Intel Strategy Shuts Out PC Enthusiasts

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Aikayai

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May 31, 2011
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Does no one realize that AMD will be going bust within 2 years or less? This is why Intel is making its move. Share prices for AMD are so cheap now that you could be working at a fast food joint and buy shares weekly (Since they're dying slowly its hard to see this as a good investment).
 

Signa

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aceman67 said:
I'll stick with my AMD system, thank you.

Intel has been on the Bleeding edge of performance but AMD has always been quality merchandise.
You can say that now, but you weren't stuck with one of their first-ever chips like my dad was. An AMD 120MHZ laptop was a slug around the Pentium 1 133 tower our family had. It was 12 years before my dad bought another laptop, and 18 before he trusted an AMD chip again. The expereince was bad enough that I've only forgiven AMDs within the last 5-6 years myself.

OT: Guys, relax, this is new scheme is for laptops/tablets, not desktops. Can you imagine how stupid it would be if we had to even double a mobo manufacture's product line, just to be as competitive as they are now? No manufacturer is going to take their current line of mobos, and then sell every permutation of their line accompanied with every processor available? Even if they cut it down to top-tier mobo line gets paired with top-tier processor, and so on down the line, they are still going to be unable to even come close to offering the consumers what they get now. I for one usually end up with top-tier mobos, but then high-mid-range CPUs. I imagine that's what most enthusiasts do. If they offered that build, who is going to supply the demand for the top-end CPUs, and what mobo is going to get stuck with that? There's no way this news is legit.
 

BeerTent

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May 8, 2011
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Evil Smurf said:
I will be buying a Mac, but I can see AMD sales improving.
The irony in the first bit of this statement is too good to not point out, assuming your getting a mac to avoid Intel.

If this is all true, and a lot of people are saying the source is shit, then this could very well be our future. AMD is inevitably going under. They're processors were just plain awesome while it lasted, but I feel the acquisition of ATi brought both sets of hardware down a few pegs. (Ask me about my last Radeon... We're talkin' a lot of pegs here.) The average user just won't know better, and there will be little demand for the units you have to insert yourself.

We need more information. Reliable information. Why do this? What benefit does it have to the customer? The last thing I want to see is a motherboard that is it's own unit, only sporting SATA on the board itself. I can understand placing low end sound and graphics cards on the Mainboard, but a Proc, and inevitably RAM in the future? No. Even for laptops, this still feels like a disaster. There's a reason why you can swap components out of a car, just like there's a reason why you can swap components out of a PC.
 

tautologico

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If people think AMD would win over any sizable portion of the market with this, they're seriously delusional about the size of the enthusiast market. It's not even guaranteed that this will happen, given the source.

Most people now buy laptops or other devices which make a complete hardware package. Intel knows the biggest threat to them is ARM with the mobile devices, not AMD with the PC. The PC as it was 30 years ago is gone, it's no use thinking about the "PC" market when the market is not really about PCs anymore.
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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"Source: Semiaccurate"

That's a pretty bang-on description.

Fusing the motherboard and CPU is annoying, and yes, it's a loss of customization, but "the end of custom PC building"? Please.

If AMD is smart, they'll milk this for all it's worth.
 

Evil Smurf

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BeerTent said:
Evil Smurf said:
I will be buying a Mac, but I can see AMD sales improving.
The irony in the first bit of this statement is too good to not point out, assuming your getting a mac to avoid Intel.

If this is all true, and a lot of people are saying the source is shit, then this could very well be our future. AMD is inevitably going under. They're processors were just plain awesome while it lasted, but I feel the acquisition of ATi brought both sets of hardware down a few pegs. (Ask me about my last Radeon... We're talkin' a lot of pegs here.) The average user just won't know better, and there will be little demand for the units you have to insert yourself.

We need more information. Reliable information. Why do this? What benefit does it have to the customer? The last thing I want to see is a motherboard that is it's own unit, only sporting SATA on the board itself. I can understand placing low end sound and graphics cards on the Mainboard, but a Proc, and inevitably RAM in the future? No. Even for laptops, this still feels like a disaster. There's a reason why you can swap components out of a car, just like there's a reason why you can swap components out of a PC.
No, I just like the GUI and UNIX based security of OSX too much not to get a Mac Wow, that's a lot of acronyms. Although I am a little annoyed at the fact that technology is super focused on getting slimmer. This means less expandability due to the soldering of parts to the case/motherboard and the lack of disk drives in some modern computers.
 

Metalrocks

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amazing. they probably give us a crappy CPU on a motherboard or a crappy motherboard with a good CPU that we will have some problems in the end.
looks like my next pc in the future will be AMD again.
 

QUINTIX

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Yeah, The Inquire's split from the register [http://hardforum.com/archive/index.php/t-1458433.html] and Charlie Demerjian's split from the inquire is rather suspect, and Charlie does have a lot of difficulty with math, particularly percentages [http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/mythbusters-math-mix-up/], and he has miss-cited at least one google-translate version of an article, but as he was spot on about nVidia?s thermi yield difficulties despite his unwillingness to correct his 7% article (which repeatedly cites) he and his associates at Semi Accurate haven been well ahead of the curve on many tech stories despite the occasional numerical error, and the fact that they actively scour foreign websites shows why. In fact Charlie frequently complains about other more well known tech blogs plagiarizing him.

Charlie Demerjian has a good record behind him. He's asked excellent questions at a hot-chips presentations (can't find video, arg...). He's also asked excellent questions while interviewing software engineers from epic games and coldplay. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIByXVphoM0]

This is what former Opteron marketing man John Fruehe had to say about him [www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=137904&p=189137&hilit=charlie#p189137]:
Hey, take it easy on Charlie. The world that he lives in is full of "unofficial" information. In that world, you get conflicting data and you have to make calls on what you believe is and is not true.

I give him credit for calling out when he might be rethinking something. If the rest of the guys that post based on backroom conversations would do the same, my job would be a lot easier. I don't mind the speculation, that is the game. But when you find out more details that show the speculation could be off base, you should call that out. Charlie does a better job than the other guys on that.

I am not taking sides, just making an observation.
Semiaccurate authors and investigators have direct contact with folks at fabs and oems. They know what they are talking about.

Edit: it was 1.7%, not 7%
Further edit; Via twitter SemiAccurate states the 7 out of 416 die candidates was verified from multiple sources.
 

thiosk

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I'd like to point out that it's gonna be tough to push beyond the 14 nm node in general, and I anticipate most progress beyond 14 nm will be playing with the cores, architectures, and cache. If the number of contacts goes up too high, it may become challenging to safely install a chip outside of a clean room environment. Intel already makes all the chips, so packing their own boards makes sense too. I just feel sorry for evga.

That being said,

I love the lga
And I'd have to see it go away.

Most of you are buying chips that never leave the orig device, anyway. Laptops, tablets, etc will not be effected.
 

Jfswift

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Nov 2, 2009
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Yea but usually by the time I feel a need to upgrade my processor I end up replacing the mobo too. I do see where you're going with this OP and I'm mildly concerned. I'd be more worried about companies like Sony integrating stuff in their chips that forces commercials and "always online" games.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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ResonanceSD said:
gmaverick019 said:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-8320+Eight-Core&id=1782#price

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-2700K+%40+3.50GHz&id=881

No "enthusiast" with a brain buys a 2700K. They buy a 2600K and then overclock it.

And besides, no enthusiast is buying AMD Bulldozer chips anyway, because let's face it, they're shit. 8 Cores that don't even work? No thanks.



I love how all the AMD fanboys conveniently completely forgot about the enormous financial problems that are hanging over AMD's head. Ivy Bridge is still kicking your ass, let's not forget that people XD
while that is true for a lot people, or "enthusiasts" as you put it, it's still a bloody expensive piece of technology, which was the crux of the post in the first place.

AMD fanboys? right..because you're looking at this from a neutral standpoint, quite clearly. I find it a little concerning that you have to bring up that last point, as you have to somehow justify your purchase over other peoples.

 

SL33TBL1ND

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In regions with more regulations on how companies do business, I don't see this lasting.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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so just to clarify (the the techno-dunce)

intel may not sell their processors seperatly..but atttatched tot he motherboard...i dont knoww hat this mans for thr other components (like graphics and such)
 

BeerTent

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Evil Smurf said:
BeerTent said:
Evil Smurf said:
I will be buying a Mac, but I can see AMD sales improving.
The irony in the first bit of this statement is too good to not point out, assuming your getting a mac to avoid Intel.

If this is all true, and a lot of people are saying the source is shit, then this could very well be our future. AMD is inevitably going under. They're processors were just plain awesome while it lasted, but I feel the acquisition of ATi brought both sets of hardware down a few pegs. (Ask me about my last Radeon... We're talkin' a lot of pegs here.) The average user just won't know better, and there will be little demand for the units you have to insert yourself.

We need more information. Reliable information. Why do this? What benefit does it have to the customer? The last thing I want to see is a motherboard that is it's own unit, only sporting SATA on the board itself. I can understand placing low end sound and graphics cards on the Mainboard, but a Proc, and inevitably RAM in the future? No. Even for laptops, this still feels like a disaster. There's a reason why you can swap components out of a car, just like there's a reason why you can swap components out of a PC.
No, I just like the GUI and UNIX based security of OSX too much not to get a Mac Wow, that's a lot of acronyms. Although I am a little annoyed at the fact that technology is super focused on getting slimmer. This means less expandability due to the soldering of parts to the case/motherboard and the lack of disk drives in some modern computers.
Aah, this, I understand. I thought you were aiming at avoiding Intel, which is what Macs are primary built from. If you prefer the GUI, then go for it. (Personally, I cannot stand the lack of control OSX forces on the user. No devmgr? MMC snap-ins gone? No GP? No way to edit Plist/Registry out of the box? Just give me a cardboard box instead.) Though, on the security topic, might as well be a moot point if your a home user with nothing to hide. I'v been without an AV/Using Router as FW for years, and my PC's always been on top. I actually do have something to hide.

While I like how thin things have become, (Gotta admit, some of those macs are pretty Sleek) The inability, again, to swap out hardware is what kills any and all appeal for me. Everything has to be built a certain way. No wiggle room. Can't stand it. I don't even like my laptop because of this.
 

QUINTIX

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Somewhat off topic: the first game with the audience reach AND production/marketing budget of a summer blockbuster will be for sub 20 watt SOC powered general-purpose computers, be they tablets or laptops or what have you. No other category of device (except maybe midrange laptops) have the kind of install base low power laptops/tablets have.
 

gyroscopeboy

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gunny1993 said:
Roelof Wesselius said:
Hey AMD This is your chance and you had better fucking take it.

EDIT: Wait isn't amd in financial troubles?
Their stocks were recently at the lowest they've been for almost 2 decades, they have a tiny portion of the CPU market. Although intel haven't been doing too well (current climate and all that shit) AMD are still doing worse. Whether they are on the precipice of disaster though, remains to be seen.
Sounds like a great time to scope out buying some AMD stock :D
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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Roelof Wesselius said:
Hey AMD This is your chance and you had better fucking take it.

EDIT: Wait isn't amd in financial troubles?
is AMD ever not in financial troubles? its like status quo for them.

OT: that sucks, but then, i really never changed the CPU without motherboard anyway. mostly because by the time i get new CPU, the old motherboard is too weak to handle it anyway so i got to buy both. This will jut unite them. Now say if they were to melt GPUs into motherboards, that would be a problem.

Well I've never really had the money for Intel CPUs and thus have went with AMD. Looks like this won't be changing. Also what is it with all the companies locking down their products lately?
control. in age when internet allows users to create better content than actual professionals, they dont want to loose thier jobs over to some "internet kids". You know, there are internet tutorials how to construct your PC, and that doesnt involve buying CPU.

Well, another reason to keep using AMD I suppose.
there were reasons before? you like graphic bugs? or are you that cheap?
 

AlwaysPractical

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I never thought that the future of PCs and PC gaming may actually be with AMD and Ubuntu. Intel, Windows... what happened? Why go console and tablet?
 

ratix2

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Its unlikely to happen for a number of reasons. First of all is that Broadwell, Haswell and many of Intels other architectures show a reaction to the changing market, i.e. a massive spike in the demand for low power, ultra mobile chipsets for mobile devices such as phones, tablets and even household appliances such as all-in-one control centers. This field is dominated by ARM holdings at the moment but Intel is and has been trying to get an upper hand in this market. What they are attempting to do is create a single processor that works across all fields, mobile (laptop}, ultra mobile, desktop and server. However since each market has different requirements and picks processors for a variety of reasons its more likely that in the future Intel will move to not only having different processing "family's" (for lack of a better word) but even different iterations of its x86 instruction set for different areas. Admittedly though they wouldnt want this, but its inevitable since a single all encompassing processor for each market makes no sense and would lose Intel a lot of market share to a variety of competitors.

The biggest thing keeping me from thinking that this will be the case is the server space. Server customers of course take power and cooling into consideration when making a decision, but by far the biggest requirements are processing capabilities and expansion, neither of which would be handled well by an integrated solution. If their customers arent able to buy new motherboards and drop in more RAM and processors as needed then Intel would likely lose major business to competitors that would be more than happy to take their server and super computer customers away, competitors like IBM, Nvidia and AMD just to name a few. And seeing as the market for servers is going to grow exponentially withing the next few years (thanks in part by the push to cloud computing) Intel would lose a lot of money by ignoring this space.

I mention the server space for this reason, modern desktop processors are essentially re-binned server processors, case in point Sandy Bridge-E. It would be easy for Intel to charge a premium for a re-binned server cpu and sell them as desktop processors.

Of course the desktop market is shrinking, but its not going to go away for a long time, and this brings me to a point of another major part of their revenue, OEMs like dell, HP, lenovo, sony, etc. who make computers and sell them to the public. As this article points out AMDs market share is only about 20%, but if intel were to go to an integrated solution many of these companies would likely jump ship not only to AMD but likely Nvidia as well. Nvidia has long been trying to replace traditional processors with its GPU parts and something like this would allow them to begin making GPUs that can be dropped into a motherboard like processors.

Of course what makes this all possible is Microsoft finally moving away from supporting x86 exclusively and and supporting other instruction sets with Windows 8 and this is likely to continue. Nvidia has enough money and influence they could likely get Microsoft to consider adding CUDA support to Windows, and even if not Nvidia does have a license to use ARMs instruction set (or if they dont unlike x86 ARM does license it out to other companies). They could easily create one that runs on ARM.

What we have here, in my opinion, is intel trying to serve many markets with one chip, bit its just not going to work in the end. Intel finally has a lot of competition on the horizon (not just AMD anymore) and a move like this would hurt them in more places then it would help them.