouldn't say they are thoroughly embedded.
Why drive out your closest ally, the only steadfast friend, an ally you've had for centuries? The ally that took the brunt of an extremely bloody invasion? This ally protected you, and lost tons of land doing it, they are forced to sign a horrible peace treaty, and when they do you immediately backstab them?
(Also, ever killed some thalmor agents? Imperials will just stand there and watch, they don't give a shit)
The stormcloaks are more justified. The imperial legion is executing people for worshipping talos! The only complaint against the stormcloaks is their racism, but that's indifference at worst and I've yet to see a stormcloak execute anyone.
Tactically though, if the stormcloaks win then not much can stop the Thalmor... But the dragonborn wont let them have skyrim without a fight!
They are letting the Thalmor do it anyway without restriction. Right now the Thalmor are so embeded in the empire that driving out the empire is the only way to stop them.
Edit: wait what's this about the white gold tower?
The white gold tower in the imperial city is one of the pillars that is keeping the entire universe from dissolving into nothingness. The Altmer want to erase the existence of man, and reinstate themselves as gods by tearing all of existence a new one.
Gun to my head though, I'd say Empire, since I like to think my guy is a distant relative to Martin Septim, plus they are the good guys, despite what the openning would have you believe.
The stormcloaks are more justified. The imperial legion is executing people for worshipping talos! The only complaint against the stormcloaks is their racism, but that's indifference at worst and I've yet to see a stormcloak execute anyone.
Tactically though, if the stormcloaks win then not much can stop the Thalmor... But the dragonborn wont let them have skyrim without a fight!
They are letting the Thalmor do it anyway without restriction. Right now the Thalmor are so embeded in the empire that driving out the empire is the only way to stop them.
Edit: wait what's this about the white gold tower?
The white gold tower in the imperial city is one of the pillars that is keeping the entire universe from dissolving into nothingness. The Altmer want to erase the existence of man, and reinstate themselves as gods by tearing all of existence a new one.
I haven't completed the game's storyline yet, but the choice of sides came down to one thing: which group wanted to publicly execute me without a single reason or crime? Go team Stormcloaks!
Out and out slavery, no raiders because the raiders now have a new name "legionaries".
Mr. House-
+ Prosperity, old world technology, most qualified for the job, well-off humans 2.0
- No voice for the people he rules, general apathy for those beyond his plans
The NCR had nothing to do with the Great War, and are not related to the old world government. In fact when they were still a tiny city-state they fought and defeated the Old World Gov.
and as for the NCR, "If you want to see the fruits of democracy, look out the windows."
That line was bullshit propaganda, the old world US was an oligarchy run by the Enclave who were men and women just like House. In fact, I'm pretty sure House was one of them.
I haven't completed the game's storyline yet, but the choice of sides came down to one thing: which group wanted to publicly execute me without a single reason or crime? Go team Stormcloaks!
You rode into an ambush meant for stormcloaks (same as lokir of rorikstead). If it wasn't for that blood-thirsty ***** of a captain, Hadvar would've let you walk away too. Wrong place wrong time :/.
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Im at level 26 and 42 hours in havent started the main quest or payed any attention to either group at all.
