Is Anakin Skywalker a Positive Role Model?

[Joccaren]

Honestly the only Starwars that the kids are likely to have seen is the clone wars animated series, during which time Anakin was a hero. Also, despite what people seem to believe, children are able to tell the difference between alter egos. They likely know the difference between 'good' Anakin and 'bad' Anakin, and know which one is accepted by the general society.

Also, not every toy has to be sold as a good guy. Bad guy toys are almost a necessity. Most kids will want to play war games. Those war games will include a 'good' side, and a 'bad' side. They need someone to fill that 'bad' side role. If the 'bad' character is a good rolemodel, it probably ruins their perception of what is good as much as having a bad role model play doll does, if not more, as they now antagonise good characteristics.

Seriously, I don't see a lot of problems here. I grew up watching every Starwars movie at a young age, and playing games where at times I was the bad guy. I am one of the more 'morally sound' people that I know, and am unlikely to do anything illegal simply because I have seen the harm it can cause. Hell, the only thing such things imparted on me is martyrdom, and the want to be a hero if the need arises - though fear would likely get in the way and I would run like a little girl rather than actually do any of that stuff.

I'll admit, I am by no means a normal case. Compared to most I know, my entire upbringing was quite different. Still, how many children grow up to go on school massacres and wife killing frenzies simply because they played with an Anakin doll in their youth. Often, when things like that happen, there will be completely different reasons behind it. I think an Anakin doll is the least of anyone's worries in that department.

 

[Oly J]

I'd also like to add that Anakin whined and cried throughout the entirety of Revenge of the Sith, setting a terrible example for children everywhere.

What do we think, folks?

I think the Escapist needs to ditch its irritatin, crowd-pleasing attitude, and actually be able to mention Star Wars without in some way attacking the prequels.

We both know Anakin didn't whine and cry throughout the entirety of Revenge Of The Sith, so stop going with the whole 'pandering to the original-trilogy masses' thing.

I don't mind if people don't like it, I just wish all you writers could write one Star Wars article without expressing your thoughts on the prequels, no matter how irrelevant they are.

I agree, Anakin's oft-exaggerated whining is nothing the character wouldn't allow anyway, true, I prefer the original trilogy but not because of Anakin, think about it, at about 9 years old, which is old enough to have developed emotion but not much maturity, he's taken from his home and with it, pretty much all social settings outside of the Jedi, he would be as I understand he got a master in Obi-Wan right off the bat, (which means he wouldn't have had to go through the youngling classes) and to top it all off everyone kept telling him he was the chosen one, how can anyone be realistically expected to not be an entitled little sh*t if that's how you grew up, he is going to be spoiled and hence very whiny, so complaining about that is a bit like jumping into water and complaining that it's wet

sorry went off on a bit of a tangent there

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I'd also like to add that Anakin whined and cried throughout the entirety of Revenge of the Sith, setting a terrible example for children everywhere.

What do we think, folks?

I think the Escapist needs to ditch its irritatin, crowd-pleasing attitude, and actually be able to mention Star Wars without in some way attacking the prequels.

We both know Anakin didn't whine and cry throughout the entirety of Revenge Of The Sith, so stop going with the whole 'pandering to the original-trilogy masses' thing.

I don't mind if people don't like it, I just wish all you writers could write one Star Wars article without expressing your thoughts on the prequels, no matter how irrelevant they are.

If you listen to the podcasts they ARE the original-trilogy masses.

Nah, I don't actually feature in the podcasts.

I just have taste.

You, sir, are a hoot.

 

[SilverHammerMan]

Man, you are not making it easy to format a response to your post.

It's unlikely that children of that age have seen any of the Star Wars films, however if they have I beg to offer the following counterpoints to 'the sins of Anakin'

If they're unlikely to have seen it, why are you stocking it?

Because Star Wars is a cultural icon, I mean, it's not likely that a lot of kids are actually reading Superman comics, but he's still got merchandise out there.

Anakin loved his mother a great deal and always treated her with respect

Until he left her behind with a slavemaster to be killed.

You've got a point there, I never really thought about it, that is really kind of a point against him. I guess it could be rationalized that he wouldn't have been allowed to go back for her given the Jedi's bizarre policy of unattachment.

Rescued his master several times from assassins, pit monsters, droid troopers etc.

I think you meant to say "abuser" there.

Now that's just bullshit, the whole master and apprentice thing was never shown as abusive and to question it is the very definition of actively looking for and then twisting things in order to complain about them. It's like when people call Batman a pervert because of Robin, it's not actually there in the text, that's just your interpretation of it and not the actual intent of the piece.

Rescued Amidalla from assassin snakes, pit monsters, the Trade Federation and even found time to romance her in the fields of Naboo

And their ages when he did that...?

Given that he was 9 or so in the Phantom Menace and Padme was 14 or so, that would make them 19 and 24. I don't see the problem, neither of them were underage. Are you objecting to the romance of the rescues? Either way they were both adults in most of the world.

Built C3PO

The useless camp comic relief droid - The Protocol droid when his mother needed something to help her round the house?

What's wrong with that exactly? The kid still built a goddamn robot, you and I couldn't do that. Are you blaming him because it wasn't the perfect type of robot for his mother? It must have proven a bit useful at least since she kept it around and even finished it once Anakin left.

Won the Podrace

Because kids playing in fast cars is good.

You do actually kind of have a point there, but I think by this logic you could say that virtually any adventure story starring a child is bad on the basis that children shouldn't be doing dangerous things.

Killed the evil emperor to save his son

Hey, as a Juvenile murderer, he won't get sentenced as much.

What? Anakin was grown ass man in his forties (at least) when he killed the Emperor. And then he himself died. Are you objecting to any violence at all? If so, what on Earth are you doing on a videogame website?

I would also argue that if a child has seen all the films they'll see Anakin as a hero who went wrong but ultimately paid the supreme sacrifice to atone for his sins.

I'd counter that they'd also see a child that abandons his children, amputates his sons arm, bullies, kills, tortures and turns on all the positive things you mentioned earlier - and then kills his boss because his son wants something.

A child that abandons his children? How does that work exactly? And yes, he bullies, kills and stuff, because he's villain! Of course if you look at the stuff he does as Darth Vader he looks evil, and that's because he was. The thing that makes him a hero again is that when the Emperor is trying to murder Anakin's son right in front of him Anakin hears his sons pleas for help and finally realizes that he's been an evil prick. It's by saving his son that he becomes a hero again. To use the logic applied in the movies themselves; Anakin is a hero, Darth Vader is not.

Or that, as a shop that's always prided itself on role-models that aren't there purely to sell merchandise, but to educate and fulfil a child's learning potential, you've totally succumb to being the one thing you hated.
In that case, Anakin is a good role model for the ELC.

Your interpretation and that's completely up to you, but I think that a child would probably see something more along the lines of young kid (just like them!) who has kick ass adventures in space with his robot buddies, becomes an incredibly cool bad guy, and them becomes good again when he realizes that he was actually evil.

Anyway, yeah, I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but remember that Star Wars is an adventure series, of course there's going to be violence and killing. Still, in the end Anakin repents and dies because of what he's done, which isn't a terrible ending. Plus, I don't think he was ever actually portrayed as a role model, just a person who went bad and realized the error of his ways.

 

[AsurasFinest]

Nah, I don't actually feature in the podcasts.

I just have taste.

I'm now going to just assume it's stepped into the banter/trolling phase.


Also, THIS:

Was I the only one thinking, "Well, I would rather think of Anakin as a role model instead of this generation thinking that Jersey Shore is!" Because, honestly, fuck 'em.

I wasn't, but this is a very good point.
Would all you prequel haters rather have your kids watch Star Wars II: Attack Of The Clones, or Jersey Shore? Or as I like to call it, 'The Annoying Orange grows a body and gets drunk with all his friends'.

How about neither?
Both are shit, I'd give them Original Trilogy instead or another movie that at least doesn't fail on every single basic level of film making like the prequels do.

Watch the reviews on redlettermedia.com. If you come back after watching those reviews fully and still think those movies work on any sort of level, there's simply no arguing with you.

 

[AstylahAthrys]

Well, hopefully if these kids are really young, they haven't seen Revenge of the Sith yet. Maybe they've only seen Clone Wars, where, from what I've seen, he's not too bad of a role model.

Damn, I actually want to re-watch the prequels now, but I don't own them. Yet I own both the theatrical and remastered versions of the OT. Did the Blu-Ray version of the PT fix the now out-of-date effects that look pretty crappy by today's standards (namely in Episode I)?

 

[Trippy Turtle]

Maybe not a positive role model but he did try very hard and it shows that people can snap when pushed too far.

 

[JoJo]

I know this is slightly different since we're talking about children's media in this case, but when will people learn that protagonist =/= role model! This isn't aimed at anyone in particular here but I'm fed up of hearing complaints about a book/film/game because the protagonist did [insert bad action here] and therefore the author must be justifying [insert bad action here].

 

[Scrustle]

Haha! The reply from the ELC was pretty poor to be honest. Those were fleeting examples to an otherwise completely evil character. And although he's right that children probably have no idea about the evil acts of Anakin, if they decide they like the character and want to find out more about him they will quickly discover what a dick he really is. And even when Anakin was "good" he was a fucking annoying whiny ***** anyway.

 

[Captain Pirate]

How about neither?
Both are shit, I'd give them Original Trilogy instead or another movie that at least doesn't fail on every single basic level of film making like the prequels do.

Watch the reviews on redlettermedia.com. If you come back after watching those reviews fully and still think those movies work on any sort of level, there's simply no arguing with you.

'Neither' wasn't one of the options, hence the question. The entire point was which is the lesser of two evils.

And no, I really cannot be fucked to, nor have anywhere the amount of free time to, watch the redlettermedia reviews; hours and hours of video narrated by someone so monotonous isn't what I consider productive. I've seen a tiny bit of them, and he had some good points from what I saw, but it didn't exactly hinder my enjoyment of the films.
And yes, I'm sure the prequels are sooo bad, they don't work on any sort of level, at all.

It seems that you're missing my original point though: That The Escapist's Star Wars-related articles commonly insult the prequels, even if said insult isn't related to the article. As much as it annoys me that people consider the prequels not just bad, that I'm cool with, but as something spawned from Satan himself, I'm still fine with that, each to his own etc., but when we can't even mention Star Wars in any way shape or form without throwing in 'hurr durr Anakin sucks', it annoys me.

What annoyed me further in this article was the exaggeration; yes, Anakin cried a bit, and even that was justified, but we all know he didn't whine and cry the entire film by any means, that's just excessive and necessary.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Man, you are not making it easy to format a response to your post.

The clue is in the title

Because Star Wars is a cultural icon, I mean, it's not likely that a lot of kids are actually reading Superman comics, but he's still got merchandise out there.

I think this is going to come up a lot, but that's not the ELC's forte. That's TOYS R US. ELC deliberately go for non-merchandise toys so as not to provoke the Cinderella syndrome, or any of the other problems that come from mass marketing.
Superman probably hasn't been in the ELC either.

I think you meant to say "abuser" there.

Now that's just bullshit, the whole master and apprentice thing was never shown as abusive and to question it is the very definition of actively looking for and then twisting things in order to complain about them.

Honestly? I don't think it's unfair to call Palpatine an abuser. He took Anakin's fears and turned him into a sociopath. That's a fair call from my side.

Batman and Robin is just part of the whole "OMG TWO MEN WHO LIEK EACH OTHER R TEH GHEY!" trope that rolls around the media these days.

Given that he was 9 or so in the Phantom Menace and Padme was 14 or so, that would make them 19 and 24. I don't see the problem, neither of them were underage. Are you objecting to the romance of the rescues? Either way they were both adults in most of the world.

More of the fact that Lucas/Spielberg has a very strange idea of romance - and especially what age it's decent.

Built C3PO

What's wrong with that exactly?

Because if my Mother wanted help with the cooking, and I brought her a dictaphone, she'd roll her eyes.

What? Anakin was grown ass man in his forties (at least) when he killed the Emperor.

Anakin is a hero, Darth Vader is not.

Your interpretation and that's completely up to you, but I think that a child would probably see something more along the lines of young kid (just like them!) who has kick ass adventures in space with his robot buddies, becomes an incredibly cool bad guy, and them becomes good again when he realizes that he was actually evil.

I don't think they'd get past the butchering of the young children. That sort of thing tends to stick in the mind.

I don't think he was ever actually portrayed as a role model,

so...

 

[Something Amyss]

I would be remiss if I didn't post this Tom Lehrer Ditty.


Is he still your hero now? Huh? Huh?

 

[Sutter Cane]

I'd also like to add that Anakin whined and cried throughout the entirety of Revenge of the Sith, setting a terrible example for children everywhere.

What do we think, folks?

I think the Escapist needs to ditch its irritatin, crowd-pleasing attitude, and actually be able to mention Star Wars without in some way attacking the prequels.

We both know Anakin didn't whine and cry throughout the entirety of Revenge Of The Sith, so stop going with the whole 'pandering to the original-trilogy masses' thing.

I don't mind if people don't like it, I just wish all you writers could write one Star Wars article without expressing your thoughts on the prequels, no matter how irrelevant they are.

If you listen to the podcasts they ARE the original-trilogy masses.

Nah, I don't actually feature in the podcasts.

I just have taste.

wow, way to insult your reader base.

It really makes me want to continue reading your articles

 

[SilverHammerMan]

Man, you are not making it easy to format a response to your post.

The clue is in the title

Damn my inability to heed obvious clues!

*snip*

I think this is going to come up a lot, but that's not the ELC's forte. That's TOYS R US. ELC deliberately go for non-merchandise toys so as not to provoke the Cinderella syndrome, or any of the other problems that come from mass marketing.
Superman probably hasn't been in the ELC either.

Ah, did not know that. That does change things.

*snip*

Honestly? I don't think it's unfair to call Palpatine an abuser. He took Anakin's fears and turned him into a sociopath. That's a fair call from my side.

Palpatine is definitely an abuser, I think that the reasons that you were quoting were referring to Obi-Wan though. Palpatine was definitely a bad dude and could certainly qualify as an abuser, Obi-Wan on the other hand is just awesome.

Given that he was 9 or so in the Phantom Menace and Padme was 14 or so, that would make them 19 and 24. I don't see the problem, neither of them were underage. Are you objecting to the romance of the rescues? Either way they were both adults in most of the world.

More of the fact that Lucas/Spielberg has a very strange idea of romance - and especially what age it's decent.

Oh yeah, I think we both read that Cracked article about Indiana Jones: Statutory Rapist!
It is kind of messed up, but it's not too bad since the romance only actually started up when they were 19 and 24, after years of Anakin mooning over Padme. If they'd been shown having a romance during the interim it would have been creepy, I mean, an 18 year and a 14 year old? Bleh.

Built C3PO

What's wrong with that exactly?

Because if my Mother wanted help with the cooking, and I brought her a dictaphone, she'd roll her eyes.

Mine would too. I think though that as a protocol droid C3PO is supposed to be a sort of butler-droid. I don't think it's a stretch to say he could have helped out somehow.

What? Anakin was grown ass man in his forties (at least) when he killed the Emperor.

Your interpretation and that's completely up to you, but I think that a child would probably see something more along the lines of young kid (just like them!) who has kick ass adventures in space with his robot buddies, becomes an incredibly cool bad guy, and then becomes good again when he realizes that he was actually evil.

I don't think they'd get past the butchering of the young children. That sort of thing tends to stick in the mind.

True, but honestly, when I saw that in the movie I barely noticed it. I guess I'm weird but in my mind I was just like:
"Huh, he killed a bunch of toe-headed youths. Kinda funny. Moving along, YODA!"

I don't think he was ever actually portrayed as a role model,

so...

So.... Agree to kinda/sorta agree?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

So.... Agree to kinda/sorta agree?

My point is that as Jake Anakin, he didn't really do anything good. Certainly not Heroic.
As Hayden Anakin, he just chopped people up. Very not Heroic.
As Vader...he was no longer Anakin.

As a child hero, someone like Elliot (ET) would have been far more appropriate. And for ELC, pandering to Star Wars is turning their back on what they fought for.

Whatever the Expanded Universe may have added to Anakin's life; in the films he wasn't a hero.

Russel from UP! would have been a great choice. Anakin sadly isn't.

 

[Iggy Sent Me]

Was he ever supposed to be a role model? They never tried to hide that he would become Darth Vader, and even if he had positive aspects of his character as listed above that doesn't mean any of us do or should want to be his miserable ass.

"And then in one blazing moment you realise that there was no dragon. There was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker. That it was all you. Is you. You did it. You killed her. ... It is in this blazing moment that you finally understand the trap of the dark side, the final cruelty of the Sith...
Because now yourself is all you will ever have."

From the book. Better than the movie I'd say.

 

[Iggy Sent Me]

What was with the double post? >_<

 

[Gizmo1990]

How are people even trying to defend him as a role modle. HE MURDERED A BUNCH OF KIDS!!!! If someone did that in real life the person in question could go on to cure Cancer and AIDs, create a cheap, clean replacement for fossil fules and bring world peace and it would not matter because they world have killed a bunch of kids!!!!!!!

 

[Pharsalus]

Anakin loved his mother a great deal and always treated her with respect

As did Gengis Khan and he was a murdering psychopath.



Rescued his master several times from assassins, pit monsters, droid troopers etc.

And later attempted to murder him.

Rescued Amidalla from assassin snakes, pit monsters, the Trade Federation and even found time to romance her in the fields of Naboo.

And later attempted to murder her.

Built C3PO

Worthless.
Won the Podrace.

Worthless.

Killed the evil emperor to save his son

Too little too late.

Hey, hey, hey, why you gotta bash Ghegis Khan like that? Tamerlane is actually the one responsible for all the mountains of skulls and such. Not to say Gengis wasn't ruthless, but he's no Anakin Psycowalker.