Indie RPG Veteran: "Being Nice" Prevents Piracy Better Than Draconian DRM

Paragon Fury

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Jan 23, 2009
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Except that there has been more than one instance of this failing.

Or have we forgotten the Steam Charity Sale event and how badly Stardock has gotten reamed on piracy and cracked copies of Sins of Solar Empire, even Stardock has one of the most lax and "nice" policies out there.

You don't get things by being nice to everyone. You get things done by rewarding people who are nice to you and follow the rules even when someone isn't watching or when they can get away with it, and by doing everything short of murdering those don't.
 

Katana314

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Action needs to be taken on the part of pirates, not developers, for anything to change.

World of Goo had a 90% piracy rate. That is all you need to know. As long as there is no difference in consumer response when DRM is scaled back, logical companies will use DRM, and loads of it.
 

draythefingerless

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lot of people mentioning world of goo as an example that games get better sales with DRM over installed.....seriously, wether the game had DRM or not, it would of gotten a high rate of pirating. Spore had huge DRM, and it got pirated like a ************.

oh, i also love th 90% and the 75% figures for piracy. where the fuck you guys getting those numbers?
do you realize it is impossible to even grasp a close ESTIMATE to what level of piracy a game has?
 

Jaeger_CDN

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How many instances have we seen where the DRM version of a game is actually worse off than something pirated. I'm not saying we should pirate games but companies should look at what they're really trying to accomplish. A recent example would be when Ubi's AC2 DRM servers were being DDoS'd and the pirates had their own working copies, then the next game they pumped out (Silent Hunter 5) was hacked even before it came out the door. I believe even their Settler's 7 game was broken for a ton of people because of their alway-online DRM.

It's also not pirates they're trying to stop since everyone knows DRM only impacts the honest people, DRM is meant to curb used sales (as is the stupid day 1 DLC).

BTW I'm buying The Witcher 2 specifically from GOG because they're not using DRM
 

awesome_ninja

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remember what happened to World of Goo? *pause* ... People will always find excuses =(
Personally, I love Steam's DRM: log in, play your game assuming your client is up to date, which shouldn't be too hard if you live in civilized countries
 

Doctor Glocktor

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draythefingerless said:
do you realize it is impossible to even grasp a close ESTIMATE to what level of piracy a game has?
Thats FAR from a good thing, and only serves to prove how wrong piracy is more.
 

draythefingerless

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Doctor Glocktor said:
draythefingerless said:
do you realize it is impossible to even grasp a close ESTIMATE to what level of piracy a game has?
Thats FAR from a good thing, and only serves to prove how wrong piracy is more.
not the point, only pointing out how utterly foolish it is to spout out numbers that have no meaning in an attmept to make a point across.
 

cfehunter

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It seems that the industry is slowly (VERY slowly) learning that DRM just isn't worth it.

There isn't a form of DRM to date that hasn't been cracked (including ubisoft's abomination of an online DRM implementation). The pirates play the games without any ill effects while paying customers have to deal with a host of technical problems.

Developers should just give us a serial for online play and save themselves the money. Pirates will be unable to play online and everybody else has a smooth an experience as possible.

Until they learn, I personally crack every game I buy that I can't buy through steam, impulse or GOG. I still paid for the game, but the crack strips out the DRM and alleviates most problems, best of both worlds.
 

immortalfrieza

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May 12, 2011
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I think that the biggest issue with piracy is just how easy it is for dedicated hackers to do. If you're going to make a game, at least put some real effort into making it piracy proof. All too often a game developer just have a platform of games with basically the same generic copy protections with minimal changes at best. For example, PC games have CD keys and code that makes sure that you have the actual CD/DVD in a disc drive that require you to have actually purchased the game to play it, but via virtual CD/DVD mounting and cracking these were broken through as a viable protection years ago. Yet these copy protections are still being widely used, and I see no signs of them being replaced with more effective protection in the near future. As a result, someone that can pirate one game on a platform probably can pirate the whole lot with little trouble, I've gone to torrent sites (yes, I do use torrents on occasion, though only for older games and other media that I would have a hard and expensive time getting my hands on, as I want to them to continue making said media) and seen games that have very recently been released already having been pirated.

While it is true that any sort of protection can and will inevitably be hacked and pirated regardless, at least try to make it difficult for them. If you did this well, it'll takes weeks, months or even years for the hackers to pirate your game, and by then, aside from the occasional unit here and there, you'll probably have sold as many of that particular game as you ever will, and most of the rest that get sold will probably be used copies you don't get money for anyway so your profit margins won't be much effected.

As for the original poster topic, indie developers are so nice to their customers because not only are their expenses smaller to make games, but because it's really the only ammo they have against piracy. The indies can't afford to develop one effective copy protection after another or to strong arm and screw over people to protect their game's copyright like the triple A companies can, so, the idies try to get people to want to come back again and again. If the indies tried to protect their copyrights the way triple A companies do, practically EVERYBODY would pirate their games and hardly anyone would pay for them, they would lose everything, while triple A companies don't really need to worry about pirating because even to a dedicated hacker it's much harder to pirate them.
 

fenrizz

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manythings said:
BrotherRool said:
It depends, but we've seen lots of companies be nice and be punished. Remember World of Goo? In the end you lose whatever you do
And the humble indie bundle. Some people willl just asshole it up no matter what you do. I'd say partial obscurity helped and if he was immensely well known I don't think it would've worked out so well.
But if he was immensely well known, then more people would buy his game too.
Works both ways.

More legitimate customers, more pirates.
 

Tom Phoenix

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Mar 28, 2009
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[sarcasm] Being nice and not inconveniencing your paying customers is a better detriment to piracy than DRM? What a shocking and unexpected discovery! This must a revolution![/sarcasm]

Also, for people pointing at "World of Goo", you're kind of missing the point. The idea isn't that being nice is going to prevent piracy (ultimately, nothing will). The idea is that, since games are going to get pirated anyway, your best bet is to be nice to your paying customers and thus ensure maximum number of sales. Draconian DRM only ends up driving away the people that do pay for your games.

Not that it matters, since "World of Goo" isn't exactly a good counterexample to begin with. Afterall, the game was a big commercial success and one of the rare enormous hits among indie developers in spite of the high piracy rate.
 

SinisterGehe

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"Poor man is richer than the Rich man"
Fits to this topic in my opinion...
But yeah DRM is some times is just stupid. Once DRM totally broke my whole computer, because according to it USB Dvd-player is illegal device and should be shutdown, guess from where I was reading the DvD on my laptop.
 

Aeshi

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Dec 22, 2009
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Tell that to World of Goo and the Humble Indie Bundles.

Also: Spiderweb released a new game? WANT!
 

Wuffykins

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Question: Where are all these Piracy statistics coming from anyway? Call me a strange fellow here, but I'm kind of sure there's no 'click here to tell the developers you're pirating this game' button or checkbox if someone decides to torrent something. Then again, I'm not privy to the workings of the private, scenester-esque trackers out there, so I may be speaking out of my blindingly white ass here (I am aware of the Indie Bundle fiasco, and I can understand how their figures add up. I'm asking about all the other figures thrown about, ie World of Goo in the context of this thread).

Now as much as I would like to go off on the idea of 'being nice' and yet again try to implement cannons as a tried and true method of dealing with piracy (think about it, it may just be the answer), I'd rather just say I'm liking the sound of this guy's horn. Going past the fact he's got another game coming out (cue giddyness on my part), he has certainly got a point there. As an easy going individual I'm quite good at keeping my cool and calm if I'm being treated rudely at a cafe or store, but chances are I'll decide to opt out on a second visit when it comes around. As for purchasing games why should I act otherwise? If I'm not buying a game for my PSP I'm usually browsing GOG or Steam, though even with Steam I've said no to a couple of specials thanks to some extra DRM the developer/publisher didn't want to get rid of.
 

Realitycrash

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Fr said:
anc[is]*Completely disregards piracy discussion* There's a new Spiderweb game? :D
My thoughts exactly. Oh, Jeff <3 I'v followed your games ever since the original Geneforge (and that game was damn innovative).
 

MasterV

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Tom Phoenix said:
[sarcasm] Being nice and not inconveniencing your paying customers is a better detriment to piracy than DRM? What a shocking and unexpected discovery! This must a revolution![/sarcasm]

Also, for people pointing at "World of Goo", you're kind of missing the point. The idea isn't that being nice is going to prevent piracy (ultimately, nothing will). The idea is that, since games are going to get pirated anyway, your best bet is to be nice to your paying customers and thus ensure maximum number of sales. Draconian DRM only ends up driving away the people that do pay for your games.

Not that it matters, since "World of Goo" isn't exactly a good counterexample to begin with. Afterall, the game was a big commercial success and one of the rare enormous hits among indie developers in spite of the high piracy rate.
Finally, someone who speaks sense.

People, wake up. Piracy is a given. Like it or not, some people WILL pirate a game. The dilemma is, will you spend lots and lots of money on DRM and face reduced sales, or have no DRM, live with piracy and enjoy healthy sales IN SPITE of it?