In defence of Whining

Mikodite

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Dec 8, 2010
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It is a common complaint that all people do is whine on the internet. You've seen it with regards to various -isms and the like. The argument goes like this: "making any effort takes too much time and too much effort on those lazy mofos so their just going to whine on the internet."

Except... that is how shit changes, or at least its the first step to change.

One must bare in mind that for starters the people doing the whining might not have any real power to change what has bothered or offended them.

Now, I want to be clear about this 'offense' thing: people do not choose to take offense to things, they simply do. The reason why something is offensive is that it is wrong (or at least it is perceived as wrong by the offended subject). In accordance to basic morality, in whatever your moral or ethical codes are (or even etiquette sometimes) things should not be wrong. Things that are wrong are to be changed. This is why the "You do not have the right to be offended" bandwagon is bullshit. Step one to any social change is for enough people to take offense to something.

Digression over with, this idea about power. You see, if the whiner had any real power to effect change they would effect change (duh). They would not need to vent their point or sob story on the Internet at all. They would start the process of enacting change to right a wrong. If they can't they will whine about it.

A side effect of whining (like on the Internet) funny enough is that someone might hear you. That person who heard you might in fact be in a position to right the wrong, and they agree that the wrong in question is genuinely wrong. If not said person might instead join in on the whining, thus making it louder and in turn increasing the probability of someone hearing it agreeing with it and having the power to right it.

So, in short, whining gets shit done. Now, go on and whine! It is step two of any social change! After all, the elephant in the room has to be identified before it can be eventually thrown out.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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I am sorry, but there is no defense for whining. It's irritating. There is, however, defense for a well-constructed thought put into words in a manner befitting discussion. Why people seem to confuse the two is beyond me.
 

SlaveNumber23

A WordlessThing, a ThinglessWord
Aug 9, 2011
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FalloutJack said:
I am sorry, but there is no defense for whining. It's irritating. There is, however, defense for a well-constructed thought put into words in a manner befitting discussion. Why people seem to confuse the two is beyond me.
Agreed, there is always room for criticism but you don't have to be a whiny ***** about it. I'm much more inclined to listen to a well constructed criticism/argument than someone crying their eyes out over something. Whining is completely unnecessary and achieves much less than its alternatives.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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FalloutJack said:
I am sorry, but there is no defense for whining. It's irritating. There is, however, defense for a well-constructed thought put into words in a manner befitting discussion. Why people seem to confuse the two is beyond me.
I'm with him. Compare and contrast:

a) "I find X to not be suitable/to my tastes because of A, B, and C. I suggest D which would improve it."

b) "OMG, LIEK X SUXXORZ!!!1!" (repeat a variation several hundred times)

If I were receiving these two as a feedback, b) would not only puzzle me, I would not know how to fix it (or even if it needs fixing).
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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SlaveNumber23 said:
Agreed, there is always room for criticism but you don't have to be a whiny ***** about it. I'm much more inclined to listen to a well constructed criticism/argument than someone crying their eyes out over something. Whining is completely unnecessary and achieves much less than its alternatives.
what is and what isnt whining though? on the internet people seem top call whatever they want whining (as in the outcry over the ME3 ending)

to me "whining" is just rage/negativy with little constructive input...it annoys me more I guess because here and other plcased I get pretty effing sick of it
 

uneek

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Sep 4, 2011
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Vault101 said:
SlaveNumber23 said:
Agreed, there is always room for criticism but you don't have to be a whiny ***** about it. I'm much more inclined to listen to a well constructed criticism/argument than someone crying their eyes out over something. Whining is completely unnecessary and achieves much less than its alternatives.
what is and what isnt whining though? on the internet people seem top call whatever they want whining (as in the outcry over the ME3 ending)

to me "whining" is just rage/negativy with little constructive input...it annoys me more I guess because here and other plcased I get pretty effing sick of it
Let Rarity show you

 

Luna

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Apr 28, 2012
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Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism.
 

SlaveNumber23

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Aug 9, 2011
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Vault101 said:
SlaveNumber23 said:
Agreed, there is always room for criticism but you don't have to be a whiny ***** about it. I'm much more inclined to listen to a well constructed criticism/argument than someone crying their eyes out over something. Whining is completely unnecessary and achieves much less than its alternatives.
what is and what isnt whining though? on the internet people seem top call whatever they want whining (as in the outcry over the ME3 ending)

to me "whining" is just rage/negativy with little constructive input...it annoys me more I guess because here and other plcased I get pretty effing sick of it
'Whining' is heavily doused in anger and often has little reasoning other than "I don't like this change it now." You can often determine between whining and constructive criticism from someones use of language, the validity of their logic and the overall tone of their writing.

Additionally, people engaging in criticism tend to try and solve the problem rather than merely complain about it[footnote]And I mean actually trying to solve the problem rather than saying something like "These idiots should've done X it would be so much better than what they did"[/footnote]. Constructive criticism tends to have a balanced argument as well, accommodating both sides to at least some degree.

It can be hard to tell sometimes but a lot of the time people who are whining make it incredibly obvious due to the nature of whining.

Luna said:
Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism.
True but that is a misuse of the word, 'whining' really means 'unreasonable criticism'.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Luna said:
Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism.
Id say this is definetly more true than not
SlaveNumber23 said:
good points....

I mean ok, its a vailid enough argument to complain about saaay a gameplay change or asthetic change but the way people go on and ON with bile and rage usualy when x game isn;t out I feel like saying

can't we just WAIT untill the game is out before we start raging?..at least?
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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Vault101 said:
can't we just WAIT untill the game is out before we start raging?..at least?
But... but... by that point raging would be old and we wouldn't look cool for doing it.

Can we compromise? Like, I dunno, rage a little bit now?
 

NiPah

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May 8, 2009
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I wonder how many people are going to whine about whining in this thread.
 

TheCommanders

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Nov 30, 2011
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NiPah said:
I wonder how many people are going to whine about whining in this thread.
Oh, god, what have you done? Whatever happens next is on you... *runs for cover*
 

The Rascal King

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Aug 13, 2009
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Whining is bitching, and bitching is for bitches. Therefore, whining = *****.

There, I did a math for you all.

 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
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Complain you mean, not whine. Whining makes you look like a child, explaining why it should change or pointing out the flaws is the best way to make others think and improve.

However, there are also so many people that are so damn sensitive that common sense is not enough to penetrate their skull, and they manage to call all criticisms whining as well. Often I see well thought out criticism chucked out the window because the fans/artist can't handle that maybe their product is shit.

Still though, constructive criticism is defensible and will always go further.

Vault101 said:
can't we just WAIT untill the game is out before we start raging?..at least?
Depends how much they know. Waiting for something to be released is usually too late.
 

DugMachine

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Apr 5, 2010
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When did whining ever get anything done? Might be cliche but "talk is cheap" kind of applies here. Whining just because and adding no constructive criticism or ways to improve is just annoying and gets nothing done.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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uneek said:
Let Rarity show you

Why is this so damn accurate?

As shown in the video, there's a huge difference between "complaining" and "whining".

Of course, good luck getting the internet at large to figure out the difference.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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FalloutJack said:
I am sorry, but there is no defense for whining. It's irritating. There is, however, defense for a well-constructed thought put into words in a manner befitting discussion. Why people seem to confuse the two is beyond me.
You got the right of it. Whining is considered negative for a reason. Complaints or criticism is when something is wrong. When you find a flaw with a product, when you see room for improvement, when a service isn't up to code. Whining is when you 're having a hissy fit over getting chocolate ice cream when you wanted triple chocolate ice cream.

Whining is pretty much negative by definition:
Thefreedictionary said:
1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.
2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining.
 

Arslan Aladeen

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I don't know. It seems like everyone here lives in an idealized world where talking calm and rational gets results. From what I've seen it doesn't really work like that. If you go to a store with some sort of comlaint and try to explain it calmly, they'll probably just put you on hold. You start whining and making noise, they give you their complete attention just so they can get you out of their faces faster. The MLP clip just kinda reinforces this. The creatures didn't really comply to what she wanted till after she started whining.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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MrHide-Patten said:
Didn't Jim do a video on this?
Yes, Jim did a video which was - ironically - a well-constructed lecture on the topic, making an argument that it gets certain jobs done. Putting aside what it HAS done when used, it is because it is that way of doing things that is still wrong even if it makes some kind of progress. We're not suppose to be bitching. We're suppose to be trying to be intelligent. Regardless of the effect, let me just ask you a question, point-blank:

Which would you rather hear from your various users online, a discussion that can be give-and-take and kept somewhat under control? Or...

[HEADING=1]"EEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYAAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!"[/HEADING]

...which is the collective shriek of an internet forum full of banshees acting like two-year-olds?

If you REALLY think the second option is preferable, I'd rather not know.

Arslan Aladeen said:
I had to edit this in.
That, my friend, is a fetid load. It has nothing to do with how the issue is constructed. It's the quality of your store. Since MY gaming retail store experience has been good, I must submit a fault in that line of reasoning.

Also, welcome to the Escapist.