In Defense of Silent Protagonists

Zhukov

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Woodsey said:
Zhukov said:
Really, if developers can't create a decent main character then they have no business putting a story in their game at all.
That is complete nonsense. Your ability or want to do one thing does not affect your ability to do another.
I was referring to this part of the article:

"Also, - and I know I complain about this a lot - but your average game writer really isn't up to the task of creating an interesting, deep, and noteworthy protagonist."

If a developer is using silent protagonists because they don't have the chops to create a decent protagonist then I have absolutely zero fucking interest in experiencing whatever dross they would produce in place of a narrative.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Voiced characters in first person games bother me. The only game that it worked well is Mirror's Edge, because I always knew who was talking. Probably because Faith is a girl, and thus has a girl voice and not the normal run-of-the-mill male macho voice.

I remember several times in Call of Duty: Black Ops where I was confused because I had no idea who was talking when there was more than two people in an area. Throw in the fact that the voice actor tended two flip between two different dialects when he was speaking, and it was a nightmare at a few points.

In short, I agree with Shamus. I don't mind when FPS characters talk in cutscenes--like, say, Halo or Resistance 3--but having them talk while I'm playing bothers me.
 

Chadling

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At the same time, a character that seems to communicate solely through grunts is extremely annoying to me. At the end of a game, when you've managed to unlock the True Ending and trigger a boss battle with a fallen god and your buddies are getting completely psyched up for it, it is somewhat... out of place when the main character responds to their boasts with a monosyllabic grunt.

Teammate: "YEAH! It's the last battle! This is going to be awesome! I don't care if you're a fallen god or a demented cosplayer, we're going to kick your butt back to the stone age!"

Main character: ".....Hmmmm!" *nod*

I don't care if the main character was designed to be a blank slate to project yourself onto, that's just bad writing.
 

Woodsey

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Zhukov said:
Woodsey said:
Zhukov said:
Really, if developers can't create a decent main character then they have no business putting a story in their game at all.
That is complete nonsense. Your ability or want to do one thing does not affect your ability to do another.
I was referring to this part of the article:

"Also, - and I know I complain about this a lot - but your average game writer really isn't up to the task of creating an interesting, deep, and noteworthy protagonist."

If a developer is using silent protagonists because they don't have the chops to create a decent protagonist then I have absolutely zero fucking interest in experiencing whatever dross they would produce in place of a narrative.
Writing a good character and writing a good plot are two different things.
 

Matthi205

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Woodsey said:
-snipped for space-

Writing a good character and writing a good plot are two different things.
Good characters drive a good story, bad characters can break a good story. The point is that if you actually came up with all the other characters and can't be assed to give the player an actual character to control, your story is going to be ruined anyway. Or you're Diablo, in which case: everything happened offscreen anyway, you're just the one doing the cleaning up once everybody else is dead.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Ashoten said:
Shamus Young said:
In Defense of Silent Protagonists

Shut up, already.

Read Full Article
Ok. Now admit that Master Chief is a rich and nuanced character. No I am serious. Also a protagonist does not need to speak for me to hate the decisions they make. Does anyone remember the end of Fallout 3?
But the Master Chief does speak.

Besides, he's not saying that because Gordon Freeman is good, that all non-voiced characters are good and that silent protagonists are inherently better than voiced ones. It'd be like saying because Booker DeWitt is a good voiced protagonist, all voiced protagonists are good.

It's a tool in the toolbox, and some use it better than others. Same goes for voiced protagonists. Personally, I prefer voiced ones. I'm just not able to connect to voiceless ones. And it's especially hard for me to connect to any protagonist who has no legs when I look down. All that does is tell me I'm not controlling a character, but just a floating camera with arms. But that's just me, I know others don't have the same problem and have no issue connecting with them. Wish I could...
 

TheAmazingTGIF

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See we can have silent protagonists which honestly doesn't make sense to me. Especially in terms of Gordon Freeman his silence when appearing in the dystopian future, sudden appearance of aliens, and all that crap while just silently standing by confused me.
Why can't we have a MUTE protagonist? One that is actually incapable of speaking, but can still communicate hand gestures, facial expressions, slapping someone when they do something stupid? Instead of Silent McQuiet standing idly by while the plot happens at them?
Eh, maybe it's just wishful thinking.
 

Mahoshonen

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Like every storytelling devise, silent protagonists work when used properly, and there'll always be some that never warm to it no matter what. The same goes for having a voiced protagonist.

Also, you can have good and bad use of both devices in the same game. For example, for the most part a silent Greeman works, but there are a few scenes in Half Life 2 that feel akward due to his silence. On the opposite spectrum, having Shepard in Mass Effect speak worked (even man-Shep in the first game), but there were a couple parts where the choice of what to say didn't match up with what I thought (s)he should say.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Woodsey said:
Zhukov said:
Woodsey said:
Zhukov said:
Really, if developers can't create a decent main character then they have no business putting a story in their game at all.
That is complete nonsense. Your ability or want to do one thing does not affect your ability to do another.
I was referring to this part of the article:

"Also, - and I know I complain about this a lot - but your average game writer really isn't up to the task of creating an interesting, deep, and noteworthy protagonist."

If a developer is using silent protagonists because they don't have the chops to create a decent protagonist then I have absolutely zero fucking interest in experiencing whatever dross they would produce in place of a narrative.
Writing a good character and writing a good plot are two different things.
Reeeeally...?

Because I'd say there's a lot of crossover between the skills involved in writing a good character and a good plot.

I'm trying to think of good stories with crappy characters and I'm not coming up with anything. Do you have some examples?
 

kael013

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Personally, I see this whole issue of "voiced vs silent" protagonists as a Morton's Fork. On one hand, you can make a voiced protagonist and end up disconnecting the player from the character (like Shamus said). On the other, you can make a silent protagonist but this has it's own set of problems; either the dialogue is meant to include responses from the character (which will disconnect the player as they won't respond) or everything is carefully worded so that the character never is supposed to respond - which can lead to a disconnect because the player is being railroaded. Either way, you are going to disconnect the player at some point.

So this whole issue is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
 

Ashoten

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Irridium said:
Ashoten said:
Shamus Young said:
In Defense of Silent Protagonists

Shut up, already.

Read Full Article
Ok. Now admit that Master Chief is a rich and nuanced character. No I am serious. Also a protagonist does not need to speak for me to hate the decisions they make. Does anyone remember the end of Fallout 3?
But the Master Chief does speak.
Only a few times and what he says is not exactly enlightening. What both Gordan and Master Chief have in common is that they are always 'talked at' by everyone in the game. I do not really see a difference since there is dialog going on very often. My issue is getting sick of PC gamers uplifting their characters as being these super awesome and interesting and at the same time decrying console characters as shallow and one note. Keeping in mind I am a PC gamer. All these characters are defined by how other react to them. They are not blank slates.
 

Woodsey

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Zhukov said:
Reeeeally...?

Because I'd say there's a lot of crossover between the skills involved in writing a good character and a good plot.

I'm trying to think of good stories with crappy characters and I'm not coming up with anything. Do you have some examples?
Because I've had to read it again recently: The Odyssey is a fun collection of events following an almost entirely uninteresting dude and the recent events in the lives of his almost entirely uninteresting chums. But then, those guys aren't really the point. Freeman is exactly the same, he's unimportant.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Ashoten said:
Irridium said:
Ashoten said:
Shamus Young said:
In Defense of Silent Protagonists

Shut up, already.

Read Full Article
Ok. Now admit that Master Chief is a rich and nuanced character. No I am serious. Also a protagonist does not need to speak for me to hate the decisions they make. Does anyone remember the end of Fallout 3?
But the Master Chief does speak.
Only a few times and what he says is not exactly enlightening. What both Gordan and Master Chief have in common is that they are always 'talked at' by everyone in the game. I do not really see a difference since there is dialog going on very often. My issue is getting sick of PC gamers uplifting their characters as being these super awesome and interesting and at the same time decrying console characters as shallow and one note. Keeping in mind I am a PC gamer. All these characters are defined by how other react to them. They are not blank slates.
I'm probably not the best person to get into this debate with you. Mainly because I agree. I'm just of the mind that it can be used well, and poorly. I'm not the best to decide when it's used well and poorly, since I don't really like it at all.
 

Vigormortis

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Thank you Shamus for putting to print what I've been saying for years.

I find it annoyingly hypocritical of the anti-silent-protagonist people when they say such things as, "This one example of a silent protagonist is bad, therefore all silent protagonists are bad and the games and stories they're in are badly made."

Yet, if one were to bring the same argument against voiced protagonists, the "ASP" people would say your overgeneralizing. That you're an idiot.

Just...no. Fuck you. A silent protagonist, when compared to a voiced protagonist, is an equally valid and just as creative story telling device. (when done well)

Besides, for me, when the character I'm playing in a game suddenly starts speaking it too often breaks my immersion. Especially when the character starts saying things that I never would were I in that situation. Even more so when the voice acting is generic, bland, or simply bad.

While that won't hold true for everyone, it does for me. So who the hell are you to tell me my preferred method of story telling in a game is "wrong"?
 

Kenjitsuka

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Shamus Young said:
Please don't make me share it with a voice actor.
Please don't make me share it with a voice actor AND your hack writers stupid dialogue!

Great article as usual, Shamus!
I'm very introverted, being an autistic, and I do suspect extroverts' hand in this.
Funny how Yahtzee recently (Sim City review) mentioned extroverts having a bad influence on gaming. :)

Maybe also because the auteurs from the old classic games where largely introverts in/recently from their parents basements? :p

Now it's all focus group RUINED blandness (Jimquisition)
 

V8 Ninja

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amaranth_dru said:
From a story telling point of view its difficult to understand why Freeman doesn't speak, why the NPCs all treat him as if he's always been that way. Is he mute? Has he gone the distance in NDA terms and taken a true vow of silence? If so to either of those proposed ideas, why?

To me Gordon seems to be an empty shell controlled by whatever force deigns to take over his processes. It barely passes muster to me that a physicist is proficient in military grade weapons, athletics and survival. I am aware there ARE people out there who are cerebral and physically fit at the same time (I personally feel that the body's physical state directly affects mental agility) but its not widespread or common. We usually see the "nerdy" (for lack of better terms) type as either skinny, overweight or just relatively out of shape.
Although you may have no interested in the following proposal, some Half-Life fans have suspected that players only see through Gordon Freeman's eyes when he is in a more wild, Fight-or-Flight state, those of which are triggered by extreme amounts of stress. The idea supports several very important oddities, such as Freeman's lack of speech during gameplay, his physical fitness in comparison to his job, and even the appearances of the G-Man (the more calm and collected side of Gordon). Of course, the theory doesn't support the opening minutes of the original Half-Life, but it can cover pretty much everything else.
 

Parker Chapin

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I'm disappointed, Shamus. I clicked this article to see whether you had anything new to say that might shake my opinion, or whether you would bring out the same tired defenses I'd seen a thousand times before. Turns out it was the latter.

Arguments like this one rest on the assumption that, should characters like Gordon be voiced, they will invariably be written badly, with annoying or stupid personalities. I see people point to Other M Samus or CD-i Link and say, "See? If you give characters a voice, THIS HAPPENS!" This, to me, looks like settling for mediocrity instead of atrociousness, when we should be pushing writers to do better than that. Bland is better than bad, as you say, but good is better than both.

Then there's the "canvas onto which I can project my own thoughts." I've heard that so many times it now makes me throw up in my mouth a bit. It might work in games that have no character-driven elements whatsoever, such as old-school shooters like Doom, but for games that give us a rich cast of characters to interact with, it's like assembling an exhibit of exquisite paintings for the Louvre and then placing a blank canvas at the center, telling viewers to "project your own painting." Half-Life 2 tries to sell us on this relationship between Gordon and Alyx, but since Gordon can't speak, all Alyx can do is talk to herself and assume Gordon is nodding along. And that's how everyone acts in Half-Life 2, because really, nodding along is all Gordon can do. The result is that that's who Gordon is--a spineless asshole who just goes along with what other people say, having no input, no agency, and nothing to contribute but another gun and a HEV suit.

But there's a bigger thing. You see, I don't play games in order to "project my personality" onto anything. I'm a pasty white guy who spends too much time in front of a computer screen and types up long retorts to Internet articles, why on Earth would I want to take that with me into a game? No, I play games to forget who I am in real life for a while, and step into the life of someone else. Video games are at their best not when the protagonist is acting as I would act in real life, but when I've forgotten how I would act in real life and become invested in this person who is not me. Sometimes I find, in the midst of a game, that my inner voice has taken on the voice and speech patterns of the character I'm playing as, and that's how I know the game has really grabbed me.

What I take away from this article is that silent protagonists are a decent crutch for writers who aren't capable of delivering rich, well-characterized protagonists. I suppose that's true, but I'd much rather play the games made by the people who are capable.
 

Legion

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Sometimes I feel like we are sharing the same head Shamus, because you always seem to share the same opinions on these things as I do. It's actually kind of creepy, as I think I have only ever disagreed with one of your articles.

I think it's why I found it a lot easier to get into Dragon Age: Origins than all of the other Bioware games released recently. In Origins my character doesn't say things that go against my own thoughts, they may not be able to say anything you can think of, but there is normally enough choice to make most people happy. Whereas in other games you don't even get the choice half the time as they use the voiced protagonist to say things without prompting, and in my case at least, it almost always seems to go against how I imagine my character to be.