Internet Explodes Over Origin's Invasion of Privacy

[PingoBlack]

So really, it's nothing to get scared over. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't EA a multi-million, if not multi-billion dollar coporation? I don't think they would knowingly put out spyware, rather they just get flak from our media because people have read over their legal stuff more so than anyone has cared to read Steam's and made a bigger deal out of it.

Erm ... yes they would. In fact, they already did! Origin is already up and running at this moment.

And the updated EULA still contains provisions to allow EA to look at all of your PC and software, without any opt in or specification to you as user what data is being collected and sent.

If you have trouble reading EULAs, it's ok, they are written that way. But that doesn't mean you can just ignore them. People HAVE scrutinised EULAs before. Steam, Blizzards World of Warcraft and many more.

However, only gamers seem to have an attitude their privacy doesn't matter.

When Microsoft did something that was just 20% of what EA is asking of you, they got into a world of trouble. And were forced to change their policy on data collection, even added a specific dialogue to ask you if you wanna send including the data itself for you to see.

So yes. EA is pushing the boundaries here. They have opened the door to act as any spyware. Legaly. They have lawyers, so the EULA was no mistake or a "slip".

And yes, they are counting gamers are too dumb and superficial to actually stop them.

 

[Lim3]

You obviously haven't read all the posts. The information itself is extremely valuable, especially to marketers. I also disagree with your critism of this artcile. I highly value my privacy and thus maintain a very limited online presence. If not for this article i wouldn't have been informed to steer clear of EA. In addition articles like this and the outrage they generate let companies know that attempting to include information gathering clauses are interpreted as a violation of consumer privacy by the consumers themselves. If people weren't outraged, or if the information wasn't presented by the media Apple would probably still be gathering information on everyone's movements through use of their iphones.

The 'violation of consumer privacy' you wave isn't something a company like EA actively go out of their way to achieve. Color me naive, but the majority of data collected is generally for two purposes, marketing and (in theory) anti-cheating.

Sure, that crack someone recently mentioned to bypass that DRM might be a noble protest against the concept of DRM itself, but would you be surprised if they designed the TOS just to weed out the people who did it, and prevent them from doing the same thing to the products they specifically implemented?

Sure, the information you're handing over to EA is mandatory, but the very fact that it's anonymous says volumes.

.
.
Oh, and hey! Check out some of EA's core Privacy Policy, which has already been updated a month ago (and takes precedence over any conflicts with Origin's TOS:

*snip*

We may also access and disclose personal information, including personal communications, in connection with report abuse functions in our products and services, to enforce legal rights and comply with the law, or to comply with an order from a government entity or other competent authority, or when we have reason to believe that a disclosure is necessary to address potential or actual injury or interference with our rights, property, operations, users or others who may be harmed or may suffer loss or damage, or when we believe that disclosure is necessary to protect our rights, combat fraud and/or comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on EA. Note that certain publically available information you post and communicate on our and third party sites and services is public information for which you have no expectation of privacy. See Section XI for more details.

tl;dr, no-one's going to find out where you live unless you opt in for marketing, or if you've been hacking the hell out of EA's games. Also, if you want to get into specifics, they've divided your EA profile details between "personal" and "non-personal" information, where "non-personal" means your usage of EA products and simultaneously used third-party programs, and "personal" is the stuff that everyone thinks EA is going to sell to the rapists and murderers of the world and let them into their homes.

Nevertheless they can still sell that information. I don't care if it's anonymous I still don't want their prying eyes in my PC. They pretty much admit they're willing to sell the information they gather from our PCs. Also note that in the final paragraph they are willing to use personal information if that disclosure is necessary to protect their rights? That gives them a great amount of leeway if they want to use any personal informaiton gathered.

In anycase my original point was to say that I approve of this article and I don't think Andy Chalk is doing "Anything to wage war against the evil gaming monopolies".

Whether you want them gathering data from you or not is up to you, and I personally don't care whether your download Origins or purchase BF3.

 

[brainslurper]

Just buy the hardcopy. It isn't that hard.

Are you not privy to the fact that the hard copy still requires you to install Origin?

How do so many people still not know this?

Well, you could always crack the execuable, I know the legality of cracking the game is iffy. But fuck legality man, If they complain about people decompiling their .exe file they shouldn't to be doing this kind of shit.

You can't. The game launches from a fucking browser.

 

[maninahat]

It still boggles the mind as to how this much of an invasion of privacy can be legal.

Perhaps because people keep signing the terms and agreements forms that make it legal for them to do it.

Don't keep bashing the "next" button. Read the contracts, people!

Or don't even bother with reading, because I'm not even sure if there is any real problem with them knowing about my private information. Hell, if it helps them make better games and services, I'm actually happy to let them see what I am doing with my machine. I think people have this idea that providing access to any personal information is going to lead to an Orwellian doom state. They not interested in taking your freedoms, they just want your money!

 

[maninahat]

Does this mean that EA Games can find out all the kinky porn I'm into? If so then I'm seriously worried

CAN? yes. Will do? Do you trust them enough to ignore it?

Do you trust a company that has no idea who you are, where you are from, simply wants you to give them money and has no legal recompense from doing what they like with the details of your kinky porn collection?

That's the real call, isn't it?

But I still get to keep the porn, right?

 

[maninahat]

I don't know where anyone is getting the sense that EA is going to scan your computer and take screenshots of your personal information.

I mean, maybe it has the potential to be read that way.
But the impression I get from this is:

identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services.

So, basically they want to know:
OS - What's your preferred O/S
Applicaton - How often do you use Origin, was it installed properly.
Software - what games do you own and how often do you play them
Hardware - what hardware do you use to play your games

And they're going to use this to:
Make sure your updates work and provide content that appeals to you.


And people are somehow reading this as:
EA is going to scan my hard drive, catalogue, document, sort everything and send it back to the NWO.

Mind you, I do understand that in the above context it is a bit open ended (not having seen the whole thing). And a "software run through Origin" or "hardware relevant to the running of software on origin" or things of that nature may clear up any confusion.

This is probably the most sensible post I've read all day.

Can't you sheep just read the article properly? The 'uproar' being caused is not over the actual clause itself, but over what the writer of the article is projecting.

Exactly, this whole thing is basically a big hullabaloo over not what is being said, but what is not being said. And this whole EA is the devil thing is getting old. EA wants money, they're a business, they probably have investors, they're not trying to piss people off.

If people have concerns that the contract is vague and has been left deliberately so in order for EA to snoop information which lies beyond the scope of the Origin service then bring those concerns to EA with the request that the contract be clarified.

Personally some may think me naive but I'm going to give most people the benefit of the doubt and assume from the get go they're not deliberately trying to screw people over. In this case, I'm going to assume that EA a games publisher is not trying to act like the CIA because as a games publisher its not in their interests to do so. They're intent is to have profit through the process of selling games and other game related content. Any information on your computer which is beyond the scope of "what games do you like to play" is irrelevant.

EA doesn't care what kind of porn you have on your hard drive. Nor what kind of fan fiction you read. Nor what subject you're writing your essay on for English Lit.



Point being, if you have a problem with the vagueness of the contract and its potential implications then get them to clarify it. That's why they have lawyers. Lawyers, who are after all people and like all people they cannot predict the entirety of what is and is what is not covered in a legal document. That's why such documents can be amended and changed to account for previously unforseen issues that may arise from the initial or any subsequent release of the contract.



And incidentally doesn't Xbox and Sony do this already? I mean any gamer account lists all the games that a person has played, that's what achievements are, a permanent record of your games and how devoted you are to playing them. Is there not also information somewhere as to how long games have been played by any individual? This sort of information is most likely already recorded and accounted for on the xbox/psn/wii, EA is just putting a clause in the contract to collect the information for Origin.

You seem to be one of the few people on here who agree with me. I actually take it a step further and point out that it is probably beneficial that they get our gaming information. If it helps them make better games and services based upon our preferences, then it is a good thing isn't it? And the fact that they are kind enough to even let us know they are doin this in the terms and conditions means that they aren't even being particularly clandestine.

People just love to implicitly consider themselves the hero, battling the evil corporations (that evil corporations that provides them with many hours of entertainment).

 

[satsugaikaze]

Nevertheless they can still sell that information. I don't care if it's anonymous I still don't want their prying eyes in my PC. They pretty much admit they're willing to sell the information they gather from our PCs. Also note that in the final paragraph they are willing to use personal information if that disclosure is necessary to protect their rights? That gives them a great amount of leeway if they want to use any personal informaiton gathered.

In anycase my original point was to say that I approve of this article and I don't think Andy Chalk is doing "Anything to wage war against the evil gaming monopolies".

Whether you want them gathering data from you or not is up to you, and I personally don't care whether your download Origins or purchase BF3.

I don't mind the fact that the article was made to point out the potential of what Origin's TOS could devolve into (which was the real take-home message), but the fact remains that the author of the article projected a single clause into an incredibly simplistic and narrow summary, and thus blew the entire thing out of proportion.
To me, the article was written in a blatantly biased way, and was designed to rile up anyone who didn't bother thinking about the Privacy Policy as a whole. Like the cliched news channels you see in the movies, Chalk put a spin on it to influence readers.

At the very least, a more professional article wouldn't have used the title "Internet Explodes Over Origin's Invasion of Privacy", as if to suggest that the whole of the Internet should be in an uproar over a projected idea that's hardly been new news.

The sad part is that the majority of posts in this thread haven't been as reasonable as yours, and have mostly consisted of the same old "I'm never going to get anything from EA anymore" one-liners, ad nauseum. It reeks of the readers simply having taken Andy Chalk's predictions as pure fact, and they deserve so much better than that. As much as it's endearing to put a casual tone on videogaming news, this article distilled the facts into something ridiculously simplistic and sub-par with some of the better articles I've seen in this "News Room" section.

 

[Dabono]

You realize this just simply asks what your computer is made of, i.e. Linux or Windows. And who could give a crap if EA knows that you're a Mac user, or prefer Windows?
So they want to know if you use the big fancy-shmancy USB goggles to beam the ironsights onto your eyesockets when you press the button to raise it to your eye? But seriously, why would'nt EA want to know what people use to play their games, besides the old-fashioned keyboard and mouse?

If I want to know things of you, I can ask. And you may or may not answer. I may even reward you answering me by some coupon or some such.

I can also hold you up at gunpoint and force you to answer me. Would you still shrug it off, even if you wouldn't have minded giving the info up anyway?

 

[hellflame]

People that don't think this ToS isn't an invasion of privacy and claim that other companys do this too, need to properly read the ToS again, imho.

Yes it IS true that other companys track data about THEIR games and how you use THEIR software. Yes, most people, including myself, don't have a problem with this.
What EA wants / can(to keep you guys who think Ea isn't evil happy)to do however is track EVERYTHING you do on a pc.

How would you like if I came over and recorded everything you do for the next month? what purpose do you think this data has? Is it to improve your way of life? Enhancing your daily habbits by making my companys products more personalized to your taste? Or is it to simply sell to a marketing bureau to slam more spam down your throat?

I do not understand why a game publisher should know about how many hours my browser, my media player, my p2p software is running and what i do with it! Yes by all means collect data on how I use origin and play your games on it.

Sure, trust EA not to abuse this if you want... It is simply a matter of making a clear statement *waves a sign around " back off EA "* If they can get away with this so will the next publisher, and then another one, until just about everything you install on your pc is snooping around.

 

[Tropical Bob]

It's getting sickening how far ToS's can go without any sort of oversight. Even the whole "you license our product, you don't buy it" shit was going too far in my mind, but that's stuck around for good.

But hey, why worry when everyone can just yell at you to not buy it if you don't like the ToS or company policies.

 

[SnipErlite]

Spoiler: Yeah, no.

Hold on one second, am I reading that correctly?

That's interesting...very interesting. If it's true then that's what I'll be doing.


Honestly, I can't see why EA are doing this. This will alienate tons of potential customers, encourage people to pirate their game and probably future games....

Maybe they want it to do terribly so they can somehow dick over DICE? :S

 

[Jimbo1212]

Yet again the legit buyers get screwed over by the devs. When will they realise that this will only make their games be pirated ever more...

 

[Zefar]

Lol at people going nuts over this. Like come on people, do you really see EA going.

"Lets share what Timmy is doing"
or

"Oh Steve has been quite naughty, lets show the world what he has on his PC"

They will not do a single thing with your information that will harm their PR.

The thread is up in 19 pages and people are like STILL freaking out about it. On Steam forums we only had a handful of small threads when people finally got around and used common sense to think a bit.

But reading about all of you super paranoid users thinking EA will do something so EVIL with your information gives me a huge laugh. Thanks guys and keep it up.

Hopefully we won't see such display of intelligence in game in BF3 as that would quite a bad sight.


People overreacted about EA banning people on their forum and it turned out they only did it once and then never did it again.
People overreacted about EAs eula stating that they may terminate your account after 2 years of complete inactivity. Shortly after EA told everyone they have never done such a thing and will never do such a thing.

So please people try to get hold of Common sense, it's actually quite good to have.

 

[minimacker]

EA was getting dangerously close to the crapiness of Activision, but now EA went passed them and kept going for another mile.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Good thing I haven't updated what used to be the EA Download Manager in yonks.
Right... uninstalled.

 

[Jnat]

Why won't it read?!

 

[ph0b0s123]

The thread is up in 19 pages and people are like STILL freaking out about it. On Steam forums we only had a handful of small threads when people finally got around and used common sense to think a bit.

The difference with steam is you have the choice as far as whether this info gets collected, as you cannot decline or accept surveys. With EA you have no choice.

For the moment I will not use anything origin related, which is a shame as I wanted to pre-order BF3 and get the free game. If EA update the TOS to make the info collection optional, then no probs I am back in again. So there you go no freaking out just voting with my wallet behaviour I do not find acceptable.

 

[spartandude]

Lol at people going nuts over this. Like come on people, do you really see EA going.

"Lets share what Timmy is doing"
or

"Oh Steve has been quite naughty, lets show the world what he has on his PC"

They will not do a single thing with your information that will harm their PR.

The thread is up in 19 pages and people are like STILL freaking out about it. On Steam forums we only had a handful of small threads when people finally got around and used common sense to think a bit.

But reading about all of you super paranoid users thinking EA will do something so EVIL with your information gives me a huge laugh. Thanks guys and keep it up.

Hopefully we won't see such display of intelligence in game in BF3 as that would quite a bad sight.


People overreacted about EA banning people on their forum and it turned out they only did it once and then never did it again.
People overreacted about EAs eula stating that they may terminate your account after 2 years of complete inactivity. Shortly after EA told everyone they have never done such a thing and will never do such a thing.

So please people try to get hold of Common sense, it's actually quite good to have.

Im not worried about EA actually reading my info im pissed off that they think they should have the right to look at anything on my PC, they dont, what i have on my PC is not their concern. they do not have the righ to invade my privacy!

 

[Atmos Duality]

Because he's not a big company with a reputation to uphold.

One person. Many people. Same principle.

OT: I'd be wary of allowing a company to take advantage of my personal info without giving me a cut of the action. It's my info after all.

 

[Lim3]

I don't mind the fact that the article was made to point out the potential of what Origin's TOS could devolve into (which was the real take-home message), but the fact remains that the author of the article projected a single clause into an incredibly simplistic and narrow summary, and thus blew the entire thing out of proportion.
To me, the article was written in a blatantly biased way, and was designed to rile up anyone who didn't bother thinking about the Privacy Policy as a whole. Like the cliched news channels you see in the movies, Chalk put a spin on it to influence readers.

At the very least, a more professional article wouldn't have used the title "Internet Explodes Over Origin's Invasion of Privacy", as if to suggest that the whole of the Internet should be in an uproar over a projected idea that's hardly been new news.

The sad part is that the majority of posts in this thread haven't been as reasonable as yours, and have mostly consisted of the same old "I'm never going to get anything from EA anymore" one-liners, ad nauseum. It reeks of the readers simply having taken Andy Chalk's predictions as pure fact, and they deserve so much better than that. As much as it's endearing to put a casual tone on videogaming news, this article distilled the facts into something ridiculously simplistic and sub-par with some of the better articles I've seen in this "News Room" section.

I think we can both agree to ad nauseum in regard to this discussion then. I have a feeling that many of our views in regard to media ownership, political cover by the media and the degradation of news would be similar.