Innovating in Hack 'n Slash

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WhiteFangofWhoa

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Jan 11, 2008
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Primarily in response to the latest Extra Punctuation, explaining why the 'Like God of War But' sticker exists. Admittedly things like GoW and Devil May Cry are some of my favorite kinds to play, and lots of developers feel the same way because even Castlevania is subscribing to the same formula despite predating it by more than a decade. It's fun. It just can't help but feel played-out when every developer does it (see: RTSes in the 1990s).

What sort of innovations would you advocate for future 'LGOWB' or Hack n Slash games?
 

oplinger

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Sep 2, 2010
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More explosions.

Like, really less sexy graphics, and just more shit on the screen. That's what I like. and strangely so few games do it. >.>
 

Lord Beautiful

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Aug 13, 2008
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There doesn't seem to be much room for innovation short of a drastic overhaul. That said, I think the next big evil to tackle is the camera, which needs fine-tuning to prevent off-screen cheap shots.
 

Sleekgiant

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Jan 21, 2010
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Some of the IPs need to die off, namely ones with shitty combat(i.e. all hack and slashes that are not God of War) and the camera from hell needs to be tamed.
 

Cogwheel

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Apr 3, 2010
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Well, I had an idea for a game in that vein, if it counts. Fuse this genre with, say, Diablo 2. This adds loot and character customization, probably in talent tree form. It's also made for co-op of... oh, I don't know. Up to four people? Wait, no, don't run yet.

It's essentially a mythological crossover. Say... get Norse, Egyptian, Greek, Celtic and old Japanese mythology in there? Offers a bunch of stuff, three are well-known, two are neat, and none of them offend anyone.

I suppose it's hard to pick a unifying villain. In light of that, I suggest that you have two campaigns (as well as normal hack-and-slash mode where you can mix and match as you see fit). In one, you play characters from Team Evil (Norse giants, Greek titans, Izanami, Unseelie Court, Set etc.) while in the other, you play Team Merely Morally Highly Questionable (Zeus, Thor, Zeus, any faerie ever, Zeus, etc.) Whichever you play, they get their own levels, and fights against members of the other team.

Now, where does the RPG aspect get justified? Well, whichever team you're playing, at the start of the game, they get de-powered by the other team. And their gear is lost. Said power is then absorbed by the opposition. This is why stuff like Cerberus is an adequate boss fight, the gods you fight are giant unstoppable juggernauts, and you have to run around regaining your power. Lower-level mythological beasts... okay, those are still mooks.

The talent trees represent regaining power and replacing it in some of your portfolios. For instance, as Apollo, you could invest into sun magic, archery or music (group buffs?). Maybe you could use your flaming chariot to run mooks over?

Equipment is thus explained too. You'd have to settle for lower-grade stuff at first, mind you. Ares might have to compromise and use, say, Achilles's sword or something? Maybe having one weapon/suit of armour and upgrading it over time would work better.

DLC ideas include Mayan/Incan, Native American and Slavic mythology. Lovecraftian if someone insists on it, but it wouldn't work that well.

Sorry if this isn't what you meant. Have a stupid wall of text and bad ideas that no one will read anyway.
 

oplinger

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Sleekgiant said:
Some of the IPs need to die off, namely ones with shitty combat(i.e. all hack and slashes that are not God of War) and the camera from hell needs to be tamed.
...So wait diablo 2 had shitty combat? :( Really. Can you explain to me how mashing square is better than diablo 2?
 

Sleekgiant

Redlin5 made my title :c
Jan 21, 2010
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oplinger said:
Sleekgiant said:
Some of the IPs need to die off, namely ones with shitty combat(i.e. all hack and slashes that are not God of War) and the camera from hell needs to be tamed.
...So wait diablo 2 had shitty combat? :( Really. Can you explain to me how mashing square is better than diablo 2?
I was only refering to console games, like DMC, god I hate that game :mad:
 

khaimera

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Jun 23, 2009
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We need more games involving fruit, vegetables, and animals. Would improve all genres really.
 

Azaraxzealot

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when i hit something... i want to see limbs flying, intestines spilling out, and all that stuff even with the smaller enemies, i want to see this level of detail.

when i hit something, i want it to have some weight and impact.

im tired of playing hack-n-slashers where i hit shit and it doesnt look like im doing any damage until they fall over. when im using giant swords or weapons attached to chains, i want to FEEL like im hitting my enemis with giant swords attached to chains
 

hittite

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Nov 9, 2009
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I want to have so many enemies that I can create a river from their blood and then dam it with their corpses and use it to wipe out a village of other enemies.

I'm gonna go seek psychiatric help now.
 

Durxom

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May 12, 2009
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Sleekgiant said:
oplinger said:
Sleekgiant said:
Some of the IPs need to die off, namely ones with shitty combat(i.e. all hack and slashes that are not God of War) and the camera from hell needs to be tamed.
...So wait diablo 2 had shitty combat? :( Really. Can you explain to me how mashing square is better than diablo 2?
I was only refering to console games, like DMC, god I hate that game :mad:
Wait...wth o-O

How does DMC have shitty combat compared to GoW?

If anything, its better because of the complexity and combos. Your logic has me confused (@ _ @)
 

Macheteswordgun

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Jul 24, 2010
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Wait a second guys......... 2 buttons one for heavy one for light.... wb.... now stay with me..... a 3rd for medium!!!!! mind=blown.
 

Cogwheel

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Apr 3, 2010
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Personally, I'd like less gore and general supposedly "mature" elements in these games. It's what stops me from playing a great deal of them. I may be 18, but I prefer games that are at least somewhat kid-friendly.

I am a very silly person, yes.

New idea: Hack 'n Slash Kirby game.
 

oplinger

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Sep 2, 2010
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Macheteswordgun said:
Wait a second guys......... 2 buttons one for heavy one for light.... wb.... now stay with me..... a 3rd for medium!!!!! mind=blown.
You sir, should win a prize.

...I don't know what, as I haven't any prizes. But you deserve one.
 

PureIrony

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Aug 12, 2010
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Aerial combat in hack'n'slashers are usually a bust. Maybe some innovation there?

Tactical elements, like varying attack styles(attack quickly against slow enemies, counter quick enemies, etc.). Messing with the environment isn't used enough in games, period.

But really, there needs to be more variation in this genre.
 

Sleekgiant

Redlin5 made my title :c
Jan 21, 2010
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Durxom said:
Sleekgiant said:
oplinger said:
Sleekgiant said:
Some of the IPs need to die off, namely ones with shitty combat(i.e. all hack and slashes that are not God of War) and the camera from hell needs to be tamed.
...So wait diablo 2 had shitty combat? :( Really. Can you explain to me how mashing square is better than diablo 2?
I was only refering to console games, like DMC, god I hate that game :mad:
Wait...wth o-O

How does DMC have shitty combat compared to GoW?

If anything, its better because of the complexity and combos. Your logic has me confused (@ _ @)
I played it and hated every minute of that mediocre smack fest, combos are button mashes and Nero/Dante can both die in an unholy fire to cleanse their douchiness from this earth.
 

Jkudo

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Aug 17, 2010
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Macheteswordgun said:
Wait a second guys......... 2 buttons one for heavy one for light.... wb.... now stay with me..... a 3rd for medium!!!!! mind=blown.
You just revolutionised hack and slash.
I think usually a game is better if there is more of a method to the hacking and slashing, like how you control the guns at the end of a combo. Just more of buttons having the affect you expect them to and allowing you to be dazzled by combos that you create, but seriously add a third button.The game should give the player a greater feeling of control, like they are pulling off these incredible moves and intending to do so_OH and if you are going to do QTE's then take the time to make them more interactive, no reason you can't enjoy the spectacle and have a bigger part in it.
 

s0m3th1ng

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Aug 29, 2010
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Azaraxzealot said:
when i hit something... i want to see limbs flying, intestines spilling out, and all that stuff even with the smaller enemies, i want to see this level of detail.

when i hit something, i want it to have some weight and impact.

im tired of playing hack-n-slashers where i hit shit and it doesnt look like im doing any damage until they fall over. when im using giant swords or weapons attached to chains, i want to FEEL like im hitting my enemis with giant swords attached to chains
This...realistically modeled location-based damage. Take destructible terrain, add it to character models...and have the most viciously intense combat ever. Armor (And bone) will turn weapons, or break if hit hard enough. Soft flesh will part like a razor across your jugular. A belly slash will result in spilled entrails. Your sword will get stuck in enemies. Realistic blood content. Complete gore fest... at the end of every battle you will set up a slip-and-slide in your enemy's viscera.
 

Scars Unseen

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May 7, 2009
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Anyone remember The Mark of Kri? I loved how different buttons were assigned to different enemies, and the rest was just positioning. I want an evolution of that kind of gameplay.