In Another Castle: The Only DRM That Works

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
972
0
0
Remember (us old people) back in the day when you misplaced a game cartridge? Remember how frantically you'd search in your couch cushions and behind your bed for that misplaced (again) copy of Tetris? Remember when PC's weren't powerful enough to emulate and we had to buy the carts?

The idea of "installation" v. "plug and play" used to be the fundamental difference between console and PC gaming since we stopped playing Apple IIe games from 5.25" floppy disks (you know, back when they actually were floppy). The idea of installing games has seem to have gone from an annoyance to a luxury. With current generation consoles giving you the option to "install" the games and only insert the disc to launch the game, the line between PC and console is blurring ever still. However with "Custom Firmware" and the ilk becoming more rampant, consoles are becoming more susceptible to PC-type piracy, and the only recourse developers are coming up with is entirely reactionary (see: Xbox Live bans, etc.).

There is another answer however:

There exists in this world, a wonderful little music game called DJMax: Trilogy for the PC based on the popular DJ Max series overseas. Included with the packaging of this game is what at first appears to be a USB flash drive. This is actually a truly effective (and to my knowledge as of yet un-cracked) form of DRM. This "USB Key" provides the "profile" storage system for the DJ Max: Trilogy game in that it records your saves and stores your unlocks.

The apparent nuts and bolts (to the best of my knowledge, could be wrong, been wrong before) is that this is not a "Flash Drive" but actually just a USB "device" that the game must recognize before the game will launch into a playable state. From what I can tell by scouring the internets and not owning the game myself, the game seems to seek out the device "Hardware ID" and not files or firmware on the device itself (which could easily be emulated).

PCI\VEN_1000&DEV_0001&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_02

You might think to yourself, "how annoying" or "what if I lose it?" Well, what if you lost your Faxanadu cartridge or scratched the black bottom of your Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain disc so bad your PlayStation just showed you memory card contents instead of even trying to boot up the game? What did you do back then? You sucked it up, that's what you did. "But, eventually we're going to have baskets of USB keys lying around!" Yeah, have you looked at your shelf full of Xbox/PS3/Wii cases that you work so hard to alphabetize and dust off every week? Ever take pictures of your SNES library and post them to show how cool you are? There is a certain sense of accomplishment about having an expansive game library. Ever look at the "game list" on your profile on Steam and feel good about yourself?

On that note, what would this do to digital distribution?

Short answer: Nothing.

Long answer: I'm not going to rip off a "Yahtzee" joke and give you a legitimate long answer. Digital distribution platforms are not the source of piracy in the industry. Have you ever found a "Steam Rip" of a game or the like on the internet and gotten it to load correctly; and if so, do you consider yourself the "average pirate" or someone that will "find a way around anything ever?" If you're the latter, chances are the industry isn't worried about you. They're worried about your idiot friend who can just download a torrent or megaupload of a game image and Daemon tools it into working properly after they hop over to "that one website" and download the exe crack (or just use the one included in the image). The industry is losing to "casual pirates," not you super-uber-MIT-level pirate extraordinaire's.

The point being is digitally distributed games and their business models can remain in place and intact. This is for the rest. The aforementioned USB "dongle" method of piracy protection could make for a much more traditional (read: functional) system of "owning" PC games. Imagine a DVD or Blu-Ray shaped PC game case that has the install disc and a snap in slot for the game's USB key (much like the old PS2 cases had memory card snap in slots). You could store your PC games right next to your PS3/Xbox/Wii games on the shelf and treat them the same (meaning you have to get up and grab the disc/dongle to play it, you lazy bum).

Will this piss off PC gamers? Of course. That being said, a method like this might be the only thing that can save the PC gaming industry from completely dying off and/or getting nothing but shoddy console ports (I'm looking at you Insert Modern Shooter Here 2). This system, as evidenced by DJ Max: Trilogy has some positives to it as well. The buzz word du jour is "Cloud Saving" (which consequently has nothing to do with the next installment of Final Fantasy VII thank god) and a USB based system can easily store your online profile settings, control settings, saves, characters yadda yadda yadda so that when you get that new bitchin' PC and reinstall your game, everything is as it was; better yet you don't have to have online systems running all the time or rely on their longevity for said services.

Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not. Can it be cracked? Potentially, but it would be much more of a pain to have 27 "USB hardware emulators" running at once, and since all profile information and settings would be stored on said "thing" one glitch and all your saves are belong to us.

From a development standpoint, the added cost of using a system like this would be far outweighed by the potential recovered profit it could bring. The major caveats of a system like this is it would have to be universally accepted and implemented as an industry at the same time (at least as quickly as Blu-Ray was) or else it stands becoming obsolete vaporware before it has a chance to be successful. This would also give the doomsayers an alternative to being forced into centralized digital distribution and as long as they have their "game cartridge" they can play their game 20 years down the road without fear of Ubisoft's servers crashi-- I mean without worries of current DRM systems becoming obsolete and breaking games (I'm looking at you Shamus). The other potential upside is the extremely non-existent nature of invasive machine-breaking DRM that currently exists (SecureROM, StarForce, et. al.), and that in and of itself might be a warm welcome from consumers that cause them to embrace this as an alternative.

Has this idea already been thought of and shot down? Maybe. Am I the genius that just saved the gaming industry? Probably not; but as a consumer I can honestly say that I would be okay with this. I own a PS3, and an Xbox (Wii coming soon) and I do "Install" my games on the systems whenever possible to prevent wear on the disc drives, but I still have no problem putting the disc in the system when I play. I would actually prefer (with flash becoming cheaper) that they move BACK to cartridges for home consoles because of the lack of moving parts. Maybe I'm crazy...

I'm probably crazy.
 

Plurralbles

New member
Jan 12, 2010
4,611
0
0
High end software has a "dongle" I think works hte same way.

But ehy, I like to have games I paid for at my beck and call digitally and never ahving to re-buy the game again.

Seems stupid to re-buy a solid copy since the terms of sale of this particular intellectual property seems to be more akin to renting the shit anyway.
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
972
0
0
Plurralbles said:
Seems stupid to re-buy a solid copy since the terms of sale of this particular intellectual property seems to be more akin to renting the shit anyway.
What do you mean? Are you speaking of the digital distribution model or something more specific?
 

FoolKiller

New member
Feb 8, 2008
2,409
0
0
It seems like a nice idea that would work.. if it works properly.

The UBI DRM doesn't. That was clear when the AC2 servers went down. They will go down for Splinter Cell as well.
 

AceDiamond

New member
Jul 7, 2008
2,293
0
0
It's a nice idea but people probably wouldn't like having to keep track of multiple dongles, i know i sure wouldn't. I mean I own maybe...50 games. If that required a dongle for each game I'd have a hard time keeping track of all that.
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
10,077
0
0
FoolKiller said:
It seems like a nice idea that would work.. if it works properly.

The UBI DRM doesn't. That was clear when the AC2 servers went down. They will go down for Splinter Cell as well.
Especially since, in the words of Bugs Bunny, "confidentially, folks, that film didn't exactly break *holds up pair of scissors*"
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
972
0
0
AceDiamond said:
It's a nice idea but people probably wouldn't like having to keep track of multiple dongles, i know i sure wouldn't. I mean I own maybe...50 games. If that required a dongle for each game I'd have a hard time keeping track of all that.
People do it for game consoles all the time. And if you get those games digitally over Steam or the like, that's not what I'm really referring to, like I said in the OP. This is more of a retail-DRM, you know... the one that's causing games like Assassin's Creed 2 to become obnoxious.
 

blackjaw1

New member
Nov 5, 2009
32
0
0
That's called a dongle and I've heard that they are crackable. Apart from that, they only really see use in very expensive PC applications anymore because they're a gigantic pain for the consumer and are probably more expensive to implement than SecuROM.
 

RedFox042

New member
May 25, 2009
129
0
0
SavingPrincess said:
I would actually prefer (with flash becoming cheaper) that they move BACK to cartridges for home consoles because of the lack of moving parts. Maybe I'm crazy...

I'm probably crazy.
this would actually be pretty nice to see, and I don't think it is all that unthinkable.
 

squid5580

Elite Member
Feb 20, 2008
5,106
0
41
Ok for the sake of arguement we will say it is completely uncrackable and unpirateable (which I don't believe for a second). This is going to cost everyone more. It will cost devs more to manufacture thier games. And I doubt they will eat those costs without a price hike on games. and for what end? To stop people from pirating a game they wouldn't have bought anyways? If everyone who pirated games had the means to buy the game (ie money) and would buy the game if they couldn't pirate it then sure it would work. Unfortunately that is not the case as we all know. Alot of gamers are broke. So they turn to piracy. A fancy DRM isn't going to change that fact. It isn't going to boost sales. And when people find out they are being charged extra for a DRM dongle the internet will erupt in justifiable rage.
 

GloatingSwine

New member
Nov 10, 2007
4,544
0
0
The way to do actually (practicably) uncrackable DRM would be to have remote computing. Essentially, not all of the game code is present on the client, so whenever a certain function is required, your computer sends a request to the server and it returns the result. Much like when you're playing an MMO.

It's not quite 100% uncrackable, there are, for instance, third party WoW servers, but it's much more difficult to do than just cracking a copy protection algorithm.

As to USB dongle keys, they're more expensive for publishers to produce and ship than the cost to them of pirate games, and hardware ID can be spoofed quite easily, not to mention the program can simply be patched not to perform the check, the same as any other copy protection check.
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
972
0
0
blackjaw1 said:
That's called a dongle and I've heard that they are crackable. Apart from that, they only really see use in very expensive PC applications anymore because they're a gigantic pain for the consumer and are probably more expensive to implement than SecuROM.
Yeah, I called it a dongle in the OP, and as of now, DJ Max: Trilogy's has yet to be cracked due to the profile storage aspect (I address all this in the OP). Plus (as I also address in the OP) I doubt the additional expense would outweigh the recovered profit.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
The way I see things is that as an owner of software I should have the right to make archival backup copies of my own software in case of an accident. This was one of the biggest advantages of PC games over Consoles back in the day of games like "Faxananadu" (probably spelled badly, I did however have that cart at one time). I'll even go so far as to say that this was actually ENCOURAGED for quite a while. Basically copy all your disks, put the masters in a safe or something, and play off the copies.

Given the time I started gaming I feel that is one of my rights as owner of the game, basically I own that information/intellectual property for my personal use. I have the right to do what I need to in order to maintain that access.

Oh sure, this is pirate bait, and I mean people are probably laughing at the idea of unprotected software. However I will also say that the game/software industry remained profitable both then, and now. Despite claims of "how much piracy hurts" it has done nothing but continue to grow into a multi-billion dollar business. When I see the bucks thrown at gaming and the paydays people are getting from titles, I have a hard time feeling that they are justified with all this DRM stuff, they act like they are losing sales and such that could put them out of business. In reality it seems to me that piracy has always been there, and while not "right" it's not a true threat to the industry, it it's more of an attempt at a money grab, based on the incorrect assumption that people who pirate software would buy it if they did not have the pirated copies availible.

Given the general corruption of the industry I have little respect for their "oh noes, we're victims". Face it, in the end the games industry is just as criminal and immoral as the pirates are albeit in a differant way (Cartel Behavior, Price Fixing, etc...). This does NOT make piracy right or justified, but it does mean that it's hard to have much sympathy for the victim. My typical analogy is the issue being a brawl between the Mafia and a bunch of Gang Bangers. Just because one group makes their illicit money mostly using spreadsheets, bookeeping rackets, and other things does not mean that they are any better than the violent criminals and robbers. It's like two rats tearing at each other on a lot of levels. The big losers of course being the innocent bystanders, or in this case US the gamers who can't copy their software to make backup copies and such anymore as we were doing years ago. I think the very attitude that software developers feel that if you lose or break a disc, code, etc... you should have to buy a new copy is why they are unsympathetic.

I still remember the days of getting a new game for my Commodore 64, or Tandy 1000EX, breaking open the box, and then immediatly setting to the task of formatting 5 1/4" discs (or with later systems 3.5" ones) and then copying the software onto them to actually play the game.

Truthfully I also find it ironic that most people probably couldn't do this nowadays. I'm one of those who also feels Windows made us (me included) stupid and less capable. I miss things like the "Ready" prompt A:-> and of course Dosshell, and X-tree gold. Today if a disc doesn't instantly install itself people feel lost (sadly this includes me). This is another issue all together though.
 

squid5580

Elite Member
Feb 20, 2008
5,106
0
41
SavingPrincess said:
blackjaw1 said:
That's called a dongle and I've heard that they are crackable. Apart from that, they only really see use in very expensive PC applications anymore because they're a gigantic pain for the consumer and are probably more expensive to implement than SecuROM.
Yeah, I called it a dongle in the OP, and as of now, DJ Max: Trilogy's has yet to be cracked due to the profile storage aspect (I address all this in the OP). Plus (as I also address in the OP) I doubt the additional expense would outweigh the recovered profit.
Only after you ask yourself 1 question "why do people pirate in the first place?"
 

heavyblues

New member
Feb 27, 2008
19
0
0
That's a damn good idea - but only as long as PC games promise to stop beign released in massive fucking boxes that don't fit well with other games on a shelf.

It's a lot better than Ubisoft's shitty DRM, or EA's even shittier DRM (I can't install my Spore on my new computer, because I've already installed it on this computer once before a crash, and twice on my old computer.)

Pitch it to someone that has the power for that and see what you can do.
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
972
0
0
GloatingSwine said:
As to USB dongle keys, they're more expensive for publishers to produce and ship than the cost to them of pirate games, and hardware ID can be spoofed quite easily, not to mention the program can simply be patched not to perform the check, the same as any other copy protection check.
Except that the dongle stores vital profile information and saves from the game itself, so even if you can emulate the hardware, you'd literally have to have an emulation for each game you pirate (as addressed in the OP). If you disable the hardware check entirely, the game has no where to pull save info from. Like I said, for all that's being said about the ability to pirate something, the game I highlighted in the OP has yet to be successfully cracked to the point of usability.
 

buklau

New member
Sep 10, 2009
13
0
0
GloatingSwine said:
The way to do actually (practicably) uncrackable DRM would be to have remote computing. Essentially, not all of the game code is present on the client, so whenever a certain function is required, your computer sends a request to the server and it returns the result. Much like when you're playing an MMO.

It's not quite 100% uncrackable, there are, for instance, third party WoW servers, but it's much more difficult to do than just cracking a copy protection algorithm.

As to USB dongle keys, they're more expensive for publishers to produce and ship than the cost to them of pirate games, and hardware ID can be spoofed quite easily, not to mention the program can simply be patched not to perform the check, the same as any other copy protection check.
This is kinda what AC2 did, you got your missions from Ubisoft's servers. Too bad those servers were DDoS'd the first week the game came out.
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
972
0
0
squid5580 said:
Ok for the sake of arguement we will say it is completely uncrackable and unpirateable (which I don't believe for a second). This is going to cost everyone more. It will cost devs more to manufacture thier games. And I doubt they will eat those costs without a price hike on games. and for what end? To stop people from pirating a game they wouldn't have bought anyways? If everyone who pirated games had the means to buy the game (ie money) and would buy the game if they couldn't pirate it then sure it would work. Unfortunately that is not the case as we all know. Alot of gamers are broke. So they turn to piracy. A fancy DRM isn't going to change that fact. It isn't going to boost sales. And when people find out they are being charged extra for a DRM dongle the internet will erupt in justifiable rage.
Except that the game highlighted in the OP is already doing this, and the only people that are "raging" about it are the people who can't pirate it. I don't quite agree with where you're coming from. I think that people rage against DRM because they paid for the game and the DRM is invasive and can cause issues within Windows, or stupid things like having to be connected to the internet to play a single player game.
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
972
0
0
Therumancer said:
Given the time I started gaming I feel that is one of my rights as owner of the game, basically I own that information/intellectual property for my personal use. I have the right to do what I need to in order to maintain that access.
Well that's just it, with the dongle method, you could make as many backups as you want and install as many places as you want, but unlike the Faxanadu cart, you'd just plug in your profile/savegame (think PlayStation memory card) in order to play the game on any PC it's installed on. You could have thousands of copies of the install media, but your "right to own" is represented by "owning" the USB dongle.
 

squid5580

Elite Member
Feb 20, 2008
5,106
0
41
SavingPrincess said:
squid5580 said:
Ok for the sake of arguement we will say it is completely uncrackable and unpirateable (which I don't believe for a second). This is going to cost everyone more. It will cost devs more to manufacture thier games. And I doubt they will eat those costs without a price hike on games. and for what end? To stop people from pirating a game they wouldn't have bought anyways? If everyone who pirated games had the means to buy the game (ie money) and would buy the game if they couldn't pirate it then sure it would work. Unfortunately that is not the case as we all know. Alot of gamers are broke. So they turn to piracy. A fancy DRM isn't going to change that fact. It isn't going to boost sales. And when people find out they are being charged extra for a DRM dongle the internet will erupt in justifiable rage.
Except that the game highlighted in the OP is already doing this, and the only people that are "raging" about it are the people who can't pirate it. I don't quite agree with where you're coming from. I think that people rage against DRM because they paid for the game and the DRM is invasive and can cause issues within Windows, or stupid things like having to be connected to the internet to play a single player game.
Where I am coming from is simple. You are saying lets make this DRM that will cost $$$$ to manufacture. That money to manufacture this has to come from somewhere. Either they eat the cost bringing an already high overhead even higher or they pass the cost onto us in the form of higher prices for games. So I will break this down.

Scenerio 1 they eat the cost. And they get a small increase in sales since you can't get blood from a stone. If they are lucky they get a big enough increase of pirate sales to cover the cost. And all the broke ass pirates wait for a price drop to buy it which doesn't really help the devs bottom line.

Scenerio 2 we gamers eat the cost by another $10 increase at the store. And why are we paying the extra 10 bucks? Because of a DRM. Instead of hitting us where we game it is hitting us in our wallets. And we are still being punished for something someone else is doing. That is when the internet erupts and people start dying.

I do have an idea for an effective DRM that both punishes pirates and rewards real customers without any intrusion. Atlus has figured it out. It is called swag. Throw a keychain or a cheap plastic trinket in the box. Give us real instruction books not 5 pages of credits. Give us stuff that pirates can never get without paying someone for it off of Ebay. It won't stop piracy but then again is piracy really a lost sale or is it pirated without any intentions of ever buying? Even if it was unpirateable can anyone guarantee the pirate will buy it if they can't pirate it?