Indie RPG Developer Details Why Ubisoft's DRM Will Be Effective

[LTK_70]

The games require you to be connected to the internet all the freaking time. If your ISP chokes for even a second, say bye bye to all your progress so far from the last check point.

I know, but surely it would be easy enough to crack that, allowing you to play the game but not save your progress? If you bulldozer through it in one lazy Sunday, you can do without savegames, right?

 

[teh_gunslinger]

If only there was a third option besides buying the game or pirating it. You know, a way to show we're not willing to bend over and take it up the pooper.
Oh wait.

... pirate it through usenet?

Don't be a pirating dickhead and just not buy the game? Is what I think he meant.

Ubisoft has done something tyrannical here, sure, but they've still got the moral high ground above pirates and thieves.

That's true enough, but I don't think they have their moral high ground is high enough to punish legitimate buyers like this. While pirates indeed may be a problem (I'm not entirely convinced as to the validity of the arguments) it's no excuse for doing something as heinous as this.

The only thing they've accomplished as far as I'm concerned is making sure I'll never buy a game of theirs again, be it on pc or my PS3. I was looking forward to AC2 but now I'll never get to play it. The same goes for Silent Hunter, SC Conviction. Sad, I think, but that's how it has to be. It's not a boycott, precisely, just a matter of my prioritizing what trends in the industry to support. That's really the best weapon I have as a consumer. And it's the reason why I buy a lot of stuff via Impulse and gog.com (and Steam for that matter). Impulse, while being DRM does provide me with some services as do Steam and I'll live with the DRM in order to use those services. Gog.com, once you download the games, they are yours. Burn them on a disc and you never have to see gog.com again for the rest of your life if you so choose. That's pretty awesome. Furthermore I feel like they treat me like a customer and not a potential thief. Oh, and I buy Telltale games directly from their own store. Seriously, the customer support those guys have are second to none in my experience.
What I don't do is buying Ubisoft and Actibilzzion games. Never. Or at least as long as they are being dicks to me as a customer. EA is on the balance. I bought Dragong Age and ME2 but I'm cautious of shopping with them.

But I wont lower myself to pirating their games. My bandwidth deserver better that to be tainted with this.

Here's hoping 2K have learned something and wont ship Civ 5 with GFWL and SecuROM.

 

[Darktau]

"Indie RPG developer details why ubisofts DRM will be EFFECTIVE"
It's not effective if people won't buy the game because of it?
Besides, I reckon the most likely outcome will be a new IP in the windows hosts file.

 

[Amnestic]

I'll give it a week maximum.

And since they seem to intend to use this same basic DRM for every PC game of theirs going forward, once it's been done once, it'll happen faster with each new game they bring out.

 

[carpathic]

Just another reason PC gaming is dying.

1. I don't want a company to have that kind of access to my computer
2. I don't like playing over the internet, or the feeling that I have to pay extra money for my ISP so that I can play a 90$ game in the first place
3.

Funny, I can kind of see Ubisoft's DRM will be effective because NOBODY WILL PLAY THEIR FUCKING GAMES ANYMORE.

(Totally agree here)
4. I am not a pirate, I even buy my music legally and I will not be treated as such. So Ubisoft might stop me from pirating, but they have now effectively stopped my from buying any game in the first place, anyway. Their loss.

 

[Talendra]

The worst part of this DRM is that it is very unlikely they will keep the servers up for ever. Look at alot of games without dedicated servers that are losing their multiplayer lately. Now it will happen with single player too.
They may be able to patch it to allow you to play without connecting when they eventually do this, but the fact is, unless it is quick and easy to patch (cheap) they probably won't, and if it is quick and easy, then it would likely be just as quick and easy for hackers to do the same.
All the other negatives suck too, but that is the part that bothers me the most, I won't be buying anymore ubisoft games, and hopefully alot of other people won't too and they will get their spore like wake up call.

 

[ygetoff]

I can see this driving a lot of PC gamers to consoles in the foreseeable future. I'm not saying that PC > Console or Console > PC. I'm not about go get into a flamewar. Because of the whole "connect to internet" drama, people aren't going to have the energy for it. Especially on crappy connections, driving players to find the games on other ports. I, for one, wouldn't buy AC2 on PC because of this and would buy it on Xbox or PS3. That goes for the other games with this DRM.

You can't spell Drama, without DRM

Prepare for an increase in console sales in the future,

Or you could, you know, make sure you don't encourage their bullshit by giving them money.

I wouldn't want to miss out on a great game because of some stupid DRM thing I don't agree with when there is a perfectly good port out there that I can enjoy the game on.

And that is precisely why, if I ever really want to play the game, I will pirate it. Why should I deprive myself of a good game just because Ubisoft decided to piss all over my platform of choice?

That won't solve the problem at all. What happens next time around when Ubisoft takes a look at their sales numbers and discovers all the people like you who think that more piracy will solve the problem?

 

[saejox]

worst case scenario;
Savestates, (save whole memory used by game to disk, load back to continue)

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Wow...denial is not just a river after all....

I can see this driving a lot of PC gamers to consoles in the foreseeable future. I'm not saying that PC > Console or Console > PC. I'm not about go get into a flamewar. Because of the whole "connect to internet" drama, people aren't going to have the energy for it. Especially on crappy connections, driving players to find the games on other ports. I, for one, wouldn't buy AC2 on PC because of this and would buy it on Xbox or PS3. That goes for the other games with this DRM.

You can't spell Drama, without DRM

Prepare for an increase in console sales in the future,

Or you could, you know, make sure you don't encourage their bullshit by giving them money.

I wouldn't want to miss out on a great game because of some stupid DRM thing I don't agree with when there is a perfectly good port out there that I can enjoy the game on.

And that is precisely why, if I ever really want to play the game, I will pirate it. Why should I deprive myself of a good game just because Ubisoft decided to piss all over my platform of choice?

That won't solve the problem at all. What happens next time around when Ubisoft takes a look at their sales numbers and discovers all the people like you who think that more piracy will solve the problem?

Who said anything about solving it? Developers are the ones pushing their pinkies further and further up people's butts, not the pirates.

Its not really the devs its the publishers...

 

[ygetoff]

I can see this driving a lot of PC gamers to consoles in the foreseeable future. I'm not saying that PC > Console or Console > PC. I'm not about go get into a flamewar. Because of the whole "connect to internet" drama, people aren't going to have the energy for it. Especially on crappy connections, driving players to find the games on other ports. I, for one, wouldn't buy AC2 on PC because of this and would buy it on Xbox or PS3. That goes for the other games with this DRM.

You can't spell Drama, without DRM

Prepare for an increase in console sales in the future,

Or you could, you know, make sure you don't encourage their bullshit by giving them money.

I wouldn't want to miss out on a great game because of some stupid DRM thing I don't agree with when there is a perfectly good port out there that I can enjoy the game on.

And that is precisely why, if I ever really want to play the game, I will pirate it. Why should I deprive myself of a good game just because Ubisoft decided to piss all over my platform of choice?

That won't solve the problem at all. What happens next time around when Ubisoft takes a look at their sales numbers and discovers all the people like you who think that more piracy will solve the problem?

Who said anything about solving it? Developers are the ones pushing their pinkies further and further up people's butts, not the pirates.

And the pirates are the ones making the devs do the act you just described (I really can't be bothered to type that whole thing). When more people pirate, more devs install worse and worse DRM, and that makes more and more people pirate games. What you are planning to do only makes the problem worse for everyone.

 

[Odjin]

Bit of a kick in the teeth for people without the internet. But then, I expect that's nobody nowadays.

You would be surprised how many nowadays don't have internet or are on slow dial-up. There are people in my block which play online and have shitty slow dial-up connection which constantly drops connection. Why? Because they are not tech-savvy people like me knowing how to setup a real gaming usable internet connection.

 

[Calhoun347]

So saving things on a central server instead

Snip ((Am I doing it right?)

Are you being serious? It's not all that magical, or even difficult to understand (Onlive, that is.) The game is run on what essentially is a server farm. All the frames are sent to you, and your inputs are sent to the server. The only limiting factor is your latency. If it's low enough, you shouldn't notice a difference.

It's also not just about editing DRM "entries" from the exe file. that is oversimplifying. Many cracks also require an additional .dll file or more. It really depends on the detection scheme.

No, Are YOU being serious? What you suggest here, is basicly, that every upcoming Ubisoft game would be an Mmo-like experience, where all the processing is done on an Ubi-soft controlled server - meaning that

a) Ubisoft would have to provide enough servers, to reflect all machines of everyone to buy their products ever (Which would be way more expensive, than handing out the games for free in front of wallmart)

b) You not only need an Internet connection 100% of the time, but also need a highspeed internet, to reach a somewhat bearable framerate, IN A SINGLEPLAYER OFFLINE-GAME.

So I'm pretty sure (thoug my boyfriend is the expert, i'm just speculating here), all that glorious drm does, is sending certain strings of code representing ingame progress to the Ubisoft server, which you then request back to unlock the game up to the point of where you left off (Since actually up/downloading save games as a whole, would mean an AWFUL lot of traffic. And that would laughably easily be cracked. (As would, saving stuff on a central server anyway - thats what mmos try, and good thing they never get pirated, so there's no private servers around, eh?)

Er.. I'm talking about Onlive. Not Ubisoft's insane new DRM. So, yeah.

 

[Calhoun347]

Holy fucking shit.

Or they just edit any drm entries out of the primary exe file. LIKE THEY'VE BEEN DOING FOR DECADES.

Actually I think the point is that parts of the game are not stored on your computer or on the disc, so this means you never have access to an intact product to crack. Even if you did so, you'd be missing information present on their servers. For example with the save games being stored on their servers you'd have to pretty much create a save game system.

If the game is playable, it has to be on your computer. Period. Whether they have to dump the ram and dig the game code out of it or what.

This isn't some flying car bullshit like that onlive scam, where games can be streamed over the internet through the power of magic and investments.

Are you being serious? It's not all that magical, or even difficult to understand (Onlive, that is.) The game is run on what essentially is a server farm. All the frames are sent to you, and your inputs are sent to the server. The only limiting factor is your latency. If it's low enough, you shouldn't notice a difference.

It's also not just about editing DRM "entries" from the exe file. that is oversimplifying. Many cracks also require an additional .dll file or more. It really depends on the detection scheme.

Oh... wow... I... I didn't think enough ignorance existed to defend onlive.

The problem with onlive isn't latency, its reality. In order for it to work, computers and the internet would have to start being built out of MAGIC. Since as it stands, it's model would be "Player input to router (repeat 10-20 times)to onlive server to game to video render to video encoder to server to router (repeat a 10-20 times) to player = holy shit this so is not worth monthly payments."

Not to mention the extra files are mostly junk data to match a hidden hash check. Its not so much simplification as people vastly overstating the capacity of drm. Since, in reality, its really just a case of changing "if drm passes goto fail" to "if drm passes goto game."

Okay. You send your input in any online game. It functions doesn't it? you may notice a slight delay if your latency is too high. But it does work, does it not?

Have you even heard how well it works from some of the reporters who have gotten to play with it hands on? Because it's worked pretty good for everyone who's tried it. There are a few issues that still have to be worked out. But it's more than playable, and they are still working on it.

 

[T'Generalissimo]

However, as Vogel says, the intention is simply to delay the pirates as long as possible, and Ubisoft might be able to do that for a little longer this time.

This is that part that I really don't understand. What do they expect to happen while they delay piracy? Are all the pirate's going to become so impatient and infuriated that they all go out and buy the game? Are they waiting for all the pirates to find religion or something and repent from their stealing ways? It's like someone at Ubisoft genuinely proposed:

1. Include draconian DRM in games.
2. Delay pirates from craking game.
3. ???
4. Profit.

And then everyone agreed that it was a sound plan.

Even if they manage to delay it for 6 months, which I highly doubt will be the case, there's no way that they'll get more sales from impatient pirates than they'll lose from alienated fans.

 

[John Funk]

If only there was a third option besides buying the game or pirating it. You know, a way to show we're not willing to bend over and take it up the pooper.
Oh wait.

... pirate it through usenet?

Don't be a pirating dickhead and just not buy the game? Is what I think he meant.

Ubisoft has done something tyrannical here, sure, but they've still got the moral high ground above pirates and thieves.

Considering other development houses are seeing fine returns by not treating their customers like criminals, they don't have the moral high ground at all.

They most certainly do, because they aren't thieves. They're being jerks and horribly shortsighted, but they're still better than pirates.

Seriously though, some people need to get off their high horses. I say f***ing someone in the ass is worse than stealing (not even an accurate term). Play nice, and you will be played nice with. And I will be the first one to laugh after their sales don't reach a hundred thousand in the first month and that whole idea just goes to the shitter, OR they cling on to it and continuously rob themselves of their own money.

You (generic you) are looking at something that cost money and hard work to produce, and is being distributed for a profit, and you are taking it for free.

That is theft. Pirates can rationalize it however they like if it makes them feel better; I have no sympathy for assholes like that.

And yes, as bad as Ubisoft is right now, Ubisoft is still >>>>>>>>> pirates.

 

[Yokai]

While I fully expect AC2 to be cracked withing a month of release, imagine how awful it would be if this actually worked. Everyone would start using this form of DRM. PC users would essentially either have to upgrade their internet connection or have their gaming options severely limited. I'm actually siding with the pirates in this case, because otherwise, we're fucked.

 

[Nova5]

"Indie RPG developer details why ubisofts DRM will be EFFECTIVE"
It's not effective if people won't buy the game because of it?
Besides, I reckon the most likely outcome will be a new IP in the windows hosts file.

Pretty much what I said. It might take more than that (no idea), but probably not by much.

snip

Don't be a pirating dickhead and just not buy the game? Is what I think he meant.

Ubisoft has done something tyrannical here, sure, but they've still got the moral high ground above pirates and thieves.

Regarding the "moral high ground" bit; honestly, I don't buy it. Just because one dick move is illegal and another isn't doesn't make one inherently better.

Also, is anyone else getting sick of the "it's for the artists!!1!" argument? It's just as misguided/inappropriate as the "think of the children!" whinging everyone did in the 90's/early 2000's. Edit: Or the whinging Australia just did recently to censor their internet. Or China. Just saying, some of the worst shit in history is done in the name of 'protecting' people.