In defence of the 'Friendzoned'

[WarpZone]

What do you think? Is the friendzone an unfortunate label applied to those wrestling with romantic expression? Or is it simply a refuge invented by the possessive, who seek to validate their inability to secure their prize?

As with most internet controversies, the problem with 'friendzone' lies in how you define it. Unrequited affection is an emotion as old as the bible (as is the fratboy solution to it.) Good on you for seeking a nobler (and legal) alternative.

Unfortunately, there is no elegant way to tell someone you're attracted to them if you're already worried it'll be awkward. If you're in the friendzone, it's either because she doesn't want to have sex with you, or because she doesn't know that you want to have sex with her. (Odds are 100 to 1 it's the former, I'm afraid.) If there's any doubt, might as well tell 'em how you feel. If they reiterate that you're just a friend, that's just too bad for you. Absolutely nothing you do can change that, and anything you try would only hurt the person you claim to care for. Do what everyone else has said and find someone else.

You probably have a 0% chance of hooking up with this person, but fortunately you have a 100% chance of finding someone else in the city who wants your body.

Also: don't try and pressure her into "letting you out of" the friend zone, as if being their friend is some kinda punishment. Weaton's Law applies-- Don't be a dick. If you think "not being a dick" entitles you to sex, you're being a dick. (You already knew that and you said it in the first post, but it bears repeating, lest anyone should read this reply and get the wrong idea.)

Best of luck to you.

 

[Ruzinus]

People need to stop disagreeing with Joey Tribbiani.

Fictional as he may be, that man was a genius.

 

[WOPR]

Sorry, but that is exactly the kind of mindset that has made the term as reviled as it is. If a girl is "nagging" you for favours in the first place, then what are you actually getting out of the relationship anyway?

Absolutely nothing; which is why I stop attempting to pursue a relationship with said person. The problem is they all do it, and it's always the same stories. I personally find it hilarious now that the second they sigh and get one work out I'm able to recite what they're about to say then they look surprised.

Could you clarify exactly what the girl has done wrong in this situation? Because what comes across is that you were friends, you wanted it to be more and she wasn't interested in you romantically. She then asked you for a friendly favour, and dated somebody who she was interested in romantically. I don't understand why either of those two things would earn your ire.

Right I was a bit vague there. It's one thing to be friends, which is a nice thing. It's another thing to insult your so called "friend" (me) in front of your other friends to help fit in better, never hang out and purposely avoid contact with said friend (no matter how minor, it's not like I was stalking, THAT would be creepy.) And not reply to anything on any sources. Then come out of the blue with a "Hey, long time no see." "How've you been?" "Aww I'm sorry; hey my computer broke a few days ago, think you could come fix it? "
Stuff like that. It's not a "friendship" no matter what you call it when you're only using the person for favors but ignore them the rest of the time. That's the behavior that sets me off and gets me agitated.

Or, they ask favours of someone that, as far as they're aware, is their friend. If at any point in any relationship, be it friendship, romantic, familial, or any other type, you don't feel that you are getting anything out of the relationship, you have the ability to end it. It's not like any girl is forcing you to do these favours for her.

Oh they know by that point that I'm not their friend... *grumbles* Then they get mad at me when I tell them "No." which only makes me furious that they have the gall to treat me like crap then expect a favor. While I don't use facebook I'm presuming this would be similar to the feelings people get when the person that bullied them nonstop sends them a friend request. Or I could be totally off and just be rambling at this point, I don't know I'm just trying to answer.

It sounds like you have/had a really toxic attitude towards women in general...

...Someone asking you for help after "shooting you down" might just mean the person has a sense of entitlement, and who doesn't these days. Selfishness is not a gender-locked trait...

...It is always easier to put the blame on someone else than it is to look at yourself, honestly, and realize you are at least 50% of what's wrong in the equation.

Yeah I kinda do but after 72'ish of the exact same stories and the exact same crap it gets really old really fast... Do I in general look down on women? Yes, at least the ones I've met and fall into line with the rest. Do I blame myself for said problem? Well as a hard determinist I'd like to redirect people to Pavlov then show them the crappy life story and go "now is it REALLY my fault?" But that's not really on topic. xD
As for the entitlement: Yeah but it's still a real "dick move" for lack of a better phrase. It's like your car gets damaged, you ask someone to repair it, they total it on accident, then go "I'm still getting paid though, right?"
For that last part: Ehh I redirect to the Pavlov thing... I mean while I was pretty pathetic as a little kid, it doesn't help anything that even back in 1st grade people were doing this kind of stuff. ...which the principal and teacher admitted later they were suspending me (sending me home) for things they wouldn't for "normal kids" because they just didn't want to deal with me... despite being the victim... (I hate the whole "professional victim" thing, but when I am, and I quote, "Suspended for my own safety" that's just screwed up)

I'd think it means they thought they were on good enough terms you wouldn't mind doing them a favor. A request like that isn't entitlement. How you react if someone says no to a request would display your sense of entitlement. Kind of like how that guy reacts to the fact a girl turned him down...

I have nothing wrong with being rejected, I've been rejected and everything was fine. What I don't like is being led on, being squeezed for favors, and being used; only to be thrown into a trash bin, having rumors spread about me, and being treated like complete trash the second I stop doing them favors.
You seem awfully determined to make me the bad guy in the situation and pin everything on me... Any chance it could be that they were just cruel people who treated me like crap in the end and only pretended to like me because I was smart and would help them with things?
I mean I am dead serious, that's what would happen. Even in completely brief "non-friend-zone'ing" scenarios. Math teacher gives out an assignment, says it should take the whole period, I'm done in 20 seconds. For the rest of the period all the girls who had shot me down in the past and at my desk begging and flirting just to try to get the answers out of me. Then after I don't give them the answers they get ticked off at me and treat me like crap until the next time.

EDIT: Encase anyone is wondering, I live in Humboldt County. Don't know if there's any other rumors about the kind of people here aside from "everyone smokes pot".

 

[Echopunk]

It's like your car gets damaged, you ask someone to repair it, they total it on accident, then go "I'm still getting paid though, right?"

I'm still getting bills from the ambulance company that failed to get to my father in time. When I worked in a garage, I had a client who just kept throwing money at a vehicle I told him to give up on. It was one of those deals where everything was in such bad shape, that as soon as you fixed one thing it caused problems down the line (dealing with pressure or vacuum/etc) and caused something else to let go/fail. Finally hit the point where I told the guy to take it to a different shop. We had other customers with vehicles we could actually do something for, and it was soul crushing to sink hour after hour into a money/time pit.

I have nothing wrong with being rejected, I've been rejected and everything was fine. What I don't like is being led on, being squeezed for favors, and being used; only to be thrown into a trash bin, having rumors spread about me, and being treated like complete trash the second I stop doing them favors.
You seem awfully determined to make me the bad guy in the situation and pin everything on me... Any chance it could be that they were just cruel people who treated me like crap in the end and only pretended to like me because I was smart and would help them with things?
I mean I am dead serious, that's what would happen. Even in completely brief "non-friend-zone'ing" scenarios. Math teacher gives out an assignment, says it should take the whole period, I'm done in 20 seconds. For the rest of the period all the girls who had shot me down in the past and at my desk begging and flirting just to try to get the answers out of me. Then after I don't give them the answers they get ticked off at me and treat me like crap until the next time.

I know exactly what you mean with your example about the "hard assignment." In my case, I had people begging me for easy answers on account of my ability to finish our vocabulary/definition things in no time flat, without having to crack a dictionary in the process. My physics class also started to dislike me because I would not only wreck the curve, but finish the bonus assignments, so I would end up with 110's or 120's on my tests.

With the rumors and everything else, it is sort of like driving in the rain. You can't control how close a car will follow you, you can just increase your own following distance to reduce your chance of being involved in a multiple car accident if the jerk behind you plows into you.

You can't control how people act toward you, and throwing meat powder at them while ringing a dinner bell isn't going to make much of a difference. All you can try to do is control your reactions to everything else. Think how much better off you already are. There are people out there that haven't figured out that people will pretend to be nice to them just to get something in return. I guess the trick is to let go of naivete without becoming a complete cynic.

Taking the "everyone just wants to use me" line makes it hard to appreciate the genuinely good people you will (eventually) run into. Also, if you have a dark cloud over you (metaphorically speaking, can substitute in "a chip on your shoulder") about the way you perceive that you have been treated, it can cause a domino effect. Some people respond well to veiled hostility and suspicion, but you won't exactly be accused of casting a wide net with that approach.

In my case, my combination of brutal honesty and cynicism made it very difficult for me to relate to people. After a severe injury, I was put on a pain killer that also had a secondary antidepressant action. I found that I was more outgoing, and consequently, more approachable while taking the medication. Now, I don't like having to depend on a chemical for anything, so I taught myself to act the same way when I was clean as I did when I was under the influence. What you broadcast to others really effects the type of response you get.

My observation that people are at least 50% of their own problems isn't a personal indictment towards anyone. It is just really easy to let your outlook lead you into self fulfilling prophecy territory after you've had the same (unfortunate) outcome a few times in a row. Nothing is set in stone unless you want it to be.

 

[b3nn3tt]

Could you clarify exactly what the girl has done wrong in this situation? Because what comes across is that you were friends, you wanted it to be more and she wasn't interested in you romantically. She then asked you for a friendly favour, and dated somebody who she was interested in romantically. I don't understand why either of those two things would earn your ire.

Right I was a bit vague there. It's one thing to be friends, which is a nice thing. It's another thing to insult your so called "friend" (me) in front of your other friends to help fit in better, never hang out and purposely avoid contact with said friend (no matter how minor, it's not like I was stalking, THAT would be creepy.) And not reply to anything on any sources. Then come out of the blue with a "Hey, long time no see." "How've you been?" "Aww I'm sorry; hey my computer broke a few days ago, think you could come fix it? "
Stuff like that. It's not a "friendship" no matter what you call it when you're only using the person for favors but ignore them the rest of the time. That's the behavior that sets me off and gets me agitated.

Well that does rather suck, and you absolutely have my sympathies for how you were treated. But I have to ask, if that's how you were being treated, what exactly was it that made you want to pursue a romantic relationship with this person? If you were barely friends in the first place, and she treated you like crap, I can't understand why you would then ask her out. Or for that matter, expect her to say yes.

And for this to happen 72ish times, as you said, I would imagine that you would have seen a pattern by now, since you've said that every time it's the same story. Maybe try looking for a friendship with a girl where you aren't also hoping to date them, and where you don't let them take advantage of you, you will both get so much more out of it than you currently seem to be getting.

 

[WOPR]

Well that does rather suck, and you absolutely have my sympathies for how you were treated. But I have to ask, if that's how you were being treated, what exactly was it that made you want to pursue a romantic relationship with this person? If you were barely friends in the first place, and she treated you like crap, I can't understand why you would then ask her out. Or for that matter, expect her to say yes.

And for this to happen 72ish times, as you said, I would imagine that you would have seen a pattern by now, since you've said that every time it's the same story. Maybe try looking for a friendship with a girl where you aren't also hoping to date them, and where you don't let them take advantage of you, you will both get so much more out of it than you currently seem to be getting.

Honestly? Complete and total desperation mixed with peer pressure from my family... I never give into peer pressure (from peers) but when all my remaining relatives are glaring down on me to bring home a girlfriend already it's really hard to stay on their good side.
Yeah my family kinda sucks... The ones that are alive anyway, had lots of family members die when I was growing up and sadly the ones that died were the nice ones, all that's left are a bunch of xenophobes with extremely high standards just because my cousins are all going to ivy league universities and I'm stuck in community college (getting an AS then transferring to a proper college).

So in short, the honest reason was because I more or less needed a girlfriend to come home just so I could go one bloody weekend without the "are you gay?" talk...

(But again, I am now happily taken by who I consider to be one of the greatest girls ever and am very happy now [relationship-wise, not financially :c]; I will note it's kinda funny that I can't get any girls at all to like me, then once I'm taken they all want me. xD)