Irish: are any of you it?

[aba1]

I lived in Canada all my life but my heritage is fully Irish. I got the whole ginger thing going on n everything

 

[KoalaKid]

Spoiler: Previous Convo

If it makes you happy, yes

Actually most of the people here meet your "requirements".

Yes, all of the "I'm a third" or "My grandfather was 100%" makes them all Irish.

Most of the people here aren't, and the folk from new world countries seem to have some sort of inherited patriotism for a place they have never been to. I laid out fair criteria, it could be said that you're only Irish if you're born and raised there. People need to be satisfied with who they are, and if we're lucky, ignore this ridiculous "pride" in a political measurement.

I'm pretty sure these people are claiming ethnicity by being of Irish decent. Their not claiming nationality and if they have an interest in the culture of their ancestors whats the problem with that? Also, If your saying that Irish Americans have lost rights to Irish culture because of their ancestors acclamation to another dominate culture you might want to ask yourself why out of the native Irish only something like 15% of them speak their own language.

I'd imagine 300 years of British rule largely put an end to native Irish speakers, and unlike the Welsh, reclaiming the language isn't a common Irish goal.

I have no problem with learning about other cultures, but they might as well learn about all northern Germanic cultures, and then African ones, because by the same concept they originally came from those places as well. Yet, I don't see the "Irish" Americans doing much of that, I see them fucking about on St Patrick's Day, claiming patriotism for a country as far removed from their own culture as any European country.

...they do learn about all the northern Germanic cultures, and the African ones. That's why at my college we have what's called "cultural studies" which include African studies, German studies, etc. Its also why my city has international days in the park where learning centers are set up to teach people about different cultures, why conventions are held for Americans of all ethnicity where they can reconnect to the people or culture they descend from, and its why you have Americans that study Celtic music or the music of whatever people they descend from. I could go on with many other examples if you'd like

Do they stand up and proudly exclaim that they are african-northern european-germanic-celtic-irish americans? Or dot hey go around exclaiming that they are Irish, when they are in fact American. It's a different culture, and they are not Irish. I got taught about Japanese history, but that don't make me one of them.

I don't know how else to explain this to you, their not claiming nationality their claiming ethnicity. Their ethnicity is non-negotiable, if they descend from alien, Chinese fruit bat, Scottish kangaroo and they happen to live in the states then they are without question, without compromise, absolutely, inherently an American/alien/Chinese fruit bat/Scottish kangaroo. This fact cannot be refuted, and in a hundred thousand years if Ireland sinks into the ocean and all that ever was or could have been related to that culture disapFUCKINGpears the descendants of those who once resided in Ireland will remain Irish, and not the devil himself could change that. Again their !nationality! is American their !ethnicity! is Irish, so they ARE Irish.

So that makes you African?

We have gathered here on this fine day, and have witnessed your greatness, the sheer might of your unyielding ineptitude, and your, dare I say courage to preserve your nonsensicality in the face of overwhelming logic. Therefore by the powers vested in me by this here internet I deem the unteachable. May you now go out into the world, and continue to dream the wild dreams you dared to dream when you were young, to unknow the knowable, to read without understanding, and to type while sleeping.

Oooh, a sarcastic answer, the final retort of those without argument. You claim someone was a right to the heritage of their ancestors? Well they all came from Africa originally. If the natural history of mankind is a subject of which you lack knowledge, I recommend learning it, it will serve you well.

Patriotism is for the small minded anyway, but patriotism for a country of which of you no living connection is beyond stupid. Non-Irish people have no claim to Irish history and culture, just like Non-Japanese have no right to Japanese history and culture. Appreciate it if you will, but it is not "yours" and you are not one of them.

I didn't resort to comedy, because I lack argument (also all of my comments so far have been laced with sarcasm, I thought you would have noticed), I did so because firstly I thought it was funny and that you might think it was funny as well, and secondly because I'm not sure if your even reading my posts. Also as far as patriotism goes, how the hell did you get patriotism out of anything I have said? Patriotism comes not from ethnicity, but from nationalism! and I'm surely not patriotic, I'm just trying my hardest to get you to understand what these people are saying and the difference between nationality and ethnicity, but you obviously turn a deaf ear to anything I say because your just waiting to spew out the same babble you have been spewing from the beginning.

Just answer this question, (if you are ethnically speaking) Irish can you be anything else or not Irish if you want to? and If you say African I swear I'll reach through this computer and pull your nose hair out! (joking)

 

[Verlander]

Spoiler: Previous Convo

If it makes you happy, yes

Actually most of the people here meet your "requirements".

Yes, all of the "I'm a third" or "My grandfather was 100%" makes them all Irish.

Most of the people here aren't, and the folk from new world countries seem to have some sort of inherited patriotism for a place they have never been to. I laid out fair criteria, it could be said that you're only Irish if you're born and raised there. People need to be satisfied with who they are, and if we're lucky, ignore this ridiculous "pride" in a political measurement.

I'm pretty sure these people are claiming ethnicity by being of Irish decent. Their not claiming nationality and if they have an interest in the culture of their ancestors whats the problem with that? Also, If your saying that Irish Americans have lost rights to Irish culture because of their ancestors acclamation to another dominate culture you might want to ask yourself why out of the native Irish only something like 15% of them speak their own language.

I'd imagine 300 years of British rule largely put an end to native Irish speakers, and unlike the Welsh, reclaiming the language isn't a common Irish goal.

I have no problem with learning about other cultures, but they might as well learn about all northern Germanic cultures, and then African ones, because by the same concept they originally came from those places as well. Yet, I don't see the "Irish" Americans doing much of that, I see them fucking about on St Patrick's Day, claiming patriotism for a country as far removed from their own culture as any European country.

...they do learn about all the northern Germanic cultures, and the African ones. That's why at my college we have what's called "cultural studies" which include African studies, German studies, etc. Its also why my city has international days in the park where learning centers are set up to teach people about different cultures, why conventions are held for Americans of all ethnicity where they can reconnect to the people or culture they descend from, and its why you have Americans that study Celtic music or the music of whatever people they descend from. I could go on with many other examples if you'd like

Do they stand up and proudly exclaim that they are african-northern european-germanic-celtic-irish americans? Or dot hey go around exclaiming that they are Irish, when they are in fact American. It's a different culture, and they are not Irish. I got taught about Japanese history, but that don't make me one of them.

I don't know how else to explain this to you, their not claiming nationality their claiming ethnicity. Their ethnicity is non-negotiable, if they descend from alien, Chinese fruit bat, Scottish kangaroo and they happen to live in the states then they are without question, without compromise, absolutely, inherently an American/alien/Chinese fruit bat/Scottish kangaroo. This fact cannot be refuted, and in a hundred thousand years if Ireland sinks into the ocean and all that ever was or could have been related to that culture disapFUCKINGpears the descendants of those who once resided in Ireland will remain Irish, and not the devil himself could change that. Again their !nationality! is American their !ethnicity! is Irish, so they ARE Irish.

So that makes you African?

We have gathered here on this fine day, and have witnessed your greatness, the sheer might of your unyielding ineptitude, and your, dare I say courage to preserve your nonsensicality in the face of overwhelming logic. Therefore by the powers vested in me by this here internet I deem the unteachable. May you now go out into the world, and continue to dream the wild dreams you dared to dream when you were young, to unknow the knowable, to read without understanding, and to type while sleeping.

Oooh, a sarcastic answer, the final retort of those without argument. You claim someone was a right to the heritage of their ancestors? Well they all came from Africa originally. If the natural history of mankind is a subject of which you lack knowledge, I recommend learning it, it will serve you well.

Patriotism is for the small minded anyway, but patriotism for a country of which of you no living connection is beyond stupid. Non-Irish people have no claim to Irish history and culture, just like Non-Japanese have no right to Japanese history and culture. Appreciate it if you will, but it is not "yours" and you are not one of them.

I didn't resort to comedy, because I lack argument (also all of my comments so far have been laced with sarcasm, I thought you would have noticed), I did so because firstly I thought it was funny and that you might think it was funny as well, and secondly because I'm not sure if your even reading my posts. Also as far as patriotism goes, how the hell did you get patriotism out of anything I have said? Patriotism comes not from ethnicity, but from nationalism! and I'm surely not patriotic, I'm just trying my hardest to get you to understand what these people are saying and the difference between nationality and ethnicity, but you obviously turn a deaf ear to anything I say because your just waiting to spew out the same babble you have been spewing from the beginning.

Just answer this question, (if you are ethnically speaking) Irish can you be anything else or not Irish if you want to? and If you say African I swear I'll reach through this computer and pull your nose hair out! (joking)

Africaa.... ok, ok.

No. I don't see ethnicity as something you can choose to subscribe to, it's just something that you are. It's a bit like the colour of your skin. You weren't awarded it, you didn't earn it, and therefore I don't see what there is to be proud of about it.

You're right, I am missing what you're saying, and I read back, and I'm still missing it. I don't understand this claim to ancestry. Why be proud of, or embrace, something that has absolutely no impact on your life. To me it's very similar to a real life situation that I'm in: my Dad married a Phillipino lady, and they have a kid together. The kid of dark hair, asian skin and features, while I am blonde northern Germanic type. We're technically half-brothers, and have a direct, present day relationship. I don't make any claims to his heritage or culture. If he is presently 50% related to me, surely I have more in common with his culture that a 33% relation that wasn't even alive when you were, or family that's even more obscure?

I DO understand why it's done, with the new world countries being such a melting pot, an identity is an easy way to connect and create a feeling of community. However, it's not the 1900's anymore, we live in a globalised world, and being American (or similar) is now a culture and nation in it's own right. It's time to let go of these silly identities, that have been built up in the imaginations of many, and put on a pedestal.

 

[KoalaKid]

Spoiler: Previous Convo

If it makes you happy, yes

Actually most of the people here meet your "requirements".

Yes, all of the "I'm a third" or "My grandfather was 100%" makes them all Irish.

Most of the people here aren't, and the folk from new world countries seem to have some sort of inherited patriotism for a place they have never been to. I laid out fair criteria, it could be said that you're only Irish if you're born and raised there. People need to be satisfied with who they are, and if we're lucky, ignore this ridiculous "pride" in a political measurement.

I'm pretty sure these people are claiming ethnicity by being of Irish decent. Their not claiming nationality and if they have an interest in the culture of their ancestors whats the problem with that? Also, If your saying that Irish Americans have lost rights to Irish culture because of their ancestors acclamation to another dominate culture you might want to ask yourself why out of the native Irish only something like 15% of them speak their own language.

I'd imagine 300 years of British rule largely put an end to native Irish speakers, and unlike the Welsh, reclaiming the language isn't a common Irish goal.

I have no problem with learning about other cultures, but they might as well learn about all northern Germanic cultures, and then African ones, because by the same concept they originally came from those places as well. Yet, I don't see the "Irish" Americans doing much of that, I see them fucking about on St Patrick's Day, claiming patriotism for a country as far removed from their own culture as any European country.

...they do learn about all the northern Germanic cultures, and the African ones. That's why at my college we have what's called "cultural studies" which include African studies, German studies, etc. Its also why my city has international days in the park where learning centers are set up to teach people about different cultures, why conventions are held for Americans of all ethnicity where they can reconnect to the people or culture they descend from, and its why you have Americans that study Celtic music or the music of whatever people they descend from. I could go on with many other examples if you'd like

Do they stand up and proudly exclaim that they are african-northern european-germanic-celtic-irish americans? Or dot hey go around exclaiming that they are Irish, when they are in fact American. It's a different culture, and they are not Irish. I got taught about Japanese history, but that don't make me one of them.

I don't know how else to explain this to you, their not claiming nationality their claiming ethnicity. Their ethnicity is non-negotiable, if they descend from alien, Chinese fruit bat, Scottish kangaroo and they happen to live in the states then they are without question, without compromise, absolutely, inherently an American/alien/Chinese fruit bat/Scottish kangaroo. This fact cannot be refuted, and in a hundred thousand years if Ireland sinks into the ocean and all that ever was or could have been related to that culture disapFUCKINGpears the descendants of those who once resided in Ireland will remain Irish, and not the devil himself could change that. Again their !nationality! is American their !ethnicity! is Irish, so they ARE Irish.

So that makes you African?

We have gathered here on this fine day, and have witnessed your greatness, the sheer might of your unyielding ineptitude, and your, dare I say courage to preserve your nonsensicality in the face of overwhelming logic. Therefore by the powers vested in me by this here internet I deem the unteachable. May you now go out into the world, and continue to dream the wild dreams you dared to dream when you were young, to unknow the knowable, to read without understanding, and to type while sleeping.

Oooh, a sarcastic answer, the final retort of those without argument. You claim someone was a right to the heritage of their ancestors? Well they all came from Africa originally. If the natural history of mankind is a subject of which you lack knowledge, I recommend learning it, it will serve you well.

Patriotism is for the small minded anyway, but patriotism for a country of which of you no living connection is beyond stupid. Non-Irish people have no claim to Irish history and culture, just like Non-Japanese have no right to Japanese history and culture. Appreciate it if you will, but it is not "yours" and you are not one of them.

I didn't resort to comedy, because I lack argument (also all of my comments so far have been laced with sarcasm, I thought you would have noticed), I did so because firstly I thought it was funny and that you might think it was funny as well, and secondly because I'm not sure if your even reading my posts. Also as far as patriotism goes, how the hell did you get patriotism out of anything I have said? Patriotism comes not from ethnicity, but from nationalism! and I'm surely not patriotic, I'm just trying my hardest to get you to understand what these people are saying and the difference between nationality and ethnicity, but you obviously turn a deaf ear to anything I say because your just waiting to spew out the same babble you have been spewing from the beginning.

Just answer this question, (if you are ethnically speaking) Irish can you be anything else or not Irish if you want to? and If you say African I swear I'll reach through this computer and pull your nose hair out! (joking)

Africaa.... ok, ok.

No. I don't see ethnicity as something you can choose to subscribe to, it's just something that you are. It's a bit like the colour of your skin. You weren't awarded it, you didn't earn it, and therefore I don't see what there is to be proud of about it.

You're right, I am missing what you're saying, and I read back, and I'm still missing it. I don't understand this claim to ancestry. Why be proud of, or embrace, something that has absolutely no impact on your life. To me it's very similar to a real life situation that I'm in: my Dad married a Phillipino lady, and they have a kid together. The kid of dark hair, asian skin and features, while I am blonde northern Germanic type. We're technically half-brothers, and have a direct, present day relationship. I don't make any claims to his heritage or culture. If he is presently 50% related to me, surely I have more in common with his culture that a 33% relation that wasn't even alive when you were, or family that's even more obscure?

I DO understand why it's done, with the new world countries being such a melting pot, an identity is an easy way to connect and create a feeling of community. However, it's not the 1900's anymore, we live in a globalised world, and being American (or similar) is now a culture and nation in it's own right. It's time to let go of these silly identities, that have been built up in the imaginations of many, and put on a pedestal.

It most surly is (for Americans at least) a want to be a part of something, and have some kind of cultural identity other than the consumer culture that has developed in the states. Humans are social animals, and its natural to want to belong to a pack. I think most Americans feel faceless. America is such a melting pot that to some being American may feel generic. Even the language we speak seems more like a generic auxiliary language than something that is our own. This is why some Americans embrace subcultures, or their ancestry. I don't think that them searching for a place to belong is necessarily a bad thing.

I do agree with you that putting a culture or nation up on a pedestal is idiotic. I can say with confidence as a folklorist (well almost, I have one semester left) that all cultures have a few good parts that can be beautiful and interesting and then some really bad parts. So even though this may seem like a strange idea I think it would be better to start from scratch and design a new culture altogether than to latch on to a natural culture that you equate as good just because it's old.


As far as my ethnicity goes if your curious, I am Lumbee Indian/Portuguese/American (not Irish at all) my dad was raised on a reservation,(I grew up off res) and my ancestor Enoch Emanuel started the first school for Indians in North Carolina. This is my ethnicity, I don't feel proud or ashamed of it; it just is. Personally, I make up my own way of life as an individual and my ethnicity has little if anything to do with it.

 

[Verlander]

Spoiler: Previous Convo

If it makes you happy, yes

Actually most of the people here meet your "requirements".

Yes, all of the "I'm a third" or "My grandfather was 100%" makes them all Irish.

Most of the people here aren't, and the folk from new world countries seem to have some sort of inherited patriotism for a place they have never been to. I laid out fair criteria, it could be said that you're only Irish if you're born and raised there. People need to be satisfied with who they are, and if we're lucky, ignore this ridiculous "pride" in a political measurement.

I'm pretty sure these people are claiming ethnicity by being of Irish decent. Their not claiming nationality and if they have an interest in the culture of their ancestors whats the problem with that? Also, If your saying that Irish Americans have lost rights to Irish culture because of their ancestors acclamation to another dominate culture you might want to ask yourself why out of the native Irish only something like 15% of them speak their own language.

I'd imagine 300 years of British rule largely put an end to native Irish speakers, and unlike the Welsh, reclaiming the language isn't a common Irish goal.

I have no problem with learning about other cultures, but they might as well learn about all northern Germanic cultures, and then African ones, because by the same concept they originally came from those places as well. Yet, I don't see the "Irish" Americans doing much of that, I see them fucking about on St Patrick's Day, claiming patriotism for a country as far removed from their own culture as any European country.

...they do learn about all the northern Germanic cultures, and the African ones. That's why at my college we have what's called "cultural studies" which include African studies, German studies, etc. Its also why my city has international days in the park where learning centers are set up to teach people about different cultures, why conventions are held for Americans of all ethnicity where they can reconnect to the people or culture they descend from, and its why you have Americans that study Celtic music or the music of whatever people they descend from. I could go on with many other examples if you'd like

Do they stand up and proudly exclaim that they are african-northern european-germanic-celtic-irish americans? Or dot hey go around exclaiming that they are Irish, when they are in fact American. It's a different culture, and they are not Irish. I got taught about Japanese history, but that don't make me one of them.

I don't know how else to explain this to you, their not claiming nationality their claiming ethnicity. Their ethnicity is non-negotiable, if they descend from alien, Chinese fruit bat, Scottish kangaroo and they happen to live in the states then they are without question, without compromise, absolutely, inherently an American/alien/Chinese fruit bat/Scottish kangaroo. This fact cannot be refuted, and in a hundred thousand years if Ireland sinks into the ocean and all that ever was or could have been related to that culture disapFUCKINGpears the descendants of those who once resided in Ireland will remain Irish, and not the devil himself could change that. Again their !nationality! is American their !ethnicity! is Irish, so they ARE Irish.

So that makes you African?

We have gathered here on this fine day, and have witnessed your greatness, the sheer might of your unyielding ineptitude, and your, dare I say courage to preserve your nonsensicality in the face of overwhelming logic. Therefore by the powers vested in me by this here internet I deem the unteachable. May you now go out into the world, and continue to dream the wild dreams you dared to dream when you were young, to unknow the knowable, to read without understanding, and to type while sleeping.

Oooh, a sarcastic answer, the final retort of those without argument. You claim someone was a right to the heritage of their ancestors? Well they all came from Africa originally. If the natural history of mankind is a subject of which you lack knowledge, I recommend learning it, it will serve you well.

Patriotism is for the small minded anyway, but patriotism for a country of which of you no living connection is beyond stupid. Non-Irish people have no claim to Irish history and culture, just like Non-Japanese have no right to Japanese history and culture. Appreciate it if you will, but it is not "yours" and you are not one of them.

I didn't resort to comedy, because I lack argument (also all of my comments so far have been laced with sarcasm, I thought you would have noticed), I did so because firstly I thought it was funny and that you might think it was funny as well, and secondly because I'm not sure if your even reading my posts. Also as far as patriotism goes, how the hell did you get patriotism out of anything I have said? Patriotism comes not from ethnicity, but from nationalism! and I'm surely not patriotic, I'm just trying my hardest to get you to understand what these people are saying and the difference between nationality and ethnicity, but you obviously turn a deaf ear to anything I say because your just waiting to spew out the same babble you have been spewing from the beginning.

Just answer this question, (if you are ethnically speaking) Irish can you be anything else or not Irish if you want to? and If you say African I swear I'll reach through this computer and pull your nose hair out! (joking)

Africaa.... ok, ok.

No. I don't see ethnicity as something you can choose to subscribe to, it's just something that you are. It's a bit like the colour of your skin. You weren't awarded it, you didn't earn it, and therefore I don't see what there is to be proud of about it.

You're right, I am missing what you're saying, and I read back, and I'm still missing it. I don't understand this claim to ancestry. Why be proud of, or embrace, something that has absolutely no impact on your life. To me it's very similar to a real life situation that I'm in: my Dad married a Phillipino lady, and they have a kid together. The kid of dark hair, asian skin and features, while I am blonde northern Germanic type. We're technically half-brothers, and have a direct, present day relationship. I don't make any claims to his heritage or culture. If he is presently 50% related to me, surely I have more in common with his culture that a 33% relation that wasn't even alive when you were, or family that's even more obscure?

I DO understand why it's done, with the new world countries being such a melting pot, an identity is an easy way to connect and create a feeling of community. However, it's not the 1900's anymore, we live in a globalised world, and being American (or similar) is now a culture and nation in it's own right. It's time to let go of these silly identities, that have been built up in the imaginations of many, and put on a pedestal.

It most surly is (for Americans at least) a want to be a part of something, and have some kind of cultural identity other than the consumer culture that has developed in the states. Humans are social animals, and its natural to want to belong to a pack. I think most Americans feel faceless. America is such a melting pot that to some being American may feel generic. Even the language we speak seems more like a generic auxiliary language than something that is our own. This is why some Americans embrace subcultures, or their ancestry. I don't think that them searching for a place to belong is necessarily a bad thing.

I do agree with you that putting a culture or nation up on a pedestal is idiotic. I can say with confidence as a folklorist (well almost, I have one semester left) that all cultures have a few good parts that can be beautiful and interesting and then some really bad parts. So even though this may seem like a strange idea I think it would be better to start from scratch and design a new culture altogether than to latch on to a natural culture that you equate as good just because it's old.


As far as my ethnicity goes if your curious, I am Lumbee Indian/Portuguese/American (not Irish at all) my dad was raised on a reservation,(I grew up off res) and my ancestor Enoch Emanuel started the first school for Indians in North Carolina. This is my ethnicity, I don't feel proud or ashamed of it; it just is. Personally, I make up my own way of life as an individual and my ethnicity has little if anything to do with it.

Perhaps that is why you are more respectful to people who wish to embrace their culture? That your own is innately special, while the American one isn't perceived to be?

America has it's own unique and fantastic history, with many achievements. It's difficult to see that for some guys I guess, when the rest of the world is sceptical at best about your foreign policies, and other political matters (the general feeling is a bit like a lot of old arrogant men in a room with a child, and the child has a gun. We want to get the gun off the child, but are too busy fighting or patronising each other, and the child doesn't seem to mind swinging the gun around at any tiny thing). Anyway, that's besides the point.

I agree one new culture would be interesting, but the problem is that people are naturally contrary, and people desire, and take great lengths to achieve difference. One culture simply wouldn't suit a vast majority of people. The concept is very interesting though, the idea that if you could start a new country, what directions would it go in, and how would those directions affect the evolution of culture on this country (of course you'd be long dead before any customs came to be, but it's hypothetical anyway).

 

[StealthyNinja]

Born and raised in Dublin, parents are from Cork and Tipp. Fairly decent at speaking the Gaeilge, sort of follow the GAA, eat the potato daily. Yep, I'm pretty sure I'm Irish.

 

[SuperiorityComplex]

I'm a resident of Northern Ireland. Born and bred. Even walked around with a Belfast accent for three years (though it's thankfully gone now!).

I always get funny referring to myself as 'Irish' though. Not a major deal, it's not that I personally mind, I just always believe those in the South think, "What? How dare they call themselves Irish?"

And yeah. I grew up on the other side of the fence in Northern Ireland, I don't really know much about the Republic. Certainly not as much as I'd love to, I love the Republic. I used to have a great laugh at the eejits complaining they couldn't use Stirling cash in the Republic, when my Dad turned round to the girls and was like, "You're in a foreign country. Deal with it."

edit: I've a friend on the Escapist watching this thread who said I neglected to point out I'm a redhead. Everybody outside of here that I talk to that hears I'm a redhead is like, "Oh! A redheaded Irish woman!" and I always have to reply, yeah, but my mum's English and she's the one I get the red hair from. Dad's from Belfast, sure, but he had very, very black hair.

And I'd like to share a story for you all. My sister was visiting a friend of hers in Illinois once, and she went to visit a school (I don't know the American grade...8th graders, I think), and they seemed shocked that she could speak 'very good English'. My sister had to point out yeah, it was her first language.

 

[Dags90]

Yea, born and raised in Belfast and probably will never stray too far from it. I'm very proud of being from my Wee country, dispite it only ever being in the news for violence.

Do people really find "Irish car bombs" to be an offensive name for a drink? I mean, Afghanistan Whore is pretty offensive, too.

 

[Creator002]

I've got a bit of Irish up the line somewhere. Like, great great grandparents.

 

[zombie goat fetish]

100% born and bred born in Kerry live in Cork and I want to leave, this country is shite.

 

[trollnystan]

I'm only half-Irish does that count? I tend to introduce myself as Swedish with an Irish mother actually; Sweden is where I was born, raised, still live and probably die after all.

I tan "Irish" though. I don't get brown, I get pink(er). That's from my Irish side.

I also get a bit peeved at people who claim they're Irish/German/Spanish/[insert nationality here] when in actuality it's their great-grandmother or something who was from there. Americans are the biggest offenders in this as far as I can see - understandably so - and a part of me finds it baffling. Most Americans are incredibly patriotic, but at the same time they seem to want to claim any Old World connection they can. Can't you just be American?

We have it here in Sweden too; second-generation immigrants (oh how I hate that term) saying they're Turkish, Iraqi or Somalian when they were born here. True, Sweden is tough to integrate into, but still.

And no, I didn't read past page 1 in this thread. It's late, I'm tired and I'm lazy. *grumpy now*

 

[Soxafloppin]

Yea, born and raised in Belfast and probably will never stray too far from it. I'm very proud of being from my Wee country, dispite it only ever being in the news for violence.

Do people really find "Irish car bombs" to be an offensive name for a drink? I mean, Afghanistan Whore is pretty offensive, too.

I've honestly never heard that expression, and I'm not the kinda guy to get offended over silly things so your asking the wrong guy. But I've honestly never heard that phrase used.

 

[WhyBotherToTry]

100% Irish, lived in Dublin all my life.

 

[Rekrul]

Apparently my great-great-grandad was Irish, so no.

 

[KoalaKid]

Spoiler: Previous Convo

If it makes you happy, yes

Actually most of the people here meet your "requirements".

Yes, all of the "I'm a third" or "My grandfather was 100%" makes them all Irish.

Most of the people here aren't, and the folk from new world countries seem to have some sort of inherited patriotism for a place they have never been to. I laid out fair criteria, it could be said that you're only Irish if you're born and raised there. People need to be satisfied with who they are, and if we're lucky, ignore this ridiculous "pride" in a political measurement.

I'm pretty sure these people are claiming ethnicity by being of Irish decent. Their not claiming nationality and if they have an interest in the culture of their ancestors whats the problem with that? Also, If your saying that Irish Americans have lost rights to Irish culture because of their ancestors acclamation to another dominate culture you might want to ask yourself why out of the native Irish only something like 15% of them speak their own language.

I'd imagine 300 years of British rule largely put an end to native Irish speakers, and unlike the Welsh, reclaiming the language isn't a common Irish goal.

I have no problem with learning about other cultures, but they might as well learn about all northern Germanic cultures, and then African ones, because by the same concept they originally came from those places as well. Yet, I don't see the "Irish" Americans doing much of that, I see them fucking about on St Patrick's Day, claiming patriotism for a country as far removed from their own culture as any European country.

...they do learn about all the northern Germanic cultures, and the African ones. That's why at my college we have what's called "cultural studies" which include African studies, German studies, etc. Its also why my city has international days in the park where learning centers are set up to teach people about different cultures, why conventions are held for Americans of all ethnicity where they can reconnect to the people or culture they descend from, and its why you have Americans that study Celtic music or the music of whatever people they descend from. I could go on with many other examples if you'd like

Do they stand up and proudly exclaim that they are african-northern european-germanic-celtic-irish americans? Or dot hey go around exclaiming that they are Irish, when they are in fact American. It's a different culture, and they are not Irish. I got taught about Japanese history, but that don't make me one of them.

I don't know how else to explain this to you, their not claiming nationality their claiming ethnicity. Their ethnicity is non-negotiable, if they descend from alien, Chinese fruit bat, Scottish kangaroo and they happen to live in the states then they are without question, without compromise, absolutely, inherently an American/alien/Chinese fruit bat/Scottish kangaroo. This fact cannot be refuted, and in a hundred thousand years if Ireland sinks into the ocean and all that ever was or could have been related to that culture disapFUCKINGpears the descendants of those who once resided in Ireland will remain Irish, and not the devil himself could change that. Again their !nationality! is American their !ethnicity! is Irish, so they ARE Irish.

So that makes you African?

We have gathered here on this fine day, and have witnessed your greatness, the sheer might of your unyielding ineptitude, and your, dare I say courage to preserve your nonsensicality in the face of overwhelming logic. Therefore by the powers vested in me by this here internet I deem the unteachable. May you now go out into the world, and continue to dream the wild dreams you dared to dream when you were young, to unknow the knowable, to read without understanding, and to type while sleeping.

Oooh, a sarcastic answer, the final retort of those without argument. You claim someone was a right to the heritage of their ancestors? Well they all came from Africa originally. If the natural history of mankind is a subject of which you lack knowledge, I recommend learning it, it will serve you well.

Patriotism is for the small minded anyway, but patriotism for a country of which of you no living connection is beyond stupid. Non-Irish people have no claim to Irish history and culture, just like Non-Japanese have no right to Japanese history and culture. Appreciate it if you will, but it is not "yours" and you are not one of them.

I didn't resort to comedy, because I lack argument (also all of my comments so far have been laced with sarcasm, I thought you would have noticed), I did so because firstly I thought it was funny and that you might think it was funny as well, and secondly because I'm not sure if your even reading my posts. Also as far as patriotism goes, how the hell did you get patriotism out of anything I have said? Patriotism comes not from ethnicity, but from nationalism! and I'm surely not patriotic, I'm just trying my hardest to get you to understand what these people are saying and the difference between nationality and ethnicity, but you obviously turn a deaf ear to anything I say because your just waiting to spew out the same babble you have been spewing from the beginning.

Just answer this question, (if you are ethnically speaking) Irish can you be anything else or not Irish if you want to? and If you say African I swear I'll reach through this computer and pull your nose hair out! (joking)

Africaa.... ok, ok.

No. I don't see ethnicity as something you can choose to subscribe to, it's just something that you are. It's a bit like the colour of your skin. You weren't awarded it, you didn't earn it, and therefore I don't see what there is to be proud of about it.

You're right, I am missing what you're saying, and I read back, and I'm still missing it. I don't understand this claim to ancestry. Why be proud of, or embrace, something that has absolutely no impact on your life. To me it's very similar to a real life situation that I'm in: my Dad married a Phillipino lady, and they have a kid together. The kid of dark hair, asian skin and features, while I am blonde northern Germanic type. We're technically half-brothers, and have a direct, present day relationship. I don't make any claims to his heritage or culture. If he is presently 50% related to me, surely I have more in common with his culture that a 33% relation that wasn't even alive when you were, or family that's even more obscure?

I DO understand why it's done, with the new world countries being such a melting pot, an identity is an easy way to connect and create a feeling of community. However, it's not the 1900's anymore, we live in a globalised world, and being American (or similar) is now a culture and nation in it's own right. It's time to let go of these silly identities, that have been built up in the imaginations of many, and put on a pedestal.

It most surly is (for Americans at least) a want to be a part of something, and have some kind of cultural identity other than the consumer culture that has developed in the states. Humans are social animals, and its natural to want to belong to a pack. I think most Americans feel faceless. America is such a melting pot that to some being American may feel generic. Even the language we speak seems more like a generic auxiliary language than something that is our own. This is why some Americans embrace subcultures, or their ancestry. I don't think that them searching for a place to belong is necessarily a bad thing.

I do agree with you that putting a culture or nation up on a pedestal is idiotic. I can say with confidence as a folklorist (well almost, I have one semester left) that all cultures have a few good parts that can be beautiful and interesting and then some really bad parts. So even though this may seem like a strange idea I think it would be better to start from scratch and design a new culture altogether than to latch on to a natural culture that you equate as good just because it's old.


As far as my ethnicity goes if your curious, I am Lumbee Indian/Portuguese/American (not Irish at all) my dad was raised on a reservation,(I grew up off res) and my ancestor Enoch Emanuel started the first school for Indians in North Carolina. This is my ethnicity, I don't feel proud or ashamed of it; it just is. Personally, I make up my own way of life as an individual and my ethnicity has little if anything to do with it.

Perhaps that is why you are more respectful to people who wish to embrace their culture? That your own is innately special, while the American one isn't perceived to be?

America has it's own unique and fantastic history, with many achievements. It's difficult to see that for some guys I guess, when the rest of the world is sceptical at best about your foreign policies, and other political matters (the general feeling is a bit like a lot of old arrogant men in a room with a child, and the child has a gun. We want to get the gun off the child, but are too busy fighting or patronising each other, and the child doesn't seem to mind swinging the gun around at any tiny thing). Anyway, that's besides the point.

I agree one new culture would be interesting, but the problem is that people are naturally contrary, and people desire, and take great lengths to achieve difference. One culture simply wouldn't suit a vast majority of people. The concept is very interesting though, the idea that if you could start a new country, what directions would it go in, and how would those directions affect the evolution of culture on this country (of course you'd be long dead before any customs came to be, but it's hypothetical anyway).

Sorry it took me a while to respond. I agree that America has a unique and interesting history, and has plenty of accomplishments to be proud of. I think it would be foolish to ignore all of the good things about America just to jump on the "I hate America" bandwagon. Of course we can't ignore the blemishes in American history either, the government has done some fucked up things. I guess every county has parts of its history it would rather not be reminded of though. In the end maybe it's best to come to the realization that where you were born is complete happenstance, and that your not to be blamed or exalted for your nations triumphs or tragedies.

On the topic of constructing a culture, I think your right that humanity wouldn't want to belong to a universal culture. The idea of a constructed culture that one could choose to join or not though isn't a bad idea. Maybe one of the problems with culture is that for the most part your simply born into one, and have no choice in the matter. I know that there are micro-nations out there, but those are more about government than cultural identity. I think if you were going to construct a culture it would be best to start with a new language. So much of ones cultural identity, and even the way they view the world is built around the language they speak. The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is a good example of how language effects thought.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

Alas have I spent all of my twenty one years in this wretched country... Yes I am Irish.

 

[Turigamot]

I'd say 60%+ of all Americans are mostly Irish.

Actually I believe the statistics are; 80% have an Irish ancestor and think they're Irish, the other 20% don't have any Irish relations and still think they're Irish.

And I'd say, judging from the responses of many Irish-from-Ireland folk in this thread, that 80% of Irish people are dicks. You can claim descent (and thus ethnicity). That doesn't mean you are claiming to be perfectly akin, or claiming nationality. I don't see Germans getting their panties in a wad when an American claims they have ancestors from Germany (and more Americans *do* claim German ancestry than Irish)

 

[WolfThomas]

3/8s (a combination of Mum and Dad's Irish-ness) but that's Australian-Irish though.

I don't see Germans getting their panties in a wad when an American claims they have ancestors from Germany (and more Americans *do* claim German ancestry than Irish)

Well yeah the classic "All-american" jawline is inherited from German settlers.

 

[Amphoteric]

I'm a bit Northern Irish. My mother was born there and I've lived there for the majority of my life.

I'm still English first though.

 

[Biosophilogical]

A lot of people in the U.S. have Irish heritage, including me. It's 150 years old, though, so I don't feel much of a connection.

I'm similar, except I'm Australian. I think I'm about 5th generation Australian but all (or most) of my ancestors come from Scotland, England and Ireland, so statistically I'm probably about 1/4+ Irish, but realistically I'm just an Aussie (and not a good one at that: I don't drink or smoke, my accent is so weak that I borrow the accent of whoever I'm talking with[footnote]Though this could be taken the other way, saying that I'm very Australian, because we are such a mixed bag of cultures that it isn't so much 'adopting' an accent as it is 'emphasising that aspect of our own'[/footnote], and out of all the things I can cook well, red meat is not one of them).