Is Fighting Dead

[FoolKiller]

Fight with honor? What are you talking about? This is Mortal Kombat.
People have always used cheap moves to win.

...including the computer opponents. The whole point of Mortal Kombat is a simple, brutally bloody, entry-level fighter. The skill required to master the game isn't all that high.

If you want a real challenge, Virtua Fighter 4 was the game to play (a long time ago). No fireballs, no super jumps, just good old-fashioned kung-fu.

 

[bjj hero]

I think he's one of those Gentlemen/House rules players. As I said in my previous post, he'd be laughed out of an arcade.

As said, I may be slightly bias to my years of mixed martial arts that I took.

I've not played the new mortal kombat but I do like fighting games. People will always want to win, a well balanced game will allow you multiple ways to win with multiple charecters. If they are spamming the same move you counter it. Your friends list is there to find people you like playing who match up well with you, if you are playing randoms then you can expect it.

I happen to do martial arts too but I don't see how it gives you a different perspective. If you are in a fight or competition and your opponent keeps walking onto your jab, will you stop throwing it because its repetative? If he keeps giving away an easy single leg, will you stop going for it? I doubt it.

It's not just MK, did you play the first UFC game? So many people would take a wrestler, take the fight to open guard as soon as possible and sit there throwing the odd punch now and again for 3 rounds or until KO. There are lots of spammers in Street fighter, Sagat is built on spamming. You have to accept it happens, deal with it or move on.

 

[kelevra]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CombatPragmatist?from=Main.TheCombatPragmatist

Seriously man, online gameplay is a total crapshoot of people whom fight *to win.* Honour has nothing to do with it bro. Find some friends who are keen on a proper contest of skill, then you'll find what you're looking for.

 

[bjj hero]

As for fighting "games", M.U.G.E.N. is forever alive and willing to be caught by anyone wanting to play an amalgam fighting game.

Excellent point. MUGEN is the best fighting game engine I've seen.

Spoiler: Has anyone played King of Fighters?

Ah. Good time...

I miss KOF. So much more depth than street fighter and in solo play it had some of the painfully unfair boss fights. I've been upset more than once by Omega Rugal. I can imagine the development meeting at SNK.

"Do you know who I think hasn't got enough moves?"

"Who?"

"Rugal, lets make his special double up for this game, that should fix game balance."

Old man Sakazaki (is that spelt right?) has always been my favourite, no fireballs or fancy moves, just big hits. Less so as Mr Karate though.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CombatPragmatist?from=Main.TheCombatPragmatist

Seriously man, online gameplay is a total crapshoot of people whom fight *to win.* Honour has nothing to do with it bro. Find some friends who are keen on a proper contest of skill, then you'll find what you're looking for.

Here's the thing, he's only complaining about things that either are wrong with the game and not the people playing or about things his actual skill isn't allowing him to surpass but that are EASILY beaten, making him just as unskilled as his "dishonest" foes, only less flexible.

 

[mParadox]

I miss KOF. So much more depth than street fighter and in solo play it had some of the painfully unfair boss fights. I've been upset more than once by Omega Rugal. I can imagine the development meeting at SNK.

"Do you know who I think hasn't got enough moves?"

"Who?"

"Rugal, lets make his special double up for this game, that should fix game balance."

Old man Sakazaki (is that spelt right?) has always been my favourite, no fireballs or fancy moves, just big hits. Less so as Mr Karate though.

I believe it's called the SNK Boss Syndrome. Every boss is over powered. Zero... *shudders* DAmn he was hard to beat... And Igniz! DX

I prefer K'. Man that guy's the definition of anti-hero. =p

 

[katsabas]

The individual that made this thread has to understand that online fighting and Irish Duel-type honor are two things that go hand to hand once in a blue moon. People play to win. Simple as that. You will not find honor while playing online alone. Least of all in a fighting game.

That is not to say that there aren't people out there who aren't genuinely good without spamming moves over and over. I got my ass handed to me by a SFIV Ken that didn't, not even once, use the flaming shoryuken. And then, a guy as Akuma transformed into an Air-Hadoken Gunship and cheaped my ass to win.

For every legitimate player, there are 100 petty ones.

That is not to say that you made a bad choice with buying MK. People seem to be under the impression that if a fighter isn't made in Japan, is not deep, not serious and is not tournament material. Which is complete and utter BS. Why?

-I want to beat someone mercilessly to death. Inner peace through outer violence. Am I gonna try Street Fighter to remedy that? Fuck, no.

-Some of the combos I saw in MK are extremely demanding when it comes to timing. And all that while I am an intermediate Akuma player and CAN link attacks.

What you did do wrong is that you didn't know what you were getting yourself into. Special attacks and teleports have been around since the very first MK.

Mortal Kombat is NOT a serious fighting game, it's a casual gimmicky fighter for non-fans who are drunk and in need of a party game.

Either that or it is for people who actually like to get their money's worth, (i.e. not 60 bucks for a game that is nothing but bare bones with a good fighting system-a good fighting system is what should be asked for at MINIMUM since the game costs this much), not have to continuously give money for extra versions and have DLC only represented by skins for the fighters. Nice.

You should not be expecting high level competition to be found in it. All it does is childish gore and over the top violence, it's not some golden martial arts tournament.

High level competition can exist in every well known game. Burnout Paradise had online tournaments. Was it a fighter? No. Was it Japanese? Nope. And while we are on it, NO fighting game tournament is or will ever be a 'golden martial arts tournament', for the simple reason that the martial arts depicted aren't even close to the real thing. I attend Shotokan classes and they look nothing like SF.

Also, childish? There is a difference between childish and funny. Try exposing an 8 year old to Kano's or Noob's fatality. How's that for scarring?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Either that or it is for people who actually like to get their money's worth, (i.e. not 60 bucks for a game that is nothing but bare bones with a good fighting system-a good fighting system is what should be asked for at MINIMUM since the game costs this much), not have to continuously give money for extra versions and have DLC only represented by skins for the fighters. Nice.

How much time do you think you'll be spending on it though?

Most serious fighter players spend hundreds if not thousands of hours at their respective games so if we judge a $60 game with 20 or less hours of gameplay as one's "money's worth" they are getting many many many times more worth out of their money than you or any other genre-player.

High level competition can exist in every well known game. Burnout Paradise had online tournaments. Was it a fighter? No. Was it Japanese? Nope. And while we are on it, NO fighting game tournament is or will ever be a 'golden martial arts tournament', for the simple reason that the martial arts depicted aren't even close to the real thing. I attend Shotokan classes and they look nothing like SF.

Also, childish? There is a difference between childish and funny. Try exposing an 8 year old to Kano's or Noob's fatality. How's that for scarring?

Online has lag and thus is imperfect, the mere fact that you think online tournaments are comparable to offline live matches just shows the difference between other genres and fighters. In fighters where single frames matter (a frame is a sixtieth of a second) you can't have any respectable tournament online.



As for scarring, dunno about that, I played Silent Hill when I was 10 and I was fine with it...maybe if your kid is a specific candy ass bran of child . It's a childish depiction of violence and gore, together with all the squishy sounds and blood you'd find at a country fare horror house.

 

[Laser Priest]

I think the real lesson here is: Every game sucks when you play against douchebags online.

 

[bjj hero]

I believe it's called the SNK Boss Syndrome. Every boss is over powered. Zero... *shudders* DAmn he was hard to beat... And Igniz! DX

I prefer K'. Man that guy's the definition of anti-hero. =p

Maxima is a favourite of mine on that team. Anyone who counts a right straight as a special move is alright by me. I like command throws so it was always going to happen.

 

[rabidkanid]

I've never liked fighting games because you spend more time learning how to play than actually playing and the usually very long wall of moves with 5-20 button combinations needed to learn how to play each and every character.

Also take into account the personality of the people I've met who like fighting games. I'm not saying that this is everyone, just the people that I ran into. They were usually very childish and annoying. You're obviously new to the genre, the game looks fun so you want to give it a try even though you don't know jack about what your doing and the first thing they do is beat you into the corner, not letting you move, apparently beating you down just to fill their ego. Yes, congratulations, you beat someone who's never played the game before.

Even if I liked fighting games, I probably eventually wouldn't like fighting other people if I ran into enough people who acted like this. So from my pov this genre has never had any 'honor'. People just like to pretend it does.

 

[elvor0]

that was painful to read, but no. And yes of course the idea is to win, the idea has always been to win, I will agree yes you should play for fun, but a fighting game has a binary outcome (well except for draws, but how often to they pop up?), 1 person is knocked out while the other is victorious.

To say fighting games are dead is just a obliviousness of the massive resurgence in popularity in fighting games, such as Marvel v Capcom 3, SF4, Blazblue and tekken 6/the new mortal kombat to a lesser extent. If it was just people spamming, no one would play them.

Constantly losing is not fun, yes you can analyse why you lost and use it to become better, but constantly losing is NOT fun. Consistently winning is fun, and it's obviously fun for the people doing so, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Not everyone shares the same idea as you as to what fun is.

Have we an online society that discourages loosing? Have we created an online society that encourages only winning? That loosing is a bad thing. You can learn a lot from your wins, but you can learn even more from your mistakes as well.

Encouraging winning is hardly a bad thing, and it should be something you should feel like in real life, while they are games and designed for fun, winning is always better than losing, which is something you should strive for.

Also, the general idea is that you learn how to play and counter opponents, don't give me "we never had to do that in the old days!", because its irrelevant as you were only playing with your mates, not everyone all over the world where there are all sorts of different play styles, which you just have to learn how to deal with and counter.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I've never liked fighting games because you spend more time learning how to play than actually playing and the usually very long wall of moves with 5-20 button combinations needed to learn how to play each and every character.

Also take into account the personality of the people I've met who like fighting games. I'm not saying that this is everyone, just the people that I ran into. They were usually very childish and annoying. You're obviously new to the genre, the game looks fun so you want to give it a try even though you don't know jack about what your doing and the first thing they do is beat you into the corner, not letting you move, apparently beating you down just to fill their ego. Yes, congratulations, you beat someone who's never played the game before.

Even if I liked fighting games, I probably eventually wouldn't like fighting other people if I ran into enough people who acted like this. So from my pov this genre has never had any 'honor'. People just like to pretend it does.

You're playing the game even when learning. Acquiring knowledge is FUN. Why can't you have fun learning something exactly?


As for those types, yeah, they're bad, every community has them, they're not that good though so you shouldn't worry, they get theirs much more than you got yours .

 

[Alluos]

When a player never has to change their tactics to suit the situation, it just becomes a game of rinse & repeat.

I don't think it's a problem with players, the developers should have to account for people using cheap tactics like that, because they CAN and WILL.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

When a player never has to change their tactics to suit the situation, it just becomes a game of rinse & repeat.

I don't think it's a problem with players, the developers should have to account for people using cheap tactics like that, because they CAN and WILL.

That or the other player simply isn't using the method for punishing that repeated action the makers DID put in the game for that exact reason.

 

[katsabas]

How much time do you think you'll be spending on it though?

300 challenges, King Of The Hill, Krypt, Story Mode, Tag Team Matches. Yeah, I will be saying quite some time.

Most serious fighter players spend hundreds if not thousands of hours at their respective games so if we judge a $60 game with 20 or less hours of gameplay as one's "money's worth" they are getting many many many times more worth out of their money than you or any other genre-player.

Oh really? I have sunk more than 300 hours in Burnout 3. Which came out in 2004. It only cost 30 euros. Fallout 3 GOTY. About 250 hours. 60 euros. Unless by serious fighters you mean the ones that actually play nothing but these. Then yeah, you are in a different league entirely. The hours someone spends practicing are not by any means, a sign of professionalism. One can sink 200 hours in SFIV and still suck.

(In all seriousness, the ones that get their money's worth more than anyone are RPG players. For obvious reasons.)

Money's worth is not achieved only through the number of hours one manages to squeeze into the training room. It is achieved by variety. Street Fighter IV needed 3 versions to get that. MK needed just one (this far).

Online has lag and thus is imperfect, the mere fact that you think online tournaments are comparable to offline live matches just shows the difference between other genres and fighters. In fighters where single frames matter (a frame is a sixtieth of a second) you can't have any respectable tournament online.

The Burnout Paradise example was not to refer to the possible tournaments but to the fact that high level competition can be found in any genre. There are Pro Evolution Soccer tournaments with teams of two vs two. You have to have no lag and being able to coop at the same time. You think fighting is the only genre where one despises slowdowns?

It's a childish depiction of violence and gore, together with all the squishy sounds and blood you'd find at a country fare horror house.

It's funny. Some of my friends are doctors that study corpses. And these 'squishy sounds and blood' you refer to are actually there.

About the depiction of violence, it is a game. Of course the depiction is non-realistic. If it were childish, the rating would be E. But it ain't.

SF has always been about a childish depiction of martial arts. Since when does chi materialize into hadokens and sonic booms? Did either game's wrong depictions of concepts stopped them from being one of the best in their genres? No.

Depictions of anything in a game that is not a simulator are flawed. Be that a fighter or not.

As for scarring, dunno about that, I played Silent Hill when I was 10 and I was fine with it...

Depends wholly on the person. Not everyone played survival horror before they hit 15. Maybe your folks didn't pay attention to what you were playing. Mine did. And even if I did have a kid, I wouldn't allow it to play Mortal Kombat. Unless it wanted to study anatomy...

 

[lukeyk]

Hmmm, not everyone does just spam the same move though there are people that do combo. For example a good friend of mine, whom is seemingly a god of MK, was playing online and I was watching. My friend was playing as sektor and the opponent was... Kitana or someone like that cant really remember who it was. However what I do clearly remember is that as soon as it started the opponent did start spamming a projectile attack. So my friend proceeded to teleport close to them and start beating the shit out of them with a huge combo attack that hit them 15 times or so dealing around 40% Damage. The player proceeded to get up and started spamming projectiles again, so my friend just blocked and avoided them until time ran out.

So simply there is a way to counter the projectiles and combo from them. you just gotta learn them D:

 

[Dfskelleton]

It's simple: 94% of people online in fighting games are morons who don't care about enjoying the actual game and having fun, and instead just want to use the quickets tactics to win. However, this is Mortal Kombat, and while MK9 is a lot more balanced that some previous MK titles, a few characters are still a bit overpowered, and Noobs (who, ironically, usually pick Noob, despite how cool he is) will exploit this because they're afraid to lose. Then again, Mortal Kombat did invent fatalities, which are basically designed to rub in your victory as much as possible in an extremely violent manner, and that's part of what has always made MK popular (or hated, depending on your oppinion of the game.)
If you string together multiple combos, throws, and special moves, you can cause some serious damage. I made up one with Scorpion in which you do a teleport punch, a spear move, a small 3 hit combo followed by another spear move, using Scorpion's flame move immediately and finally followed by a forwards throw.
My suggestion: only play with friends you know. They're hopefully a bit more fair than idiots online.
Hopefully as well they'll pick someone besides Noob Saibot.
Slightly off subject: Just to throw in my oppinion, I actually like Mortal Kombat better than Street Fighter. Street Fighter is awesome, but something about Mortal Kombat appeals to me, I just can't figure out what it is.
Flame shield has been activated.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Oh really? I have sunk more than 300 hours in Burnout 3. Which came out in 2004. It only cost 30 euros. Fallout 3 GOTY. About 250 hours. 60 euros. Unless by serious fighters you mean the ones that actually play nothing but these. Then yeah, you are in a different league entirely. The hours someone spends practicing are not by any means, a sign of professionalism. One can sink 200 hours in SFIV and still suck.

(In all seriousness, the ones that get their money's worth more than anyone are RPG players. For obvious reasons.)

Money's worth is not achieved only through the number of hours one manages to squeeze into the training room. It is achieved by variety. Street Fighter IV needed 3 versions to get that. MK needed just one (this far).

I'm actually an RPG player mainly...and I'll have you know my playtime in fighters rivals if not outright surpasses that of my RPG.

As for money's worth, variety or not it's all about the experience. You may have more fun with less variety if the battle system is especially deep.

It's funny. Some of my friends are doctors that study corpses. And these 'squishy sounds and blood' you refer to are actually there.

About the depiction of violence, it is a game. Of course the depiction is non-realistic. If it were childish, the rating would be E. But it ain't.

SF has always been about a childish depiction of martial arts. Since when does chi materialize into hadokens and sonic booms? Did either game's wrong depictions of concepts stopped them from being one of the best in their genres? No.

Depictions of anything in a game that is not a simulator are flawed. Be that a fighter or not.

"Unrealistic" doesn't equal "childish". Hadoukens materialize the way they do by following anime tropes and mythical stories. They're a stylistic depiction stemming from religion, sort of like how our Angels have Halos over their heads. It's not the same thing. Not all unrealistic elements in games are created equal.

Depends wholly on the person. Not everyone played survival horror before they hit 15. Maybe your folks didn't pay attention to what you were playing. Mine did. And even if I did have a kid, I wouldn't allow it to play Mortal Kombat. Unless it wanted to study anatomy...

I actually played it together with my dad and my mom helped us on the riddles too...so yeah...way to generalize lol. Just because kids aren't taught the difference between fiction and reality before they're 15 where you are it doesn't mean that is the case for everyone.

 

[brunothepig]

If they're spamming the same move over and over again you should know how to counter it. If you can't the game wasn't well made.

I'm with this guy.
I haven't played Mortal Kombat, but move spammers don't annoy me because they're easily countered. You know what they're going to do. Smash Bros is a good example, my brother tried spamming almost every character, never got far with it.
If they aren't easily countered, and I don't know, maybe they aren't in MK, then the game is unbalanced, and I suggest you play a different one.