Increasingly skinny women in video games?

[The Funslinger]

It could be worse, however. He doesn't have an unlock bonus which is a leopard bikini, at least.

Hahaha RE5. Objectification and racefail.

It's like the public relations equivolent to Tjernobyl... And why couldn't they find one Chris' size?

Also, this is fairly topical:

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/310/867/14b.jpg

It's... It's as if most of the world's cover and poster art designers (and probably the directors who perpetrated Elfstripper up there, too) have suffered some sort of head trauma and had an additional scrotum grown from stemcells to replace the broken bits...

I did not need to see the Hulk doing that. ಠ_ಠ

 

[Kahunaburger]

to anyone with a scientific background

Again with the expecting me to take your credentials re: academic papers seriously after you demonstrate an inability to read a results section and link me to papers that, if you had read, you would have realized undermine your argument.

 

[Smeatza]

to anyone with a scientific background

Again with the expecting me to take your credentials re: academic papers seriously after you demonstrate an inability to read a results section and link me to papers that, if you had read, you would have realized undermine your argument.

More evasion, more lies, you know I read that paper, and you know my reasons for linking you the other paper were to illustrate a barely relevant side note. You even know that I have not disagree'd with any of trends observed in the paper you linked.
I also don't believe I've claimed to have any credentials.
I'm going to stop replying to your foolishness now as I fear we're getting dangerously close to off topic. Myself and others have shown that your conclusions are nothing short of sensationalist.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Look, if you are a woman and are uncomfortable with the (admittedly unrealistic) body type and clothing designs of fictional women, YOU HAVE ISSUES BEYOND THE COMIC OR GAME YOU ARE VIEWING.

And if you are a man who thinks that real women look like a frank miller comic, YOU ARE SIMILARLY FAILING TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN REALITY AND FANTASY.

So, to sum up, maybe we can just NOT ***** and moan about this, and either enjoy or don't based on things that matter?

After all, yes, its ridiculous to think that a g-cup woman with a 12-inch waist and no real muscle is going out to slaughter orcs in a wrought-iron bikini, but its really just as ridiculous as a multi-billionaire creating a kevlar gimp suit to sneak around punching muggers in the dick. So, grow up, people

Some men actually find women with small breasts sexually attractive

That's dangerous in Australia.

You're malforming what I'm attempting to convey. Read it again. I never said that women can't have unrealistic bodies (of course they can), I'm simply saying that there are plenty of women out there with considerable breast-sizes and athletic figures. Google it.

I would presume something else in your denial of physically endowed women, but nevermind.

Actually, I read your post and mostly agree with it, I was responding to the THREAD, not your post

 

[Kahunaburger]

more lies, you know I read that paper

You read the paper you linked? That's not what you said two pages ago.

No I didn't read the study

Funny thing about message boards - the stuff you post doesn't go away.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

Look, if you are a woman and are uncomfortable with the (admittedly unrealistic) body type and clothing designs of fictional women, YOU HAVE ISSUES BEYOND THE COMIC OR GAME YOU ARE VIEWING.

And if you are a man who thinks that real women look like a frank miller comic, YOU ARE SIMILARLY FAILING TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN REALITY AND FANTASY.

So, to sum up, maybe we can just NOT ***** and moan about this, and either enjoy or don't based on things that matter?

After all, yes, its ridiculous to think that a g-cup woman with a 12-inch waist and no real muscle is going out to slaughter orcs in a wrought-iron bikini, but its really just as ridiculous as a multi-billionaire creating a kevlar gimp suit to sneak around punching muggers in the dick. So, grow up, people

Some men actually find women with small breasts sexually attractive

That's dangerous in Australia.

You're malforming what I'm attempting to convey. Read it again. I never said that women can't have unrealistic bodies (of course they can), I'm simply saying that there are plenty of women out there with considerable breast-sizes and athletic figures. Google it.

I would presume something else in your denial of physically endowed women, but nevermind.

Actually, I read your post and mostly agree with it, I was responding to the THREAD, not your post

Sorry.

 

[Lilani]

I just don't understand why some women cannot take pride in their sexuality. Are they ashamed of it? It's just beyond my capability to understand. Someone presents them as strong, desirable, and appealing and other such admirable qualities and they pitch a fit, cry foul and feel all insulted?

No, apparently to present women as desirable is demeaning and exploitative, even though human beings, as with any creature, are supposed to be attractive by our very nature.

It saddens me that they would feel that way. I really do pity them that they would be so insecure as to think that attractiveness is wrong.

Granted, there are plenty of examples when the absurdly unrealistic portrayal of a woman goes too far... but for the most part, as with any subjective behavior, it usually stands to be the exception rather than the norm, and for those that are truly guilty... treat it as unimportant as something so lewd really is and feel better about yourself...

Captcha: 'remail calm'
excellent advice, Captcha

*Sigh*

Let me say this one more time. No, actually, let me just copy EXACTLY what I just wrote in another thread, because it fits a sentiment like this perfectly (and explains something I said earlier in this very thread in better detail).

To set the context, the person I was responding to was talking about how both men and women are sexualized in comic books, and about how nobody made a stink about the way the women in Sucker Punch were dressed. TL;DR is at the bottom.

1. Yes, most comic books do have a very sexualized and male-oriented view of women. And not a lot of women read comic books, do they?

2. Sucker Punch was portraying specific characters with a specific goal in mind. Their sexualization was a visual representation of the male-dominated situation they were in. They were a bunch of women in a mental institution run by men, and likely being sexually abused by them on the side. While they did have power trips in sexy outfits, it also set an overall tone of objectification, reflecting how in the mental hospital they weren't women, they were objects.

See? It wasn't just for the sake of eye candy. It was to set the tone and context of the story.

3. This doesn't work in many video games because a lot of times (especially in MMORPGs) the player is intended to roleplay and reflect their fantasies onto the character. At this point, I want you to imagine a character for yourself. Give him some shape, some outfit, some power or weapon. Maybe some personality and mystique, maybe a tattoo or a scar to really set him apart. Just make him a total badass.

Got that in your head? Good. Now, think of that same character, but imagine him wearing nothing but a golden thong. THAT is the sort of thing female gamers are dealing with. The armor options given in games for male characters are representations of what men want see themselves wearing. The armor options given for female characters are what men want to see women wearing. Personally, the badass in my head doesn't look like this.

Spoiler

Or this.

Spoiler

She looks more like this:

Spoiler

Or this:

Spoiler

Or maybe even this:

Spoiler

If your goal is to portray women as appealing to men, then fine. Sexualize them all you want. But if you want to attract women as well, then your formula for what is attractive and appealing is going to have to change accordingly. Because what works for men does NOT always work for women. THAT is what both the games and comics industries haven't quite figured out yet.

Anyway, on topic: I like what you did here, Jim. You kept to one thing, and it was a really good point. The very fact that we have enough diverse people for people like me to be making tirades like this means that times are a changin', and one day perhaps I will see more and more games and MMOs where I can create the badass in MY head, rather than the female idealized in some teenage boy's head.

I'm pretty sure not all men's fantasies of themselves involve wriggling around all hot and sweaty in nothing but a leather banana hammock. So why on earth would women always want to imagine themselves that way? Yes, sexuality is a good thing. But when the idea is power fantasy of our choosing, we need to have more options than the leather bikini or the chainmail bikini.

TL;DR: If I'm going to revel in my sexuality, I want to be the one making the call of when and how I do it. And it's going to be for my satisfaction, not for satisfying others. You cannot possibly be convinced jiggle physics were made to satisfy women's fantasies.

 

[rainbowunicorns]

It's never been easier to crowd-source the funding for a project that big studios have decided has no merit. Start a Kickstarter for your game where the main focus is [how you think a particular gender should look or act in a game] and see if you can fund the development.

 

[Chemical Alia]

On the whole, I hate female game characters, they tend to be boring and predictable. There's nothing wrong with having some idealized and perfect ones, but suggesting that they should all conform to one particular look excludes so many other possibilities for interesting characters. I'd like to see more variety in body types, age, and a more intelligent approach to character and outfit design in general.

I just don't connect with a lot of game characters, and I sure as hell have no interest in making them. I'm an "environment artist" for a reason, lol.

 

[Lilani]

A valid point and an admirable response... those are the sort of examples I listed as "unrealistic portrayals of women that go too far." Granted, there are many portrayals of both men and women in fiction that I can be ashamed of. Characters such as Uncharted's Drake or The Witcher's Geralt just don't appeal to me... so if I cannot relate to them, I don't play those games. In fact, I canceled my preorder of The Witcher in part on the grounds that Geralt does not appeal to me as a character. But am I offended by it? No. Just as there are many more male protagonists I would rather play as, there are many other female protagonists I find more wholesomely appealing as well, and in fact, I would rather play as a decent female protagonists than a male, and often do when given the choice...

It is not an intentional slight against women, IMO, not in most cases, any more than it is meant to offend men when a male character can be considered 'offensive'. Just seems more like a mistake, to me, or a lack of consideration or understanding...

You have personal preferences, and that is perfectly fine, because so do I. And I know exactly what you mean about choosing characters by appeal. I have absolutely no problem with the all male cast of TF2. I don't think a female gauntlet of characters would do anything to improve it, because the males are all individual and interesting on their own. The appeal of their characters is rooted in them as individuals, not their gender, and definitely not in their sexuality. The game is almost a sexual vacuum, in a way. Like a boy-centered Saturday morning cartoon, but with blood and swearing.

And like you said, I don't think the lack of appropriate female options in game is purposefully done (well, not in most cases). I think it's just how the designers are, being male. They confuse female empowerment with female sexuality, and their vision of female sexuality as a male is big boobs and bikinis. And since this is typical of game and comic book art of women, it's become the norm, so nobody else questions it.

That comment I copied came from my response to the thread about today's episode of Jimquisition. I really liked that episode, because he is very right. The very fact that we're openly discussing things like this now is a sign the community and its expectations are changing. Shit that would have flown 10 and 20 years ago won't fly anymore, or at least not without a lot of perfectly legitimate objection. And objection can travel faster than the speed of light now with the Internet. I have no doubt the games industry will only grow more accommodating to women in the future. But until things are closer to even, I'll still be doing my best to spread my two cents and clear up misnomers and blanket assumptions that come with the great and eternal question of "What in the hell do women want from us?"

 

[MagmaMan]

Well... yeah. Don't fictional characters usually conform to ideals of physical appearance?

You'll notice that most guys in video games are tall and muscular.

That said, it would be cool to see some more chunky and/or chubby characters in games, if only for the sake of variety.

Well in fairness women do get it a tad worse.

That's because from what I can observe men seem to generally be more obsessive over sex then females. This is something we can't help. I've tried and am very ashamed of some of the fantasy images I've thought up but couldn't help.

 

[The Arctic Nun]

I like to keep things blunt, but speaking as a girl (and sometimes as an important figure of Art Nouveau ) I think all that's needed is a bit of variety.

Perhaps some realism where realism is due.

I remember playing Fable 2, and then Hammer rolls up and it's just like, 'NOW THAT'S A WOMAN THAT COULD HOLD THAT HAMMER!' Of course, then logic rolled up and was like, 'Don't be silly! Nobody could wield that hammer!' So I was all, "YOU TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET, LOGIC!"

Then logic was like, "'kay.'

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

Do games really objectify women that much? I know its there, but its not like every game does it. Besides Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, and Tera, what else is there?

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

FemShep ugly? Give me a break. She's up there with Alyx of Half Life-- tough, confident and good looking. Known a good number of military women and athletes like that, too. Guess it depends on whether that is a turn on for you or not. Me, I like women who don't look and act like they'll break in half at the first sign of danger.

I dunno, though. I remember a video panel on this subject composed of women gamers and devs (think it was on the Escapist, in fact). They pretty much said that "sexy" doesn't bug them in female characters so much as "incompetent". In other words, a character who acts like a bimbo is far more irritating than one who looks like one.

That said, a quarter century after Aliens came out, we still see damn few female main characters like Ripley-- not precisely ugly, but hardly "sexy" (Chell from Portal being the only example I can think of in videogames)

RIPLEY!!!!

Dear lord if Ripley isnt the perfect female role model, I dont know what is.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Yes I find it increasingly silly. It's nothing really to do with weight though, it's just a consequence of weight being related to attractiveness socially. Women are made up to be attractive in games, despite how impractical that may be...

Wha..? ._.

And let me guess... The men in that game all got real armour, can't have male nudity scaring away all the teenaged boys, can we?

Actually no.

1: That is a picture of the Castanic race is TERA - their entire race, including the men, is highly sexualized. Their home city looks like a red light district. Its kind of their thing. While female armors do tend to be a little less modest than male armors, the revealing outfits are based on class, not gender. The magical/ranged classes all get very revealing/"sexy" outfits, both males and females. The melee classes (except for the Castanics) all wear appropriately huge armor - including the females, though some Elven armors are the exception.

 

[conflictofinterests]

There is a difference between voluptuous (large breasts and hips, with or without a powerful build aside from that) and a pole with two watermelons tied to it with a few strips of electrical tape. There is tasteful and there is blatant "pandering." Where people draw the line is where you see most disagreement, but for the most part people aren't arguing about the existence of the line. Generally there's a problem when the female character looks like a supermodel or a porn star but has no redeeming qualities aside from that, especially when it comes to the story line or character arch. Then you have simply a token woman who also serves the purpose of being masturbation material.

TL,DR: When the beauty is only skin deep, we have a right to complain.