Indie RPG Developer Details Why Ubisoft's DRM Will Be Effective

paketep

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Pirates already play the StarCraft 2 Beta.

MW2 has been hacked to be playable by pirates (though why would anyone play that POS is beyond me).

Ubi's DRM scheme will be circumvented, probably sooner rather than later. In the meantime, perhaps Ubi has managed to contain the pirates for some time, but the price they'll pay will be a lot of customers.

Beginning with me. I'm not buying anything more from them. Ever. I was tired of publishers treating me like a thief. Ubi wants to treat us like a pedophile murderer terrorist that just killed his own family and is going to blow up New York with a nuke. And all I have to say to that is: FUCK YOU, UBI.
 

paketep

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John Funk said:
You (generic you) are looking at something that cost money and hard work to produce, and is being distributed for a profit, and you are taking it for free.

That is theft. Pirates can rationalize it however they like if it makes them feel better; I have no sympathy for assholes like that.
I don't, either, but that doesn't make copyright infringement theft.

John Funk said:
And yes, as bad as Ubisoft is right now, Ubisoft is still >>>>>>>>> pirates.
I don't agree. If I pay for a game and a pirate "steals" it, I (the customer) am not being prejudiced for that.

Now, if Ubi comes with this POS, I can't play on my laptop when I'm on a trip, or at home when my router jitters (which, sadly, is a lot), and I have to have faith that they'll conserve my savegames, and that their servers will be up whenever I want to play. And I'm paying $10 more for a lot of lost rights.

Sorry, but I'd say the pirates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubi, even if you consider pirates as scum.
 

Ragnar Homsar

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Feh, I don't care about the whole DRM scheme thing. I've already pre purchased AC2 through Steam and I knew full well about this whole DRM before I pre purchased it. The servers, if they ever shut down, will probably be shut down sometime within next year or beyond. I can beat AC2 and shelve it in my Steam library long before that. And if Ubi ever has to shut down the servers, think: will they be stupid enough NOT to release a patch for that? Stupid as they have been in the past few years, I think they're full aware of all the problems and have solutions to them.

I just ignore how it'll affect other people and think about how it'll affect me. And that is: nothing. I have a stable internet, so I've just tossed this whole controversy in my "Do not Care" bin.

Also, "file sharing games" = "theft". It's equal to going into a game store and stealing a hard copy.
 

aaron552

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Ragnar Homsar said:
I just ignore how it'll affect other people and think about how it'll affect me. And that is: nothing. I have a stable internet, so I've just tossed this whole controversy in my "Do not Care" bin.
Well, my internet connection is only moderately stable at the best of times, so I DO care.

Also, "file sharing games" = "theft". It's equal to going into a game store and stealing a hard copy.
Taking a hard copy from a store involves me depriving the store of one hard copy. Downloading a digital copy of the game deprives who of what exactly?

BAD TROLL! BACK UNDER YOUR BRIDGE!
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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This isn't impossible to crack. When one of the Audiosurf demos came it let you play the full game, but just for one weekend. I know a few who made it connect to a program that made it believe it was still that weekend thus letting you play the game after the period ended. It's not impossible to bypass it as some already done it.

Commander Breetai said:
Funny, I can kind of see Ubisoft's DRM will be effective because NOBODY WILL PLAY THEIR FUCKING GAMES ANYMORE.
Actually I would say I both agree and disagree with you here. It makes it less appealing to buy their games, but I use cracks on games so I wont have to use the CD on games I own. That would mean a lot of honest players could think of using cracks to be able to play their games even when their connection goes down. If I actually liked any of the Ubisoft games I would boycott them for this though.

JMV said:
Imagine you don't have Internet, so you can't pirate the game. But if you buy it, you can't save your game. They didn't think of that, did they? (although, someone who can afford a PC and games will probably have Internet, but still...)
I didn't use to have an internet connection, for a few years I had dial-up which was my reason to play offline games, then after that I ended up with no internet connection. Now I got an internet connection, but I play mostly online and I would probably play those games mostly when my internet connection crashes. I must say they've hit pirates hard and shot themselves in the foot at the same time,

DirtyCommie said:
Pah.

Pirates will do it. Give em a week. They always find a way.
Depends if the games are good or not. Such games as Alone In The Dark should just be left to themselves.
 

aaron552

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John Funk said:
You (generic you) are looking at something that cost money and hard work to produce, and is being distributed for a profit, and you are taking it for free.
Fine. And the pirates can't or won't pay for it. The only way to prevent something being pirated is to not make it in the first place. You (and the games companies) have to accept that some piracy is inevitable. The same way supermarkets accept that some theft is inevitable. That doesn't mean grossly inconveniencing the customer is the right approach to reducing piracy/theft.

That is theft. Pirates can rationalize it however they like if it makes them feel better; I have no sympathy for assholes like that.
Is it? Then why is it not a criminal offence? Why is it not called "theft"? Why is it called "copyright infringement"? Theft isn't about taking something for free. Theft is about depriving someone of their property. Copying something belonging to someone else and giving the copies away for free isn't theft.

And yes, as bad as Ubisoft is right now, Ubisoft is still >>>>>>>>> pirates.
Being a dick is being a dick, no matter whether it's illegal or not. Unlike the pirates, Ubisoft is going out of their way to inconvenience people who are paying them money. The pirates are not paying for what they're getting. You tell me which is worse; spitting in someone's face and calling them a thief as they buy your product, or getting something for free which cost someone time and money to produce?
 

Ragnar Homsar

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aaron552 said:
Ragnar Homsar said:
I just ignore how it'll affect other people and think about how it'll affect me. And that is: nothing. I have a stable internet, so I've just tossed this whole controversy in my "Do not Care" bin.
Well, my internet connection is only moderately stable at the best of times, so I DO care.
...and why would I care about how it affects other people? If there's a bad trojan worm going around, why would I care? I've already got an internet security suite in that case, and here I have a a stable internet.

aaron552 said:
Taking a hard copy from a store involves me depriving the store of one hard copy. Downloading a digital copy of the game deprives who of what exactly?
Someone already made the point that most of AC2 is stuff Ubisoft Montreal had to pay to make. They have a right to in turn sell the game for a profit to get what they paid to make the game back. File sharing the game basically deprives the company of a profit. I mean sure, some pirates might have the common sense to go out and buy the game if they like it. But how many would actually do it?

aaron552 said:
BAD TROLL! BACK UNDER YOUR BRIDGE!
Call me a troll all you want, it doesn't change my opinion. If I have an opinion on AC2 PC's current situation, I have a right to voice it.
 

aaron552

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Ragnar Homsar said:
aaron552 said:
Ragnar Homsar said:
I just ignore how it'll affect other people and think about how it'll affect me. And that is: nothing. I have a stable internet, so I've just tossed this whole controversy in my "Do not Care" bin.
Well, my internet connection is only moderately stable at the best of times, so I DO care.
...and why would I care about how it affects other people? If there's a bad trojan worm going around, why would I care? I've already got an internet security suite in that case, and here I have a a stable internet.
Regardless of whether it affects you personally, is it right to inconvenience a paying customer while doing nothing to prevent people getting the same product for free without said inconvenience? That is what has people so upset.

aaron552 said:
Taking a hard copy from a store involves me depriving the store of one hard copy. Downloading a digital copy of the game deprives who of what exactly?
Someone already made the point that most of AC2 is stuff Ubisoft Montreal had to pay to make. They have a right to in turn sell the game for a profit to get what they paid to make the game back. File sharing the game basically deprives the company of a profit. I mean sure, some pirates might have the common sense to go out and buy the game if they like it. But how many would actually do it?
That is not the issue here. The issue is NOT whether piracy is right. It's not. But it's not theft, either. It's copyright infringement. That is something quite different. My post (above yours) outlines how it is different.

aaron552 said:
BAD TROLL! BACK UNDER YOUR BRIDGE!
Call me a troll all you want, it doesn't change my opinion. If I have an opinion on AC2 PC's current situation, I have a right to voice it.
Certainly. But your post has many logical anomalies that are symptomatic of trolls. I apologize if you were not trolling.

I suggest you go read this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7225-Experienced-Points-Piracy-Numbers
 

Ragnar Homsar

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aaron552 said:
Ragnar Homsar said:
aaron552 said:
Ragnar Homsar said:
I just ignore how it'll affect other people and think about how it'll affect me. And that is: nothing. I have a stable internet, so I've just tossed this whole controversy in my "Do not Care" bin.
Well, my internet connection is only moderately stable at the best of times, so I DO care.
...and why would I care about how it affects other people? If there's a bad trojan worm going around, why would I care? I've already got an internet security suite in that case, and here I have a a stable internet.
Regardless of whether it affects you personally, is it right to inconvenience a paying customer while doing nothing to prevent people getting the same product for free without said inconvenience? That is what has people so upset.
You have a point. I suppose if I didn't have the internet I have, I'd be on the complete opposite side of the issue. I was

aaron552 said:
That is not the issue here. The issue is NOT whether piracy is right. It's not. But it's not theft, either. It's copyright infringement. That is something quite different. My post (above yours) outlines how it is different.
I never really did have a clear line between "theft" and "copyright infringement". I read into it and found pirating games to be the latter, not the former (unless someone actually did go in and take a physical copy from a store but that's beside the point.)

aaron552 said:
Certainly. But your post has many logical anomalies that are symptomatic of trolls. I apologize if you were not trolling.
And I apologize for not wording my opinion correctly and giving off the impression of trolling.
 

T'Generalissimo

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John Funk said:
Ubisoft is still >>>>>>>>> pirates.
I'm having difficulty decideing whether I agree with you or not.

On the one hand, the pirates are screwing over developers to get something free for themselves, whereas Ubisoft are screwing over their customers to get less sales of the game for themselves. The pirates are evil, but Ubisoft is just mind-numbingly stupid.

On the other hand, Ubisoft will be making games in addition to foolish decisions, whereas the pirates aren't making anything other than the inspirations for foolish decisions.

I guess it comes down to idiots versus parasites. I think I hate them both so much that the difference is almost indistinguishable. Either way, they're both short-sighted and doing damage to the PC gaming market, so boo to both of them.
 

Gindil

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T said:
John Funk said:
Ubisoft is still >>>>>>>>> pirates.
I'm having difficulty decideing whether I agree with you or not.

On the one hand, the pirates are screwing over developers to get something free for themselves, whereas Ubisoft are screwing over their customers to get less sales of the game for themselves. The pirates are evil, but Ubisoft is just mind-numbingly stupid.

On the other hand, Ubisoft will be making games in addition to foolish decisions, whereas the pirates aren't making anything other than the inspirations for foolish decisions.

I guess it comes down to idiots versus parasites. I think I hate them both so much that the difference is almost indistinguishable. Either way, they're both short-sighted and doing damage to the PC gaming market, so boo to both of them.
Whoa... Whoa! Pirates are screwing people?

I don't think so. Firstly, piracy isn't killing any industry. After reading Shamus Young's Piracy Numbers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7225-Experienced-Points-Piracy-Numbers] I'm less inclined to believe that piracy is what's killing the industry. We've had these same woes since the days of Atari.

Second, 90% of all software is pirated. And yet, Microsoft, Blizzard, Activision, even Ubisoft, are ALL still making money. I won't say that pirates are alright in all cases, but let's look at it from a different perspective.

If the pirates are offering the superior product, people will go to that product. It's an incentive, which we respond to. When Ubisoft is telling us "we can't be trusted because we're paying for ridiculous, draconian DRM" they've just made piracy more enticing. So naturally, what's going to happen is twofold. Their sales will dwindle, piracy will increase to get away from intrusive DRM.

Another option is that people will substitute Ubi's goods for others. Maybe people will play Touhou or Cave Story, or perhaps more Modern Warfare. Regardless, to say that pirates are the only ones killing the industry when there are more mitigating factors is a little short sighted.
 

ark123

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Hopeless Bastard said:
ark123 said:
If only there was a third option besides buying the game or pirating it. You know, a way to show we're not willing to bend over and take it up the pooper.
Oh wait.
... pirate it through usenet?
I meant not buying it at all, which is what I choose to do. It's not like there's only a few decent games coming out.
 

T'Generalissimo

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Gindil said:
T said:
John Funk said:
Ubisoft is still >>>>>>>>> pirates.
I'm having difficulty decideing whether I agree with you or not.

On the one hand, the pirates are screwing over developers to get something free for themselves, whereas Ubisoft are screwing over their customers to get less sales of the game for themselves. The pirates are evil, but Ubisoft is just mind-numbingly stupid.

On the other hand, Ubisoft will be making games in addition to foolish decisions, whereas the pirates aren't making anything other than the inspirations for foolish decisions.

I guess it comes down to idiots versus parasites. I think I hate them both so much that the difference is almost indistinguishable. Either way, they're both short-sighted and doing damage to the PC gaming market, so boo to both of them.

Whoa... Whoa! Pirates are screwing people?

I don't think so. Firstly, piracy isn't killing any industry. After reading Shamus Young's Piracy Numbers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7225-Experienced-Points-Piracy-Numbers] I'm less inclined to believe that piracy is what's killing the industry. We've had these same woes since the days of Atari.

Second, 90% of all software is pirated. And yet, Microsoft, Blizzard, Activision, even Ubisoft, are ALL still making money. I won't say that pirates are alright in all cases, but let's look at it from a different perspective.

If the pirates are offering the superior product, people will go to that product. It's an incentive, which we respond to. When Ubisoft is telling us "we can't be trusted because we're paying for ridiculous, draconian DRM" they've just made piracy more enticing. So naturally, what's going to happen is twofold. Their sales will dwindle, piracy will increase to get away from intrusive DRM.

Another option is that people will substitute Ubi's goods for others. Maybe people will play Touhou or Cave Story, or perhaps more Modern Warfare. Regardless, to say that pirates are the only ones killing the industry when there are more mitigating factors is a little short sighted.
While what you're saying is mostly true, I still stand by my statement.

For starters, game developers spend time and money on making games for the purpose of selling them. You can argue that pirates aren't potential customers and that it isn't lessening sales, but they're still piggy-backing on the work of the developers; they're taking the result of that work and investment and giving nothing in return. I believe that developers deserve money for the enjoyment they provide (for the most part) and pirates are screwing them over by not doing that.

Secondly, I don't agree with Shamus' estimate of 0.9% increase in sales by stopping piracy. While there will be people who pirate for the sake of pirating or can't afford games or whatever and will never translate into sales, I've got to believe that some pirates like games and could buy them, but don't like spending money. Now, even for those people each download won't become a sale because they used to be able to download a practically infinite amount of games, whereas now their game intake is limited by their income. Even so, if you put the pirates in an environment where it's impossible to pirate and their only source of games is from buying them, I suspect a substantial number of them like games enough that they'll pay. But even if it was 0.9%, I would rather that the developers get that extra bit of money than however many multitude of pirates get to play games for free, because that's a little bit more money that encourages the production of games, whereas the pirates encourage nothing and produce nothing except maybe a culture of entitlement.

Thirdly, I never said
pirates are the only ones killing the industry
What I said was
they're [...] doing damage to the PC gaming market
Which I don't see how you can argue against. Like I said above, no piracy would translate to more sales, which would help to grow the industry at least a little bit. Also, pirates are the root cause of DRM; no pirates would mean no DRM, which would mean that I and everyone like me would be able to buy more PC games, which would mean happier customers and more money for the industry.

My point is that even if pirates only have a small direct negative impact on gaming, that's still worse than no direct negative impact. DRM probably does as much direct damage, if not more, than piracy but that's really not a reason to accept piracy; plus, since pirates are also indirectly responsible for all the damage of DRM that means...well that means I dislike pirates and they should all stop pirating.
 

Gindil

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T said:
Gindil said:
Whoa... Whoa! Pirates are screwing people?

I don't think so. Firstly, piracy isn't killing any industry. After reading Shamus Young's Piracy Numbers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7225-Experienced-Points-Piracy-Numbers] I'm less inclined to believe that piracy is what's killing the industry. We've had these same woes since the days of Atari.

Second, 90% of all software is pirated. And yet, Microsoft, Blizzard, Activision, even Ubisoft, are ALL still making money. I won't say that pirates are alright in all cases, but let's look at it from a different perspective.

If the pirates are offering the superior product, people will go to that product. It's an incentive, which we respond to. When Ubisoft is telling us "we can't be trusted because we're paying for ridiculous, draconian DRM" they've just made piracy more enticing. So naturally, what's going to happen is twofold. Their sales will dwindle, piracy will increase to get away from intrusive DRM.

Another option is that people will substitute Ubi's goods for others. Maybe people will play Touhou or Cave Story, or perhaps more Modern Warfare. Regardless, to say that pirates are the only ones killing the industry when there are more mitigating factors is a little short sighted.
While what you're saying is mostly true, I still stand by my statement.

For starters, game developers spend time and money on making games for the purpose of selling them. You can argue that pirates aren't potential customers and that it isn't lessening sales, but they're still piggy-backing on the work of the developers; they're taking the result of that work and investment and giving nothing in return. I believe that developers deserve money for the enjoyment they provide (for the most part) and pirates are screwing them over by not doing that.
Good point. Not arguing this one. I believe the same and most piracy is parasitic in nature.

Secondly, I don't agree with Shamus' estimate of 0.9% increase in sales by stopping piracy. While there will be people who pirate for the sake of pirating or can't afford games or whatever and will never translate into sales, I've got to believe that some pirates like games and could buy them, but don't like spending money. Now, even for those people each download won't become a sale because they used to be able to download a practically infinite amount of games, whereas now their game intake is limited by their income. Even so, if you put the pirates in an environment where it's impossible to pirate and their only source of games is from buying them, I suspect a substantial number of them like games enough that they'll pay. But even if it was 0.9%, I would rather that the developers get that extra bit of money than however many multitude of pirates get to play games for free, because that's a little bit more money that encourages the production of games, whereas the pirates encourage nothing and produce nothing except maybe a culture of entitlement.
I agree somewhat but feel that this forgets older/nostalgic gamers. For certain systems, it's downright impossible to find games for such as the Neo Geo, SNES, or Atari (reason: Gamestop stops taking these and there's only a few game places that are third party to carry these.) Granted, there have been remakes of games but it's still a crap shoot of looking in garage sales to find treasured gems.

That said, I'm not taking everything that Shamus Young's article as a gospel truth. I mainly bring this up to say that game developers are accounting for this and continue to make money to be successful within the gaming industry. I mean honestly, when you're looking at statistics, who's more likely to play games? Who has the income? An engineer who's just had an 18 hour day is more likely to play a more complex game (WoW) versus a 15 year old who only has so much time to get better at a game (Modern Warfare or a JRPG). Of the two, I'd say the 15 yr old is more likely to pirate in some forms since he wants to try a few games. He wouldn't be a consumer otherwise, but he might be a consumer later on when his income increases. I can't say for certain that every pirate learns their lesson. But eventually, some do, [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_189/5757-Pirates-Anonymous] me included. There was a time that I liked playing pirated games. Arcade games I grew up on. Lost games that I couldn't find such as Bloody Wolf. Even a few XBox games because it was there. But nowadays, I don't play as many games, but I can relate to both sides of the argument.

Thirdly, I never said
pirates are the only ones killing the industry
What I said was
they're [...] doing damage to the PC gaming market
Which I don't see how you can argue against. Like I said above, no piracy would translate to more sales, which would help to grow the industry at least a little bit. Also, pirates are the root cause of DRM; no pirates would mean no DRM, which would mean that I and everyone like me would be able to buy more PC games, which would mean happier customers and more money for the industry.
My apologies. I got the quote wrong.

I will have to note that though the root cause of DRM is because of piracy, I doubt that the PC gaming industry would be this happy fun place. There would still be shovelware, freeware, mods, and various diverse effects to alter the PC industry. I think of it this way: with a console, what you see is what you get. With a PC, you can make something entirely brand new from one aspect of a game. Examples: slapping Morrigan in Dragon Age is pretty big [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWgX04MjZz4] or visiting Black Mesa [http://www.blackmesasource.com/] which aren't possible on the console market because of patent laws, trademark laws or whatever. Mainly, this is to show that piracy isn't the only reason that PC gaming seems to have dwindled in comparison to console gaming, nothing more.

My point is that even if pirates only have a small direct negative impact on gaming, that's still worse than no direct negative impact. DRM probably does as much direct damage, if not more, than piracy but that's really not a reason to accept piracy; plus, since pirates are also indirectly responsible for all the damage of DRM that means...well that means I dislike pirates and they should all stop pirating.
IIRC, the main reason Marth was added to SSBB was the fact that he had fans that were quite vocal about Fire Emblem. You can't play Mother 3 unless you get it off of the internet. There's been projects to make SSBB a fairly balanced game with less chain combos for King Dedede, and better moves for Ganon. The going thing about the 90s was the fact that piracy prevented major companies from expanding games into other territories. It wasn't a fact. People are STILL waiting for Mother 3 to come to the US except for the copyright issues of a game that took a lot of music from various areas. And believe me, even though I have the game in a sense, I would go out and buy that + a DS in a heartbeat because I am that much of an Earthbound fanboy.

Anyway, back to the DRM. My main argument is the fact that DRM doesn't do anything but prohibit people future enjoyment of a game. Ubi's tactic of taking away a person's ability to save except on their server, their ability to shut down a game not even factoring in latency, even their decision to market this as one of their better ideas... It all rings as too much stick and not enough carrot. If they had an MMO that they were working on for Assassin's Creed, I may understand some of the DRM they have in store for the public. Sadly, right now, this is too intrusive for what they need, which is a clue as to why people won't want this in large numbers.

I'm not trying to convince you that pirates are good or bad in no way shape or form. I merely believe that piracy is constantly used as a scapegoat for poor executive decisions. 90% piracy isn't really hurting the industry from growing. Rather, it's being used to tell us what we can do with the choices we make in how we spend our money.
 

T'Generalissimo

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Gindil said:
I merely believe that piracy is constantly used as a scapegoat for poor executive decisions.
Oh, I absolutely agree with you. Unfortunately, the flipside is that poor executive decisions are constantly used as a justification for piracy.

The real kick in the balls is that it's me (and people like me) who suffers most because of it; my options are either to pirate games, abandon control of my computer to DRM or stop playing certain PC games. Well, *sigh*, I guess humanity still hasn't evolved stupidity away, I'll just keep waiting.
 

xDarc

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People are saying the world will be a happy place if pirates stopped sharing video games? Too bad it will never stop, now we'll never be delivered to the promised land where everyone game that comes out is gold, and each studio puts out several per year. Never mind that publishers will continue to look for ways to screw everyone whether piracy exists or not. These people make enough money already and I don't feel one bit sorry for them.
 

brunothepig

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I think he's massively underestimating pirates. I don't really know anything specific about pirating, but couldn't you just set the game to think it's connected, and then send the save files to the program files rather than a server? Wouldn't take long.