Internet Explodes Over Origin's Invasion of Privacy

[Zefar]

"They can do the EXACT SAME THING. It's just the Hardware survey that you can opt into but the rest is collected in the same way."

Hardware and software survey is optional you mean. Where as with EA none of it is optional. That's the big difference that seems to escape you.

You got it all wrong. They got TWO types of way to get information.

1: Hardware survey which you can opt out from.
2: General information that you accept to give Valve when installing their programs.

Number 2 being whatever the hell they want too. They've been doing it for years and not done a single bad thing with it.

 

[ph0b0s123]

"They can do the EXACT SAME THING. It's just the Hardware survey that you can opt into but the rest is collected in the same way."

Hardware and software survey is optional you mean. Where as with EA none of it is optional. That's the big difference that seems to escape you.

You got it all wrong. They got TWO types of way to get information.

1: Hardware survey which you can opt out from.
2: General information that you accept to give Valve when installing their programs.

Number 2 being whatever the hell they want too. They've been doing it for years and not done a single bad thing with it.

Getting fed up having to explain this many times so I will try one last time. Number 1: you have above is NOT OPTIONAL with EA, hence I will not be using it until that part is optional. This is different to Steam, hence I don't have as big a problem using it. Got that....

And the optional survey with steam do, which should have been your number 1:, is a hardware AND software survey, not just hardware. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

As far as general info, like name, email, address, credit card details. That is standard that one of these services will need that, no probs. My IP address, though, that's when I start asking questions.

 

[Platypus540]

Will this affect me at all on the console version of BF3?

 

[debossman21]

Critical Miss was right. time to nip this shit in the bud, or next thing you know, everyone will be doing it

 

[satsugaikaze]

Oh don't worry, I'll be calm. When EA changes the terms of service agreement on you without mentioning it. Or when your non-personal info just happens to appear in the hands of an advertiser. Believe me I'll be calm. You however won't be.

In the spirit of the original EA.com Privacy Policy, fixx'd.

 

[danintexas]

Well thanks EA - $60 I don't need to spend. You help make up my mind for me. THANKS!

When publishers treat me a paying customer like a criminal - when you guys want to put basically a virus on my machine to watch what I do.....

Yeah I say this with 100% sincerity

FUCK YOU

 

[Johnson McGee]

Isn't there already a service that collects huge amounts of personal data in order to play mediocre games and chat with people? Oh yeah, Facebook.

 

[CleverCover]

Alright....so...I guess I'll just have to hope Bioware removes itself from EA's clutches forever or I'm going to have to be without my favorite game company or sell my computer's soul to the computer devil.

Not fair.

Does this mean they watch you watching...um...private stuff? Like family pictures and videos?
My baby cousin didn't agree to that!

 

[CopperBoom]

We need to get some creative people together for this one.
Come on guys,

How can we make a legal issue out of this? Surely there must be something we can claim against them for this, it's bound to stamp over all kinds of legal and ethical issues. We just need a good enough claim against it and we can destroy them.

The games industry has been spitting on customer rights for this long, it's finally getting to the point where they don't consider customers to have any rights at all they can't have a hand in. We know we can't let it go down this way.

Hey drama queen, relax. This is old TOS language that never got cleared up. I cannot believe how much of a silly tissy people can make. At least this does not have the conspiracy theorist phooey that some posts have.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I actually take it a step further and point out that it is probably beneficial that they get our gaming information. If it helps them make better games and services based upon our preferences, then it is a good thing isn't it? And the fact that they are kind enough to even let us know they are doin this in the terms and conditions means that they aren't even being particularly clandestine.

"Kindness" has nothing to do with it.
EA is required to state that term in their contract by law. They know what happens when they don't (read up on Securom court cases if you want to know why).

Further, the sort of information EA wants for marketing purposes can only (realistically) be used for targeted advertising; which doesn't improve their products one bit.

The technical information survey, I have few problems with (it really should remain anonymous, and optional).
On the other hand, I have major problems with the clause that states that they want my permission to install an all-access rootkit to monitor what "software" (a term that literally means ANYTHING on my computer) I have on my machine.

 

[Lancer873]

Okay... just a random point, but every time someone brings up EA's Origin, I get mixed up between that, and Origin, the epic PC company. Isn't /this/ what copyright law was made for?

Edit: No, really, even the logo looks similar...

Edit deux: Okay, not that similar... still...

Edit Tree: OT: I sure hope that EA doesn't pull the same junk they did with BF3 on Overstrike when it comes out. I really think I'm gonna love Overstrike and I'd hate to see it ruined by excessive DRM and junk.

(explanation: Overstrike is being made by Insomniac Games, but produced by EA)

 

[spacecowboy86]

oh god..... those poor data collectors working at EA....... so....... much..... weird........ disturbing......... pornography........unless I'm overestimating the extent they can go, in which case I don't feel sorry for them at all, rather i'm up in arms about this disgrace. glad I'm not into battlefield because I never read those contracts.

 

[tsb247]

Fucking EA! Hard. Copies. Come on people! I don't want to be the guy who's telling everyone to "Go back to horses, motors are just a fad!" but seriously!

The trouble is that, from what I have gathered, hard copies of games will still require activation with Origin.

For example, when I bought my hard copy of Half-Life 2, it still required Steam activation.

Heck, when Steam was first introduced, I hated it, but now it's seeming all the more friendly as time goes by.

Oh, and as an aside...

Damn you Gamestop for killing the awesome that was Impulse!
*Shakes fist*

 

[Wicky_42]

When all this blows over and when EA finally gives in and kills it's privacy intruding EULA, think about how you were part of the problem.

You wanted to play this game sooo badly... so badly that you were defending on the Internet right of multi-billion dollar company on a free data mining.

Or you were deluding yourself and the rest of us with the idea EA won't use it's spying privileges.

Man the craziness in that post goes off the chart. Do you REALLY think EA will be spying on you and all the MILLION others and then spread the information to third parties? Oh wait you actually DO. Good lord man, get a grip on reality.

This is by far the most ridiculous conspiracy theory out there.

What could EA possible do with your random information? Nothing and no one would want to buy it either as it would be bad PR.

It's not so much that they'll do something evil (that you automatically jump to that conclusion is puzzling), just that for some reason they think that they have the right to spy on me, monitor what I do and use, and save that data for future reference. Why do they think that that is ethical? The only protection they offer is not to sell the info in a personally identifiable format to advertisers, though they seem to feel that IPs are suitably anonymous to not count as 'identifiable', which is a joke (what with arrests having been made on the strength of IP addresses in the past :/)

For the sort of information they want to gather users should be rewarded - this is valuable marketing information, and by getting people to not only give it to them for free, but to pay to give it through the purchase of Origin-restricted games, EA is laughing.

...

http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html
And read this part.

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.

They can do the EXACT SAME THING. It's just the Hardware survey that you can opt into but the rest is collected in the same way.

You guys are freaking out about something most download managers can do and are doing.

Do you guys want tinfoil hats with that as well for the reptile aliens who try to scan your mind?

The difference is 1) the aggregate info Valve gathers is only for programs used on Steam, as far as I know, rather than automatically harvesting your entire PC's registry
and 2) anything more is optional, announced by a box that pops up every year or so asking if you want to take part in a survey.

Let's contextualise the difference: You go out to buy a TV. you buy it, but as you try and take it out of the shop, you get stopped by an assistant who demands that before you can use the TV, a couple of guys will have to go through your house and see what other appliances you own, for market research. Your TV will stream data about it's usage to them, but that's not all. They will also need to see the bank statements proving when you bought your other appliances to get a feel for your purchasing habits, and will be installing small monitoring devices throughout your house to see how often you use them. If you buy any new appliance they will be notified, but it's all OK because it won't inconvenience you at all - they're just gathering data, and promise not to sell on anything personally identifiable. And, of course, you've automatically consented to it by buying the TV... which can't be returned.

The fact that they're aiming to make money off of violating your privacy with only the tacit consent of purchasing a product of theirs as grounds should be enough to piss you off.

Compare that to another shop, whose TV will feedback its own usage information, just like the first, but that's it. They occasionally send you a letter enquiring if you'd like to participate in a consumer survey, but you can ignore it just as you might any other letter.

Sure, that's not as great as just buying a TV and not having anyone monitor you, but can you honestly even begin to defend the demands of the first shop?

Guys, its only getting info for BF3, so calm the fuck down.

No, it's not.

 

[Wicky_42]

Fucking EA! Hard. Copies. Come on people! I don't want to be the guy who's telling everyone to "Go back to horses, motors are just a fad!" but seriously!

I think that was most people's thoughts initially - I made my pre-order after being informed that Origin wasn't required for activation or play, and that it was just a convenient way to auto-update whilst manual updates were still available. Now apparently it's compulsory for everyone on the PC. I've not cancelled, but honestly I'd pirate the game before installing Origin as I currently understand it. I'm still buying the license, but fuck the spyware.

 

[Zefar]

It's not so much that they'll do something evil (that you automatically jump to that conclusion is puzzling), just that for some reason they think that they have the right to spy on me, monitor what I do and use, and save that data for future reference. Why do they think that that is ethical? The only protection they offer is not to sell the info in a personally identifiable format to advertisers, though they seem to feel that IPs are suitably anonymous to not count as 'identifiable', which is a joke (what with arrests having been made on the strength of IP addresses in the past :/)

You know the fascinating part about your thoughts that they think IP is identified information. Some or maybe lots of people think IP is quite identified information. In the way that one was claiming "At least Steam doesn't collect IP information". Crazy people I tell ya.

Also they're not going to be able to see WHAT you're doing 24/7. They are just going to get information on some random things. They most likely don't know where most of it comes from and if they have over a few million customers you're looking at enough Data to that you had to spend 1000 years to go through it all and this is just over a short amount of time too.

So you guys are overly paranoid about this information. Also Steam stated that they could share the personal information as well. As long as it doesn't identified you.

Let's contextualise the difference: You go out to buy a TV. you buy it, but as you try and take it out of the shop, you get stopped by an assistant who demands that before you can use the TV, a couple of guys will have to go through your house and see what other appliances you own, for market research. Your TV will stream data about it's usage to them, but that's not all. They will also need to see the bank statements proving when you bought your other appliances to get a feel for your purchasing habits, and will be installing small monitoring devices throughout your house to see how often you use them. If you buy any new appliance they will be notified, but it's all OK because it won't inconvenience you at all - they're just gathering data, and promise not to sell on anything personally identifiable. And, of course, you've automatically consented to it by buying the TV... which can't be returned.

This is a bad analogy as they are never going to look into you personally. They just don't have the time or man power to do it. So the whole "We'll go through your house" won't work.

The fact that they're aiming to make money off of violating your privacy with only the tacit consent of purchasing a product of theirs as grounds should be enough to piss you off.

Violating privacy? What are they going to do? Post what some random guy does on his computer?

As for making money, well guess what, Steam does this as well. They use the information to see people like and don't like and then try to make something of it. EA does the same.

Good lord you guys are REALLY trying to make EA out to be the most Evil company out there that only wants to hurt or violate their customer in every bit of way possible and never once do you guys think they might use this information to IMPROVE their client or company.

I just can't believe how many people blindly believe that they are so evil. Do you think they wear such evil mustaches on work? Along with a top hat as well?

 

[Wicky_42]

It's not so much that they'll do something evil (that you automatically jump to that conclusion is puzzling), just that for some reason they think that they have the right to spy on me, monitor what I do and use, and save that data for future reference. Why do they think that that is ethical? The only protection they offer is not to sell the info in a personally identifiable format to advertisers, though they seem to feel that IPs are suitably anonymous to not count as 'identifiable', which is a joke (what with arrests having been made on the strength of IP addresses in the past :/)

You know the fascinating part about your thoughts that they think IP is identified information. Some or maybe lots of people think IP is quite identified information. In the way that one was claiming "At least Steam doesn't collect IP information". Crazy people I tell ya.

Maybe you'd like to read up a bit before disputing? In the EU an IP is classed as personally identifiable information, the same as a home address, your finger print, your name and date of birth. Disagree over the nature of dynamic IPs all you want, but your first sentence there demonstrates your casual ignorance of the topic.

Also they're not going to be able to see WHAT you're doing 24/7. They are just going to get information on some random things.

Actually, they say they want to be able to gather "usage data" on all your programs. That is quite interpretable as what you use, when, and for how long. So that's exactly "WHAT you're doing 24/7" on your computer.

They most likely don't know where most of it comes from and if they have over a few million customers you're looking at enough Data to that you had to spend 1000 years to go through it all and this is just over a short amount of time too.

1) the info will be easy to tie to your Origin account, thus actually making it very easy for them to see where it comes from and 2) if the data they collected wasn't searchable/indexed, why do you think they would bother gathering it? Are you just being wilfully obtuse?

Let's contextualise the difference: You go out to buy a TV. you buy it, but as you try and take it out of the shop, you get stopped by an assistant who demands that before you can use the TV, a couple of guys will have to go through your house and see what other appliances you own, for market research. Your TV will stream data about it's usage to them, but that's not all. They will also need to see the bank statements proving when you bought your other appliances to get a feel for your purchasing habits, and will be installing small monitoring devices throughout your house to see how often you use them. If you buy any new appliance they will be notified, but it's all OK because it won't inconvenience you at all - they're just gathering data, and promise not to sell on anything personally identifiable. And, of course, you've automatically consented to it by buying the TV... which can't be returned.

This is a bad analogy as they are never going to look into you personally. They just don't have the time or man power to do it. So the whole "We'll go through your house" won't work.

How much man power does it take for EA for someone to install Origin on their computer? None. They don't need someone to go into your home and install shit because you do it for them - or did you miss the point of the analogy? As to them "never looking into you personally", how do you think targeted advertising works? Or did you think that that was just a catch-phrase? They've already indicated that the information they are gathering is going to be used to target you specifically for advertising; what's to stop them from doing anything else they want to with it? I'm not calling them evil, I'm not drawing up conspiracies, I'm trying to make you understand just how vulnerable you are making yourself to the whims of a company that, lets face it, doesn't have the friendliest track record.

The fact that they're aiming to make money off of violating your privacy with only the tacit consent of purchasing a product of theirs as grounds should be enough to piss you off.

Violating privacy? What are they going to do? Post what some random guy does on his computer?

I don't think you understand what privacy is. They don't have to post anything anywhere because they've violated your privacy. For their commercial gain. It's fundamentally abhorrent. Your resistance to understanding that and your wilful dismissal of people you don't know having a keener insight into your computer use than your closest friend is pretty much as abhorrent.

As for making money, well guess what, Steam does this as well. They use the information to see people like and don't like and then try to make something of it. EA does the same.

How many targeted ads has Steam sent you in the last decade? As far as I can see, Valve has used their gameplay data simply to patch their existing games and possibly to direct development of new ones. EA wants to bring you adverts.

Good lord you guys are REALLY trying to make EA out to be the most Evil company out there that only wants to hurt or violate their customer in every bit of way possible and never once do you guys think they might use this information to IMPROVE their client or company.

I just can't believe how many people blindly believe that they are so evil. Do you think they wear such evil mustaches on work? Along with a top hat as well?

I don't believe I've ever called them evil - though you have quite a bit. All I'm trying to do is make you realise the risk inherent with letting EA get away with such an invasive piece of spyware. At the very least, the identifiable data that they will store will be a treasure trove for hackers - that if nothing else should worry you, especially since it was only a matter of months ago that the vulnerabilities of such companies - and their often casual disregard for security - was so publicly exposed.

I just can't believe how ANYONE could blindly believe that they are benign and have your best interests at heart. Do you think they all wear halos at work? A pair of wings as well?

 

[The Forces of Chaos]

so will all future bioware games (mass effect 3 and kotor) require origin then?

 

[Faceroll]

This is what I have to say on the matter in response to EA.

You want to look through my personal files/media/documents/conversation history and almost anything else you could find to invade my privacy to the fullest extent possible?

Meet my little friend FileProtect & FileLocker, made specifically to keep nosy brats like you out of peoples personal files.

Anyone else that wants these programs they have an easter sale on at this moment, I advise just getting FileProtect alone if you want the following.

1. To hide personal folders/files to the extent that they are non-existent.
2. Password files/folders
3. Make files/folders unmodifiable. (ie, Modify/Copy/Move)
4. Make files/folders delete-proof.
5. Have a satisfying grin on your face because now all your files are locked down 100% and nosy little brats like EA can't touch them.

You can use FolderLock as well, that one features 256-bit encryption and can
only be opened by entering a password and mounting the locker as a storage
drive, bit more intense and involves moving files into the locker.

(governments/banks use this, it's bound to work don't worry.)

FolderProtect Link: www.newsoftwares.net/folder-protect/
FolderLock Link: www.newsoftwares.net/folderlock/

(Edit: Yes, I'm aware there hasn't been any posts for a fair while, although I doubt any of us can further trust EA/Origin in the future as all they did was make the Privacy Policy sound less invading, it's still the same crap, purpose of this post is help those of whom want to use Origin but also protect their privacy without using difficult things like sandboxxie, basically never unprotect these files with Origin running and you're fine.)