Intel CFO Says its Tech is "so Far Ahead", Apple Needs it to Keep up

[CrystalShadow]

Eh. it's a bit arrogant of them to say so, but they're kind of right.

At least, if apple goes it alone they may really struggle.

AMD kind of keeps up, but not really all that well...

Still, I'm one of those weirdos that likes to combine an ati (sorry. AMD. XD) GPU with an intel CPU...
Nvidia... Eh. Haven't had an nvidia based system in... 14 years...

 

[J Tyran]

You are correct that for the PCs we make heat isn't that much of an issue, but it seems for Apple they like making everything small and compact, looking at the new 5k Retina iMac I think heat could become an issue. Of course I could always be wrong.

Heats an issue with the new iMac as it is on the higher spec models, like the models with the i7 4970K. It idles at 50°C and never gets chance to turbo because the fan curve is set to minimise noise, the temperature soon hits 80-90°C in ten seconds or so. Within a minute its at 100°C and throttling itself.

Instead of running at the typical 4.5GHz it would in a well cooled PC with turbo boost it runs at around 3.5-4GHz because of the thermal throttling, like you and others said Apples industrial design concentrates on issues like aesthetics and noise and it shows here. Mind you the new iMac is a stunningly beautiful piece of hardware.

 

[Albino Boo]

I bet Foxconn is jumping for joy at this news.

The Apple chips used to be manufactured by Samsung but are now manufactured by a Taiwanese outfit known as TSMC. Mainland Chinese industry does not have the capacity to use the 20 nm process and is stuck in the 32nm-28 nm range.

Remember when AMD was the top dog in gaming?

Ah...halcyon days, indeed. Getting a bit tired of Intel's persistent dominance in the market. AMD's really been dropping the ball for the past, what, decade now?

AMD are not trying to beat Intel. They long ago settled for competing in the low to mid range PC chip markets. Their aim has been value for money rather than trying to go head to head with Intel on pure power.

 

[Sampler]

Hmm, Intel don't seem to understand their customer - they'd lose power and performance, that's not Apple's core target. It's customers don't understand chips (to a large majority) too.

So long as the new Mac is sold as x faster than the last one they'll buy it because it's a Mac and it just works and they just don't have to think about such things.

Not that I overly care, half the fun of a new machine is piecing it together than tweaking the most out of it.

 

[ASnogarD]

I actually hope AMD's Mantle API gets some serious purchase into the market and manages to convince nVidia to join up (cold day in hell :/) as this would wake Microsoft up PC gaming wise (snowflakes in hell ?), instead of trying to turn PC gamers PC's into companion devices for the XBox1 (seriously MS, PC gamers are not that interested in more ways to interact with their Xbox1, even those who own a Xbox1).

 

[Tsun Tzu]

AMD are not trying to beat Intel. They long ago settled for competing in the low to mid range PC chip markets. Their aim has been value for money rather than trying to go head to head with Intel on pure power.

AMD has demonstrated that they aren't really capable of beating Intel at present, in terms of processor power.

As you said, they've settled for low to mid range. If you honestly think AMD wouldn't love to be the top dog right now, then I don't really know what to tell you.

Hell, their recent efforts with the 9370 and 9590, Vishera chips (for some damned reason), to break back into the high end market haven't panned out at all. Their initial asking price was ridiculous (For that performance?! And that amount of heat/power consumption?) and has since been utterly gutted.

Don't get me wrong. They're fine for a cheap build, but I truly do miss the competition at the top, or even mid-high, end.

Edit: Rereading this, it seems to come off a bit aggressive. ._. Not at all my intention. Lamenting consistent pricey Intel stuff, more like.

 

[Doom972]

If apple will use ARM CPUs for their computers it would kill gaming for macs, which would be a shame since in the last few years game support for macs has become much more common due to Valve's initiative to add mac support on Steam.

 

[Strazdas]

Apple wont break parthnership. There simply is no real alternative.

Well that's what happens when you have a monopoly, though to be fair that's more AMD's fault then Intel's.

How's it AMD's fault? Intel's the company that pulls dodgy unethical shit over and over again. They pay companies to use only their chips, they bribe them to delay the release or to not release AMD powered laptops, they threatened to do stop bribing companies if they started working with AMD as well.

They were also allegedly part of the group of Silicon Valley companies that agreed not to try to recruit each others employees, which is effectively theft.

Furthermore, they also falsified benchmarks by creating benchmarking software, and using it to inflate results.

It's not AMDs fault that intel keeps pulling shady shit over and over again and extorting and bribing companies so that they don't use AMD.

Its AMDs fault for doing fuck all in their Processor technology.

Intel has doubled its IPC while AMD hasnt changed it in a decade.
Intel has 22nm dyes and are going for 14 nm ones. AMD is stuck at 32nm.

AMD is basically stuck in 2008 and attempting to solve all problems by "just throw more cores into it". It, obviously, fails to solve real problems.

you really cant bribe people to use your CPUs. especially when they are the more expensive ones.

Also you speak as if AMD hasnt pulled its share of shady stuff.

Which can plainly never be done, AMD is 1/100th the size of Intel and they are 1/100th the size of Nvidia yet they are expected to keep up with both (surpass them even). They haven't got the money to throw at every tasty developer and carve themselves a performance exclusivity, you need lots of spare cash for that nonsense.

Or, as in the case of Watch Doge, they are invited to develop for performance and instead decides to throw a public temper tantrum. Its hardly Nvidias fault that AMD sucks at working with developers. Not that Nvidia is that great either nowadays. Disabling Nvidia exclusive features in Dieing Light almost doubles the framerate.

Remember when AMD was the top dog in gaming?

Ah...halcyon days, indeed. Getting a bit tired of Intel's persistent dominance in the market. AMD's really been dropping the ball for the past, what, decade now?

Last time i favored AMD CPU over Intel CPU was 2003, so yeah, a decade indeed. I really would like to see AMD get better, it would make Intel and Nvidia push the limit more in return because lately they seem to have slowed down due to lack of competition.

 

[Albino Boo]

AMD has demonstrated that they aren't really capable of beating Intel at present, in terms of processor power.

As you said, they've settled for low to mid range. If you honestly think AMD wouldn't love to be the top dog right now, then I don't really know what to tell you.

Hell, their recent efforts with the 9370 and 9590, Vishera chips (for some damned reason), to break back into the high end market haven't panned out at all. Their initial asking price was ridiculous (For that performance?! And that amount of heat/power consumption?) and has since been utterly gutted.

Don't get me wrong. They're fine for a cheap build, but I truly do miss the competition at the top, or even mid-high, end.

Edit: Rereading this, it seems to come off a bit aggressive. ._. Not at all my intention. Lamenting consistent pricey Intel stuff, more like.

I know AMD isn't trying to be top dog, last time they tried they lost money for two straight years and causing the CEO to be fired. Intel have the brand image and the supplier contracts in place and AMD haven't got the money to compete. Personally I put the 9370, 9590, and Vishera chips in the mid range because they are there or thereabouts with the i5 not the i7.

 

[Smooth Operator]

I actually hope AMD's Mantle API gets some serious purchase into the market and manages to convince nVidia to join up (cold day in hell :/)

That is a terrible idea, the only reason AMD started this nonsense is because Nvidia is pushing exclusive features into games so they will always have a better footing.
Mantle was made to run for AMD and AMD only, if it takes off Nvidia sure as fuck won't start playing the other guys game, they will double down on theirs and make even more radically hardware dependent games... wouldn't take much for the PC market to start getting it's own hardware exclusives.

 

[ASnogarD]

I actually hope AMD's Mantle API gets some serious purchase into the market and manages to convince nVidia to join up (cold day in hell :/)

That is a terrible idea, the only reason AMD started this nonsense is because Nvidia is pushing exclusive features into games so they will always have a better footing.
Mantle was made to run for AMD and AMD only, if it takes off Nvidia sure as fuck won't start playing the other guys game, they will double down on theirs and make even more radically hardware dependent games... wouldn't take much for the PC market to start getting it's own hardware exclusives.

From my understanding its a common interface API which even MS has taken part of (and put into DX12), and nVidia was invited to participate in developing along with the OpenGL crowd, it isn't a case of AMD coding it all and everyone else has to toe the line (like DX).

nVidia would have more benefits working with AMD to make this common interface than working with MS and DX, MS after all has a massive conflict of interest regarding PC as a gaming platform whereas nVidia and AMD rely on PC being considered a valid platform.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Or, as in the case of Watch Doge, they are invited to develop for performance and instead decides to throw a public temper tantrum. Its hardly Nvidias fault that AMD sucks at working with developers.

Yeah those bastards at AMD, can't even afford to co-develop all major titles. Barely hanging on to their company after having taken in ATI at it's breaking point and shortly there after loosing their only production facility, now renting that space at the good graces of a Saudi billionaire.
Can't even take their time to develop everyone else's stuff, what idiots...

 

[J Tyran]

Or, as in the case of Watch Doge, they are invited to develop for performance and instead decides to throw a public temper tantrum. Its hardly Nvidias fault that AMD sucks at working with developers.

Yeah those bastards at AMD, can't even afford to co-develop all major titles. Barely hanging on to their company after having taken in ATI at it's breaking point and shortly there after loosing their only production facility, now renting that space at the good graces of a Saudi billionaire.
Can't even take their time to develop everyone else's stuff, what idiots...

A lot of the people that get angry at Nvidia don't seem to understand that Nvidia are not "bribing" developers they are just offering some tangible benefits that are attractive for them, Nvidias gameworks are to AAA developers what the Unity engine and assets are to indies.

It allows them to integrate features and graphical FX quickly and cheaply, cutting costs will always be attractive to developers. Its not like AMD didn't try the same, Nvidias features are often more attractive due to their ubiquitous and commonly (overly?) used nature. A fire effect will always be more desirable than a fancy hair effect in most cases, especially when the hardware can already do fancy object physics natively in the first place.

 

[Verlander]

They'd be dumb to do it, but if anyone has the money to, it's Apple

 

[lassiie]

I find it quite hilarious that anyone here thinks Intel even cares about Apple. I would guess that products that are sold to consumers are an extremely small portion of Intel's revenue. Intel has been working government/private contracts for years that are way more advanced then anything a consumer will ever use. The only reason Intel got involved with Apple was for public perception, so people would be like "oooh, Intel makes chips for Apple, they must be successful". This is the main difference between Intel and AMD. Intel treats the consumer market as an after thought, because they are working with much more advanced technology for other entities, whereas the consumer market is all AMD has.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

I firmly doubt Apple will break from Intel's architecture. If it would be cheaper, they could license the the design and make their own x86 chips, like they do with the ARM chips, but I doubt we'll see iMacs or Mac Pros with an A8X (or beyond) processor in the foreseeable future.

Apple users already had to suffer through 2 processor changeovers in the past 20 years, with to jump from Motorola 68000 to PowerPC in 1994 and to x86 in 2005. There is also the switch from OS 9 to OS X that I hear was not kind to some people (mostly because of driver issues). While their PC division pales in comparison to the money iCrap and itunes is reeling in, I would imagine they still do not want to lose customers by making them have to completely re-buy otherwise reusable software packages and risk compatibility issues when it comes time to buy new Macs.

Though, there is a possibility they might make the low end (Is that even a thing?) Macs, such as Macbooks, Mac Minis and smaller iMacs (Maybe they would even make a tablet/laptop hybrid.), use ARM architecture with a custom compiled OS X/iOS hybrid, just to try and get more people to join Jobs' loving family. It would be like the failed Microsoft Surface (not the Surface Pro) tablets that used ARM instead of x86. Probably wont happen, but everyone is the hardware business has some gimmick they've tried to get more customers and/or save money.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

If CFO means what I think it means, why are they making the announcement? Shouldn't it be their Chief Technology Officer (CTO) that they send out to do this sort of 'shots fired' bullshit about their tech?

 

[Pinky's Brain]

Unless Apple buys the IBM foundry business, GloFo or UMC and spends a decade or so building them up to become competitive with Intel process wise they're stuck with Intel.

 

[Strazdas]

Or, as in the case of Watch Doge, they are invited to develop for performance and instead decides to throw a public temper tantrum. Its hardly Nvidias fault that AMD sucks at working with developers.

Yeah those bastards at AMD, can't even afford to co-develop all major titles. Barely hanging on to their company after having taken in ATI at it's breaking point and shortly there after loosing their only production facility, now renting that space at the good graces of a Saudi billionaire.
Can't even take their time to develop everyone else's stuff, what idiots...

AMD was invited to help optimize the code to make it work better on their cards. Nvidia was invited too. Nvidia showed up, AMD didnt. Instead, when game realesed AMD cried wolf and claimed that Ubi had exclusive deal with Nvidia, which was quickly proven to be wrong.

So yes, hardly Nvidias fault that AMD cant keep up the game.

AMD is afloat pretty much by its hardcore fans and bitcoin miners money now it seems.

And yes, it is up to AMD to fix their drivers, not game developers.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

Remember when AMD was the top dog in gaming?

Ah...halcyon days, indeed. Getting a bit tired of Intel's persistent dominance in the market. AMD's really been dropping the ball for the past, what, decade now?

Depends. At least here in Switzerland i just pay for the same power AMD gives me around 30-40% more if i want an Intel product.
For midrange Pc's around 1'000-1'500.- Chf AMD has a better price/power ratio.