IO Changed Hitman: Absolution Following Nun Controversy

[fozzy360]

Anyone who actually complained about that trailer didn't play the previous hitman games, or was just trying to shake up some page hits.

Implausible as bondage outfitted nuns wielding assault rifles and bazookas may be, it fits right in with what hitman is about.

Yeah, nice assumptions there, bro. If anything, I'd have to say your familiarity with the series is somewhat lacking.

 

[Xeldrak]

Yeah, I sure hope IO changes this part of the game...

...there should be some half-naked strippers fighting on 47's side!

 

[Treblaine]

Yes, Ninja Assassin palaces would be ridiculously implausible, equally sending a troop of female assassins dressed as sexy nuns.

Hey look at this!!!

http://www.afp.com/en/news/topstories/63-year-old-engineer-japans-last-ninja

Actual ninja. Dressed in black.

Who would of thunk it?

Now produce the pictures of female assassins dressed in "Nun Themed Gothic Fetishwear" (Fucking bondage nuns. GTFO) . Oh wait, you can't, because that's not a real thing.

That's a bloody theme park. Not an actual hangout for real murderous assassins.

It's as relevant as me posting NSFW pics from a sex-club where a nun theme is present.

 

[TAdamson]

Yes, Ninja Assassin palaces would be ridiculously implausible, equally sending a troop of female assassins dressed as sexy nuns.

Hey look at this!!!

http://www.afp.com/en/news/topstories/63-year-old-engineer-japans-last-ninja

Actual ninja. Dressed in black.

Who would of thunk it?

Now produce the pictures of female assassins dressed in "Nun Themed Gothic Fetishwear" (Fucking bondage nuns. GTFO) . Oh wait, you can't, because that's not a real thing.

That's a bloody theme park. Not an actual hangout for real murderous assassins.

It's as relevant as me posting NSFW pics from a sex-club where a nun theme is present.

Hey that was one of your points. Nun themed sex clubs. And the ninjas weren't assassins were they? They were guards.

Sorry, you lose.

 

[dalek sec]

I still think the whole thing was overblown, and the only reason it seemed to rustle feathers was because it was a guy fighting women, 'scuse me, scantily clad women. (who mind you had just tried to murder the shit out of him) Leaves me wondering if the reaction would have been the same had the devs used Rambo esque men disguised as a bunch of monks.

Still it's hard to actually care, but something about the logic for why we should be upset just nags at me as rather flawed.

I think you and I are in the same boat KeyMaster, I just don't see why everyone is throwing such a hissy fit over this trailer. My gods, you think they actually killed someone in it for kicks.

But yeah, if it was just Agent 47 killing male killers dressed as monks no one would bat a eye at it.

 

[Treblaine]

Yes, Ninja Assassin palaces would be ridiculously implausible, equally sending a troop of female assassins dressed as sexy nuns.

Hey look at this!!!

http://www.afp.com/en/news/topstories/63-year-old-engineer-japans-last-ninja

Actual ninja. Dressed in black.

Who would of thunk it?

Now produce the pictures of female assassins dressed in "Nun Themed Gothic Fetishwear" (Fucking bondage nuns. GTFO) . Oh wait, you can't, because that's not a real thing.

That's a bloody theme park. Not an actual hangout for real murderous assassins.

It's as relevant as me posting NSFW pics from a sex-club where a nun theme is present.

Hey that was one of your points. Nun themed sex clubs. And the ninjas weren't assassins were they? They were guards.

Sorry, you lose.

What?!? Your logic is backward.

My argument is that in the REAL WORLD trained killers dress as neither sexy nuns nor black-robed ninjas, in the real world people only dress like that as performers in entertainment. But Hitman is not the real world it is a video game and unlike call of duty it has ridiculous things like black clad ninja palaces... and Sexy Nun-themed assassins are also not out of place in that universe.

Your logic is just: "huh! Point repeated! I declare victory! Yay me!"

 

[Treblaine]

I still think the whole thing was overblown, and the only reason it seemed to rustle feathers was because it was a guy fighting women, 'scuse me, scantily clad women. (who mind you had just tried to murder the shit out of him) Leaves me wondering if the reaction would have been the same had the devs used Rambo esque men disguised as a bunch of monks.

Still it's hard to actually care, but something about the logic for why we should be upset just nags at me as rather flawed.

I think you and I are in the same boat KeyMaster, I just don't see why everyone is throwing such a hissy fit over this trailer. My gods, you think they actually killed someone in it for kicks.

But yeah, if it was just Agent 47 killing male killers dressed as monks no one would bat a eye at it.

Sexy monks, don't forget:

 

[TAdamson]

Yes, Ninja Assassin palaces would be ridiculously implausible, equally sending a troop of female assassins dressed as sexy nuns.

Hey look at this!!!

http://www.afp.com/en/news/topstories/63-year-old-engineer-japans-last-ninja

Actual ninja. Dressed in black.

Who would of thunk it?

Now produce the pictures of female assassins dressed in "Nun Themed Gothic Fetishwear" (Fucking bondage nuns. GTFO) . Oh wait, you can't, because that's not a real thing.

That's a bloody theme park. Not an actual hangout for real murderous assassins.

It's as relevant as me posting NSFW pics from a sex-club where a nun theme is present.

Hey that was one of your points. Nun themed sex clubs. And the ninjas weren't assassins were they? They were guards.

Sorry, you lose.

What?!? Your logic is backward.

My argument is that in the REAL WORLD trained killers dress as neither sexy nuns nor black-robed ninjas, in the real world people only dress like that as performers in entertainment. But Hitman is not the real world it is a video game and unlike call of duty it has ridiculous things like black clad ninja palaces... and Sexy Nun-themed assassins are also not out of place in that universe.

Your logic is just: "huh! Point repeated! I declare victory! Yay me!"

So in the real world guards can't dress as ninjas for entertainment huh? Seems to me that would be a legitimate reason for people to dress their guards as ninjas at a Japanese palace, or as birds at a carnival, or gimp suits in an industrial nightclub.


But your point is "look at these crazy costumes these people are wearing in private, therefore it's just s likely that they'd wear even crazier costumes in public"

You logic isn't backward. It's completely non-sequential.

And you repeat that over and over again, along with completely baseless and juvenile accusations of prudishness and having not played the game (Along with some breathtaking pedantry), despite how ridiculous that is.


So yes, I declare victory.

 

[TAdamson]

I still think the whole thing was overblown, and the only reason it seemed to rustle feathers was because it was a guy fighting women, 'scuse me, scantily clad women. (who mind you had just tried to murder the shit out of him) Leaves me wondering if the reaction would have been the same had the devs used Rambo esque men disguised as a bunch of monks.

Still it's hard to actually care, but something about the logic for why we should be upset just nags at me as rather flawed.

I think you and I are in the same boat KeyMaster, I just don't see why everyone is throwing such a hissy fit over this trailer. My gods, you think they actually killed someone in it for kicks.

But yeah, if it was just Agent 47 killing male killers dressed as monks no one would bat a eye at it.

I have more of a problem with it not contextually making sense. Most of the other crazy costumes in Hitman are location specific but here it just seems incongruous. And I'd have that problem if the killers were dressed as monks as well.

This does also have added the problem that it was also blatant pandering. I don't have a problem with adversaries dressed like this but do have to ask what justification the universe's fiction has to give for it.

Are they on their way to a Gothic Nightclub and just happen to stop off to kill 47 before they hit the bar?

 

[rbstewart7263]

Tend to?
-Ellen Ripley
-Sarah Connor
-Jenette Vasquez
-Tank Girl
-Trinity

Nope.

Listing a few examples of strong women who weren't raped doesn't disprove my argument that tough women tend to get raped. Spend more time looking up the rape tropes. It'll save me the trouble of having to list how often rape is used in character development.

Well I actually looked this trope up on tv tropes.com There was no rape makes you strong trope. There was a rape as backstory trope but the various after effects varied wildly and none were ever stronger for the act in andof itself. A character from the young avengers used the bow and arrow practice as a way to cope with rape and it helped therapeutically. it did not however make her a better shot or give her powers.

The only mention of said trope existing was in reference to the recent tomb raider trailer itself. The evidence at hand seems to be that such trope was invented to create the appearance of rampant misogyny in media.

 

[maninahat]

Tend to?
-Ellen Ripley
-Sarah Connor
-Jenette Vasquez
-Tank Girl
-Trinity

Nope.

Listing a few examples of strong women who weren't raped doesn't disprove my argument that tough women tend to get raped. Spend more time looking up the rape tropes. It'll save me the trouble of having to list how often rape is used in character development.

Well I actually looked this trope up on tv tropes.com There was no rape makes you strong trope. There was a rape as backstory trope but the various after effects varied wildly and none were ever stronger for the act in andof itself. A character from the young avengers used the bow and arrow practice as a way to cope with rape and it helped therapeutically. it did not however make her a better shot or give her powers...

Thanks for looking it up. What matters is that rape drives the character to be what they are in the first place: the rape was what encouraged her to become an ass kicking costumed vigilante. Without the rape, she'd be a normal person. Super heroes often have a traumatic history, which inspires them to become a hero in the first place (e.g. Batman's dead parents). The difference is that with female characters, rape is a far more common choice of backstory. You saw how many female comic book characters it happens to in the "Rape as Backstory" section - heck, some were even retconned, so that a rape backstory could be fitted in. That's where the unfortunate implications come from - Why is it a necessary? And do people really want to see it in their comics?

 

[MonkeyPunch]

Meh I hope they didn't change too much. I really didn't empaphise with most peoples issues over that trailer to very honest and I thought it was pretty cool in a sort of grindhousey way.
Though my only niggle with it was that until that trailer we hadn't really seen anything in that style.
But not like I know the game so if they can make grindhouseque style work, all the better.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Tend to?
-Ellen Ripley
-Sarah Connor
-Jenette Vasquez
-Tank Girl
-Trinity

Nope.

Listing a few examples of strong women who weren't raped doesn't disprove my argument that tough women tend to get raped. Spend more time looking up the rape tropes. It'll save me the trouble of having to list how often rape is used in character development.

Well I actually looked this trope up on tv tropes.com There was no rape makes you strong trope. There was a rape as backstory trope but the various after effects varied wildly and none were ever stronger for the act in andof itself. A character from the young avengers used the bow and arrow practice as a way to cope with rape and it helped therapeutically. it did not however make her a better shot or give her powers...

Thanks for looking it up. What matters is that rape drives the character to be what they are in the first place: the rape was what encouraged her to become an ass kicking costumed vigilante. Without the rape, she'd be a normal person. Super heroes often have a traumatic history, which inspires them to become a hero in the first place (e.g. Batman's dead parents). The difference is that with female characters, rape is a far more common choice of backstory. You saw how many female comic book characters it happens to in the "Rape as Backstory" section - heck, some were even retconned, so that a rape backstory could be fitted in. That's where the unfortunate implications come from - Why is it a necessary? And do people really want to see it in their comics?

Perhaps its not lazy writing or hell a way to try to empower the disempowered. Society generates a victim mindset into rape victims. Sound like Im being an ass? A little but allow me to explain.

Being the victim of rape sucks on a dark level akin to I imagine the way slenderman makes me feel but probably worse. Collectively as a society and for alot of us men who grew up taught to protect the girl its hard for anyone to not feel pity and indeed often times I do end up with that feeling. I dont like my friends being powerless and fucked by others and I dont like that Im useless to help. In any case one does need to carry on and to learn how to do so and thats where hawkeye in the young avengers comes in.

See back in the day being deflowered like that meant you were useless,soiled. Sure people felt bad but you were lucky if you married the 5th cousin of a landed noble before you could ever hope to be Lady Stark. Today people "expect" and "allow" you to be the victim which can enable alot both good and bad. It can enable understanding and time to cope. It can also enable for example: A fall into drug dependency,cutting, perpetual self loathing, an avoidance complex or just plain afraid to leave the house.

Im not saying the victim is to blame here, Im saying that if I had the choice of one of my friends drawing into one of these holes "permanently" instead of "temporarily" and them picking up a bow as a form of therapy? inspired by what Im told is a tired trope.(I cant see how its anymore tired than any other trope but lets not hit that nail just yet) Well Ill take my men waving flags carrying a box shooter in each hand and my women picking up boxing gloves after traumatizing events. I dont want my friends to live in hell I want them to live. I think when handled at its best, said movie and game could be used for someone to deal and cope with trauma.

And there is some validity to the point that depending on the artist the subject could or should have been handled better. but thats a case by case basis and should be handled as such. not wholesale banning of a plot point.

and In this case I feel it was handled well,really well in fact. As susan arendt said in her article on the raider controversy."I get why people are upset, I really do. But I would rather not focus on what's knocking Lara down, and instead applaud the way she keeps getting back up" http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/9747-Get-Back-Up

 

[duchaked]

soooo maybe instead of a bunch of hot female assassins wearing sexy nun costumes they'll wear sexy nurse costumes?

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Ha, I'm wondering how they could make a backstory that puts sexy beaten up nuns in a politically correct context.

"They were part of an evil cult that stole nun costumes at night and wear them around to give all those loving Christians a bad name. Their master put chips inside them that explode unless they wear kinky latex dresses and walk around like strippers. Also, they're all clones of Hitler, so it's cool to rough them up."

 

[UnderCoverGuest]

WHAT. It's not that they're nuns, it's that THEY'RE ASSASSIN NUNS IN AGENT 47'S--hm, two warnings in a month? I'll lay off the capslock.

It's that they're assassin nuns...in the universe of Agent 47. That does not compute. Agent 47's world was realistic (if the guards were occasionally a bit omnipotent). The point is, Agent 47 wouldn't be punching guys to death and shooting nuns out to get him with a selection of very unsubtle weaponry.

GARGH! It's not about the damn nuns, it's about Agent 47's reputation as being a deadly and precise assassin who kills only as it pertains to his objective and doesn't draw attention to himself! I'm all for advancing a story and driving character plot development, but when you drive a character who is taken from a world of some effort at establishing realism (with some sci-fi elements as he's a clone and all that jazz), into a room full of assassin nuns and bodyguards to punch to death...well, it sort of pisses me off, at least!

I'm not some gamer jaded by nostalgic remembrance of those games I deemed "great" in days of olde--but I am a gamer who when he sees assassin nuns in fetish-wear going to kill a hitman who just one trailer before completely broke character by being seen and recognized at all before punching up a bunch of dudes...well, I look at it as a different game. A different genre. An alternate universe.

Also, getting rid of the entire team from the original games, including music composer and voice talent? Sort of a hint that you were gonna deviate from the original style of the games. I just think that original style is what made the games good, and what I enjoyed the most from it...so...bye.

Ninja Nuns...grr.

 

[maninahat]

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On one hand, I agree that the witers, in many cases, probably thought they were empowering the disempowered, when they wanted to tackle rape. Writers want to handle more serious issues, and that should be applauded, even when it comes to rape. I don't see a reason for why someone can't create compelling stories in which a person can ultimately overcome the worst of situations, and that includes a woman becoming a superhero after being raped.

On the other hand, these stories aren't made in a vacuum. We see this "rape as backstory" over and over, and often with the rape history being completely inconsistent with the character. Batman wanting to fight crime after his parents were murdered? That makes sense. Black Cat wanting to become a cat burglar after being raped? Less so. Writers wanted to copy Alan Moore's endeavours to tell adult stories, but many are clumsy in their attempt to handle such adult themes. The result is less of an inspiring tale about how a woman can overcome sexual assault, and more a tale of how a previously self-motivated female superhero has a rape shoehorned into their history. It's far removed from a careful handling of rape, and not what a lot of readers want in this day and age.

 

[MidnightSt]

I am still failing to see the reason why people got worked into a hissyfit over the trailer

*insert generic rant about game and fictions not having an effect on the real world expect through very unhinged individuals who were crazy even before buying the game*

...I was going to expand on your first sentence, and noticed the second one only after hitting the quote button and laying my hands down on the keyboard. So to make it short, consider the generic rant to be inserted here.

 

[Brian Gaffney]

It is understandable that IO would apologize if some people are offended. True art will inevitably embarras or offend someone, whether they are the creators or the viewers. You can't live on planet Earth and never be offended or challenged by anything.

That said, I am surprised by the reaction to this trailer. It isn't THAT bold considering all that exists in media. Personally I just love violent females in games. I wish there were more high quality blockbusters rivaling the Halos and GoW's that featured tons more women with guns and swords, be they half naked or not. I don't care what they're wearing, I just want to see them as part of the action.

This is unrelated, but I always wanted to see a game that takes place in a fantasy/matriarchal universe where women are the main aggressive and competitive gender, gunning eac