Introducing the new Doctor

maninahat

New member
Nov 8, 2007
4,397
0
0
Hawki said:
gigastar said:
Aaaand of course for some people its not enough~

"Doctor Who is an overwhelmingly white show." Gee, I wonder if it's because it's a UK show, and most of the UK's citizens are Anglo-Celtic in ethnicity? I mean, isn't the whole purpose of equality that people should be judged entirely on their merits, regardless of skin colour? Like, I'd like to think that the actresses for Martha Jones and Bill were chosen because they were the best choice, not because of the colour of their skin.
If you're going to be pedantic about demographics, then realistically the doctor should have been female in at least half of her incarnations, and at least one of them Asian British. Oh, but they're only casting their first female doctor now after 50 years? Guess that pedantry doesn't work to well.

If we go on the old argument that they hire actors on merit, that simply raises the broader problem of the lack of well known non-white actors who have been given significant acting roles in the past. To argue it is a meritocracy, you have to go with the argument that white men must have so far been inherently better actors than anyone else. Sarkeesian is absolutely right to acknowledge what we have here is just a baby step.
 

maninahat

New member
Nov 8, 2007
4,397
0
0
undeadsuitor said:
Silentpony said:
She better have a fucking magic schoolbus and take kids around on charming educational adventures!
Honestly, a much more whimsical and endearing tone for Dr who would be much appreciated. The last couple seasons have been fucking draining

I'd love for a kid companion.
Jesus, yes! Remember when we had those? And the writers weren't inserting sexual frisson between some space god and a sexy 20 something?
 

09philj

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 31, 2015
2,154
947
118
maninahat said:
undeadsuitor said:
Silentpony said:
She better have a fucking magic schoolbus and take kids around on charming educational adventures!
Honestly, a much more whimsical and endearing tone for Dr who would be much appreciated. The last couple seasons have been fucking draining

I'd love for a kid companion.
Jesus, yes! Remember when we had those? And the writers weren't inserting sexual frisson between some space god and a sexy 20 something?
Also, any companions who aren't feisty women from present day Earth. Even though Bill was reasonably likeable, since every primary companion of New Who has been cut from the same cloth I was still somewhat bored by her. Even if the formula was transferred to a male companion, nothing would change. I want to see more companions with actual competence and skills of their own again. Steven Taylor, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, Turlough, Ace, and Captain Jack all had things they could do other than look surprised, run away, or say something dumb.

An ideal companion for the Doctor to have at this point would be someone who in certain ways can match up to the Doctor, but has a very different way of handling situations. They can learn the value of doing things the Doctor's way, while the Doctor can also learn the value of doing things their way.
 

WindKnight

Quiet, Odd Sort.
Legacy
Jul 8, 2009
1,828
9
43
Cephiro
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
undeadsuitor said:
Silentpony said:
She better have a fucking magic schoolbus and take kids around on charming educational adventures!
Honestly, a much more whimsical and endearing tone for Dr who would be much appreciated. The last couple seasons have been fucking draining

I'd love for a kid companion.
I think the last child companion was Adric, and he was so obnoxious and hated the killed him off in a particularly final manner.
 

09philj

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 31, 2015
2,154
947
118
Windknight said:
undeadsuitor said:
Silentpony said:
She better have a fucking magic schoolbus and take kids around on charming educational adventures!
Honestly, a much more whimsical and endearing tone for Dr who would be much appreciated. The last couple seasons have been fucking draining

I'd love for a kid companion.
I think the last child companion was Adric, and he was so obnoxious and hated the killed him off in a particularly final manner.
Fan favourite Ace was a sixteen year old, albeit one armed to the teeth with IEDs and a baseball bat.
 

Hazy992

Why does this place still exist
Aug 1, 2010
5,265
0
0
I might give it another shot, seeing as how it's a new Doctor and a new show runner. Maybe it's the breath of fresh air the show needed, or maybe it will be completely awful. I like the idea of a female Doctor in principle but I am wary, the show hasn't exactly got the best track record of writing good female characters.

Haven't watched it since the first series with Peter Capaldi as the Doctor, show went to absolute dogshit.
 

Hawki

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 4, 2014
9,651
2,173
118
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
maninahat said:
If you're going to be pedantic about demographics, then realistically the doctor should have been female in at least half of her incarnations, and at least one of them Asian British. Oh, but they're only casting their first female doctor now after 50 years? Guess that pedantry doesn't work to well.
Except the idea of Time Lords switching genders wasn't introduced until NuWho, so the idea of 50/50 can't be applied retroactively. I don't recall anyone clamouring for male versions of Romana, Susan, Jenny, River Song, or the Rani for instance.

Course, the genie's out of the bottle at this point, but I've never been a fan of the gender flip idea, regardless of which way the flip is going. Rest assured if Romana returned for instance as a male, I'd find it as offputting as Missy conceptually. Which sucks, because I like Missy as a character, but I've never been able to equate her as being the Master. It's quite possible for the Doctor to have other childhood friends after all.

maninahat said:
If we go on the old argument that they hire actors on merit, that simply raises the broader problem of the lack of well known non-white actors who have been given significant acting roles in the past. To argue it is a meritocracy, you have to go with the argument that white men must have so far been inherently better actors than anyone else. Sarkeesian is absolutely right to acknowledge what we have here is just a baby step.
Except I'm not arguing that. No-one is. The ability of an actor isn't tied to race. I mean, let's look at the UK figures:

*White: 87.2%
*Black/African/Caribbean/Black British: 3%
*Indian 2.3%
*Pakistani 1.9%,
*Mixed 2%
*Other 3.7%

The statistics are iffy (go over 100% if you do the math), and they're from 2011, but under the premise that everyone within the UK has equality of opportunity, and acting ability isn't tied to ethnicity, then presumably, the number of actors within the UK should reflect this. Of course, not everyone has equality of opportunity, but even then, I'd like to think that even if you get a leg-up to the audition stage, the audition itself should be based entirely on ability, with the exception of doing casting where ethnicity is relavent (e.g. setting or character).

Shifting geography a little, in the libraries I work at, there's a lot of foreign videos/movies that show mono-ethnic casts based on their location (Vietnam, Turkey, India, China, etc.). I'm not put off by that, because a) race shouldn't matter except in special circumstances, and b) they're presumably based on the demographics of the country where they're shot at.
 

votemarvel

Elite Member
Legacy
Nov 29, 2009
1,353
3
43
Country
England
Veylon said:
brucethemoose said:
Veylon said:
Mechamorph said:
Back on topic, well this actress has the acting chops to succeed. She should get the chance to and if she makes a good Doctor, great. If not, well, regeneration time.
I thought this was supposed to be the last one. Twelve regenerations and that's it, right?
Ha.

Have you watched Dr. Who recently? They'll find a way to explain it.
My only exposure to the actual show is a series of reviews on SF Debris. Everything else I know about it is various hit-and-run references.

But yeah, it's a popular thing. I totally believe that they'll break every bit of internal consistency to keep it on the air as long as it's bringing in the cash.
The regeneration limit was an artificial one put in place by the Time Lords themselves. They believed that being immortal would drive them mad with power.

A balance was struck with the Regeneration limit. They have been shown to be able to give new cycles of regeneration however, as when they offered a new set to the Master in The Five Doctors. The Master may very well be a madman but he would know if this was not a possibility.

So the get out they used for Matt Smith regenerating to Peter Capaldi was established years ago in the series.

One thing I would like to add on the subject of the new Doctor, if it doesn't work and turns out to be a flop, a male Doctor is only a regeneration away.
 

the December King

Member
Legacy
Mar 3, 2010
1,580
1
3
Hawki said:
maninahat said:
If you're going to be pedantic about demographics, then realistically the doctor should have been female in at least half of her incarnations, and at least one of them Asian British. Oh, but they're only casting their first female doctor now after 50 years? Guess that pedantry doesn't work to well.
Except the idea of Time Lords switching genders wasn't introduced until NuWho, so the idea of 50/50 can't be applied retroactively. I don't recall anyone clamouring for male versions of Romana, Susan, Jenny, River Song, or the Rani for instance.

Course, the genie's out of the bottle at this point, but I've never been a fan of the gender flip idea, regardless of which way the flip is going. Rest assured if Romana returned for instance as a male, I'd find it as offputting as Missy conceptually. Which sucks, because I like Missy as a character, but I've never been able to equate her as being the Master. It's quite possible for the Doctor to have other childhood friends after all.
I'd like to rephrase my earlier feelings on the idea of the Doctor regenerating as a woman, and back Hawki's post here- I don't think I like the idea of gender flips, and though Doctor Who has a fun gimmick to explain it, I'm just not into it.
 
Feb 26, 2014
668
0
0
ArcaneGamer said:
Captain Marvelous said:
I have no stakes in this, so imma just sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch the inevitable shit show.


I've never seen Doctor Who. I was about to watch a season on Hulu, but... I have no idea what happened, I just didn't end up watching it.
Tea, good sir? =D Shall we enjoy the show together?
 

SoliterDan

New member
Jun 27, 2017
37
0
0
Darth Rosenberg said:
Does "social justice bullshit" actually translate as 'politics or social issues that I don't agree with/care about'? That's typically what it seems to mean.
Yes. Yes it does. Right now, too many shows and western forums are literally hijacked by SJW's and anti-SJW's and all I want is to be left alone, doing my thing. Maybe to you it's not that bad, but as of now, I'm literally surrounded by constant demagogues, shouting stuff that is equally correct and no matter where I go, there's always either a thread where two sides break pikes on each other (like this one) or another thing I liked to watch gets on the fem-hype train, literally saying "as a feminist and a woman and and actor" and such. There's no end to this!

That and usually, when people start to hype up the actor being X, instead of actors pedigree, it rarely means that the result will be in any way good (looking at you, Fembusters).

And, yea, that's why I rarely post here - I've spoken my opinion. Now I'm scurrying back into my hole, writing game design documents. At least orcs don't talk about their female representation all the time.
 

rosac

New member
Sep 13, 2008
1,205
0
0
I actually liked Capaldi when the writing let him have his moments. Serious gravitas added to the role after Smith. Except the writing was 90% wank because of Clara. Fucking. Oswald.

New doctor is less important to me than new writing team, I hope they do use stuff about her sex in some of the episodes (like they do with Bill/Martha and racial tensions at times) but it doesn't become ridiculous. She is still "The Doctor" after all.
 

ArcaneGamer

New member
Dec 21, 2014
283
0
0
Captain Marvelous said:
ArcaneGamer said:
Captain Marvelous said:
I have no stakes in this, so imma just sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch the inevitable shit show.


I've never seen Doctor Who. I was about to watch a season on Hulu, but... I have no idea what happened, I just didn't end up watching it.
Tea, good sir? =D Shall we enjoy the show together?
(Notices a chair fly past our heads) Sometimes it's the little things that mean the most...=)
 

RobertEHouse

Former Mad Man
Mar 29, 2012
152
0
0
Megalodon said:
Serious question to any old-Who buffs. Is this whole 'timelords can regenerate as either gender, regardless of previous incarnation' something with an established canon pedigree, or something that has arisen purely in the tragically awful Moffat era (because I don't seem to recall it ever appearing in the RTD era)?
No in 1960's during i believe the second time lord, it was explained that female and male timelords exist but they cannot regenerated into different genders. When years later they did the relaunch of Dr. Who they followed much of the cannon they had. It only started to fall off the rails later on, as it seemed BBC wanted more of a fan base. *enter David Tennant as the 10th doctor who brought in a younger audience.

In truth the gender change was going to happen because the head of BBC at the time after Matt Smith (11th doctor) stated publicly she wanted to have a female doctor. A fact which Moffat actually challenged against during his time on the show as it turned out. It was covered by a BBC article that was publish when Peter Capaldi was picked as the (12th Doctor).

During the 11th doctor's near end run, The master made appearance as a female timelord. She then kept insisting that the doctor and they had been a couple. Sadly, this goes against cannon of the history of the show and derails the fact that they were childhood friends at one point. That they both were at one point married to someone different and assumed each had a child of some sort years later. But all of this was a compromise of sorts for Moffat to the studio in placating them for a extension of his contract because he was not sure he wanted to leave.

So in truth it was Moffat that caused this ,but not in the way you would think. Besides his faults he wanted to keep parts of the cannon true, although he did seem to take liberties at time with the doctor any way. Most fans are sure divided on his actions including me on how the show developed. When he finally decided to leave Dr. Who Moffat started to hand the rains over to other directors which allowed more influence by the studio heads. Since the head of BBC head had long publicly mentioned she wanted to have a female doctor.Even before Capaldi had even started shooting the first episode. We now have a female doctor after Moffat had long left and the studio has complete creative input.

I wish it all had ended a different but Sadly, this is the dirty world of entertainment it seems. The cannon is starting to get lost, and the doctors although great actors are seemed more aiming for really young audiences.Each one is getting younger and younger until Capaldi that they are around the same age as their companions.

Although i have ejections to actress they picked it is not for her sex, but for the fact that the studio did not seal up the cracks in the story they blew up to get her. Although she could end up being a good fit, its hard to say. A lot of things are going to have to be explained and actually her performance is going to have to outstanding. To bring in people that are skeptical of a female doctor who actually kept this show alive.

Favorite Dr.Who's.

William Hartnell
Jon Pertwee
Tom Baker
Collin Baker
David Tennant
Peter Capaldi
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
8,700
2,881
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
rosac said:
I actually liked Capaldi when the writing let him have his moments. Serious gravitas added to the role after Smith. Except the writing was 90% wank because of Clara. Fucking. Oswald.

New doctor is less important to me than new writing team, I hope they do use stuff about her sex in some of the episodes (like they do with Bill/Martha and racial tensions at times) but it doesn't become ridiculous. She is still "The Doctor" after all.
Sometimes I think people forgot that Rose existed. All Doctor-Human romances suck. I can understand not liking Clara, but Rose was worse. (I actually think Amy was pretty bad too... Screw it. Donna was the only good one.)

EDIT to make sense
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
18,674
3,587
118
RobertEHouse said:
No in 1960's during i believe the second time lord, it was explained that female and male timelords exist but they cannot regenerated into different genders.
Er...not in the show they didn't. Maybe in a spin off book or comic.

RobertEHouse said:
Sadly, this goes against cannon of the history of the show and derails the fact that they were childhood friends at one point.
The relationship between the two was never established, at least not in Old Who. Originally they were going to have the Master as the evil version of the Doctor, but Delgado died before that was fleshed out and they re-used the idea with the Valeyard.

Though, Dr Who canon has always been a bit loose. When were the UNIT stories set, for example?