Introduce Yourself to The Elder Scrolls Online

[Product Placement]

It's not all that odd.

Our bronze age lasted about 3000 years. That's an awful long time to go from being able to smelt iron to being able to reliably craft useful items with it (which heralded in the iron age).

Not to mention that that's 3000 years for our most advanced of societies. Even today there are still tribes hidden away in a few spots on earth that live stone age lifestyles and have been for literally thousands of years.

Especially if you consider that both those worlds have magic, although with a Game of Thrones it's mostly in the past. All of our technology came from simple beginnings. If there was magic that made those simple beginnings unnecessary then all the following inventions would've never happened.

Why invent the wheel when you can reliably float stuff around? How can you ever invent a car having never discovered the wheel?

It's even more so jarring, when you consider that North America was technically speaking still in the stone age, until it was discovered by Europeans.

One thing you can consider to be hindrance for technological advancement in the Elder Scrolls universe is the existence of magic. Most forms of higher education centers around studying advanced spells. Even the Dwemer technology was partially magic based.

With all the attention focused on magic, nobody is looking for alternatives.

 

[Bigsmith]

I'll start with a question; has anything other than Blizzards own decisions caused subscriptions to drop?

Short Answer, No.

What this shows is that no MMO will remove WOW from the Iron throne for a long long time.

On the other hand this game looks promising; whether I pay attention to it depends on what payment system they implement.

Although the graphics do look really nice and the game play doesn't look as bad I thought it would. They did well with implementing the Elder Scrolls combat system into such a potentially hectic environment.

 

[RyQ_TMC]

With all the attention focused on magic, nobody is looking for alternatives.

I quoted you, but it goes to a number of other commenters who said the same thing.

This excuse only works in high-magic universes. TES might be one (played some of the games, but never cared enough about the lore to make a definitive statement), but the Game of Thrones universe isn't.

The reason its different now is because the internet connects research in a way that previous societies did not have. Information is freely available to almost everyone in the 1st and 2nd worlds so rather than one person digging up information from a library 50 years after someone died; we have hundreds working on similar projects often sharing information between them. You didn't have to ride by horse for two years from China to Europe, copy everything by hand, and then try to teach the important bits to yourself because the education system wasn't specialized enough for you to have learned it elsewhere.

Except in fantasy universes, all too often there is a method of near-instantaneous communication (and even if it takes a few days to deliver a message, it's usually very reliable). Characters in fantasy works of fiction are very aware of developments happening a long way away.

Also, fantasy universes also have a common language and culture - something that, in the real world, contributed heavily to the development of science and philosophy in Medieval Europe.

The gripe is that fantasy universes are not just "iron age Europe with some magic thrown in". Characters often exhibit modern sensibilities and beliefs, and there are often "scientist" characters with advanced knowledge (and, much as they are a staple of pop-history, "lone geniuses with knowledge hundreds of years ahead of their peers" did not exist in history). Fantasy societies have the capacity to develop scientifically at a faster pace than ancient/medieval real world societies, and yet they don't.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Except in fantasy universes, all too often there is a method of near-instantaneous communication (and even if it takes a few days to deliver a message, it's usually very reliable). Characters in fantasy works of fiction are very aware of developments happening a long way away.

I'm not saying every piece of fiction is the same. But his example was Game of Thrones, where such communication definitely does not exist. The other more pertinent example is Elder Scrolls. And having played through both Oblivion and Skyrim, there does not seem to be any form of instantaneous communication there either.

Also, fantasy universes also have a common language and culture - something that, in the real world, contributed heavily to the development of science and philosophy in Medieval Europe.

Again not a universal thing. Qunari have their own language and culture. In Westeros they are pretty divided as well(does not take much to get the lords in the North to start chanting 'king in the north.') And the elder scrolls dudes were apparently divided enough to have an insane and on going civil war. So id say cooperation ain't their thing.

The gripe is that fantasy universes are not just "iron age Europe with some magic thrown in". Characters often exhibit modern sensibilities and beliefs, and there are often "scientist" characters with advanced knowledge. Fantasy societies have the capacity to develop scientifically at a faster pace than ancient/medieval real world societies, and yet they don't.

Presumably they could develop along different lines but still be developing. You'd have to give me examples of games/books/tv you're thinking of. But the way I see it they don't develop technology because its not relevant. They approach problems differently because they have different tools. In Neverwinter Nights the intelligent people tend to learn magic because it is the most obvious and powerful path apparent to someone who is smart. Thus they look for magic solutions and aren't likely to discover something like electricity. Something like electricity would help everyone in a city, but the ability to generate light and heat help the person who knows how to do that. Thus the intelligent person has no reason to spread their power. Unlike an inventor who needs to convince businessmen and citizens to support his idea and make a power plant before he can enjoy the fruits of his labor. The intelligent mage has no such need.

This would presumably be the same mechanism at work in the elder scrolls. Also elder scrolls seems to have different cultures and I'm pretty sure the elves have their own language or something?

and, much as they are a staple of pop-history, "lone geniuses with knowledge hundreds of years ahead of their peers" did not exist in history

I wouldn't say they are necessarily ahead of all their peers. But there are definitely people like Leonardo Da Vinci, who pioneered ideas on tanks, flight, and changed the way we view medicine by viewing the body as a complex machine. All long before those ideas became either accepted realities or were even though of as possible.

 

[Kahani]

both Morrowind and Oblivion had a class system.

Not in the sense the term is usually meant they didn't. What the vast majority of people understand "class" to mean is a definition of what your character can do. If you're a fighter, you wear armour and hit people with a pointy stick but can't do magic. If you're a rogue, you wear light armour and do stealth type stuff but can't take much damage, and so on. TES has none of that. All you do is choose which skills will be better when you first start the game. It has no effect on what you can actually do or how you have to play. In fact, due to the way levelling worked it was often better to pick completely different skills from the ones you actually wanted to use.

So yeah, they had a class system in the sense that the word class appeared at some point, but that's it. It had absolutely nothing to do with the kind of class system most MMOs and RPGs have, so it's really rather disingenuous to answer complaints about introducing that kind of class system by claiming there was already a class system.

Even 600 years ago people were developing the steam engine.

Much longer ago than that even. Steam engines existed 2000 years ago, and possibly even earlier than that. It just took a while for anyone to work out any practical use for them.

And having played through both Oblivion and Skyrim, there does not seem to be any form of instantaneous communication there either.

Morrowind had instantaneous teleportation and fast moving levitation. Removed for gameplay/engine reasons in Oblivion and Skyrim, but in the lore a very fast courier service would clearly be possible.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

I'm... Not sure what to think, to be honest. The universe which TES is set in intrigues me, but MMO's (or anything which needs a constant payment plan) has to be damn good for me to pay up for it (yay for being a poor uni student).
This video does look kinda good, at least. The usual MMORPG gameplay, with a few slightly small differences thrown in. No idea how this will end up, but I'll be keeping an eye on it. ^_^

 

[ShakerSilver]

9 races huh? Someones getting the cut and I didn't see any khajiit. I guess they are already planing ahead with expansion packs.

Actually it's the Imperial who are not playable in the game, since they are loyal to the evil empire and don't belong to any of the factions.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Much longer ago than that even. Steam engines existed 2000 years ago, and possibly even earlier than that. It just took a while for anyone to work out any practical use for them.

True, but I was mostly talking about the modern steam engine in it's iteration that allowed for the industrial revolution.

Morrowind had instantaneous teleportation and fast moving levitation. Removed for gameplay/engine reasons in Oblivion and Skyrim, but in the lore a very fast courier service would clearly be possible.

Wouldn't that be for powerful mages though? The kind who I doubt would be very interested in carrying letters around for people? It would be like going to school for 10 years to get your PhD in engineering and then the job you get offered is carrying letters around for people.

 

[waj9876]

Oh hey. Actual gameplay. And not just the creators talking about what they were hoping to do, calling the videos of that "gameplay" is just so...I was worried they weren't actually showing anything because it was going to be fucking horrible.

This actually looks good. I'm surprised.

 

[The Funslinger]

It's always amazing with worlds like this, how a thousand years before armor and technology look exactly the same as they do in the current games that are apparently set far later.

Suspension of disbelief only gets you so far.

That's usually my one gripe with fantasy settings. Some of them (and in my head I'm thinking about the Game of Thrones Universe) have had civilized society for thousands of years, yet still rely on horses, fire, etc. No steam, no electricity, nada.

You would think they'd have more technology by then, if you juxtaposition it to the real world's timeline of events regarding human civilization and inventions.

Well there are still civilizations in certain areas of the world living a stone age lifestyle, completely unaware of modern technology.

Advancement is by chance.

 

[Kahani]

Wouldn't that be for powerful mages though? The kind who I doubt would be very interested in carrying letters around for people? It would be like going to school for 10 years to get your PhD in engineering and then the job you get offered is carrying letters around for people.

No, it was just one of the two fast travel options and was available to any member of the mage's guild (or House Telvanni I think) for a small fee. So while it wasn't easily available to everyone whenever they want, it's clearly common and easy enough to allow many people to engage in regular long-distance travel.

Importantly, remember we're not actually talking about something like a postal service, we're talking about how major technological advances might be able to spread across a fantasy world. A powerful mage might not want to spend their time delivering regular people's letters, but they may well be interested in carrying news of a working steam engine or gun to their fellow mages. The point is that you don't necessarily need widespread global communication like the internet for things to spread, you just need such communication to be possible at all, even if only to relatively few people.