Is gamestop perhaps justified?

Alade

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Aug 10, 2008
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Before I start, let me point out that I loathe the used game system gamestop and other retailers use for two reasons:
A) I don't have access to it and I have to pay double the usual game price where I live, and I still do it, while somebody can have the same game at a quarter the price.
B)It cuts both developer and publisher profits. This is as bad as pirating for them, worse maybe, it's legal.

Now anyways, on to the point. I disagree with gamestop's business practice but I've recently had a mini-ephiphany on why it might be justified. As most of us probably know, the future of video games is in digital retailing, either something like Steam or a new cloud system. Either way, physical copies will not be sought-after goods. I predict that physical copies of games will be sold at specialized stores (like comic stores these days).

As this is bound to happen eventually, retailers will get the shaft. This will bite a huge portion out of their profits, and let's not kid ourselves, the publishers won't care. Once digital distribution gets a hold on the Console market the way it did on the PC, it's over for gamestop (and the others), they are going bankrupt.

But the used games market is another way for them to earn a huge profit before this happens, so in a way, they are justified. I still dislike gamestop, but this is one side of the coin that I never bothered seeing before.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Feb 3, 2010
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You're 100% correct that screwing both the customer and the developer on their used game racket is, indeed, the only real profit margin brick and mortar stores have left as they watch their business get devoured by digital distribution. Lord knows I've tried to support my local EB (Canadian Gamestop). I tried to buy Civ 5 from them. They didn't have it. I tried to buy Starcraft 2 from them. I would've had to pre-order months in advance. I tried to buy Rift from them. They wouldn't sell me two pre-orders unless my girlfriend was physically in the store with me, despite the fact we'd bought games there before and we were both in the system as living at the same address. They constantly fail to have the games I want, and when they do have them, they won't sell them to me for random idiotic reasons unless I jump through 100 hoops. Digital distribution is faster, cheaper, and more reliable.

So...do they make a profit? Yeah. Is that profit "justified"? I'm not sure how you qualify that. Do I care if every EB and Gamestop in the world goes bust in the next 5 years, buried under the rubble of their decrepit, shady, user-hostile business plan? NOPE!
 

Johann610

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Nov 20, 2009
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No. A dozen times no. A long no. Noooooooooooo. Gamestop isn't BANKING these obscene profits, it's plowing them into advertising, acquiring its expiring competitors, and various questionable accounting.
They do what they do, because they can. They can, because casual gamers don't know better. They will, until these people learn better, but they won't ever.
"Selling a product doomed to extinction" might make the corporation an endangered species, but it doesn't justify what they do in the meantime. Ask the people who used to sell whale oil and whalebone, by golly.
To borrow a line from Whistle Blower Zero, I don't see that Gamestop will ever have trouble putting baby meat on the table.
 

aetherlev

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Sep 13, 2011
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Have you seen the report that they'll be releasing an Android gaming tablet? This could mean the start of their own Steam-like digital game store.

Here's the link for the curious: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/09/gamestop-android-tablet/

If Steam actually opened a store on Android, I would be all over that in a heartbeat, but in the meantime it looks like Gamestop might be onto something. Going after the casual market, perhaps?
 

BloatedGuppy

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aetherlev said:
Have you seen the report that they'll be releasing an Android gaming tablet? This could mean the start of their own Steam-like digital game store.

Here's the link for the curious: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/09/gamestop-android-tablet/

If Steam actually opened a store on Android, I would be all over that in a heartbeat, but in the meantime it looks like Gamestop might be onto something. Going after the casual market, perhaps?
Oh they'll have games for your tablet.

So long as you remembered to pre-order, 6 months in advance! They'll thrown in a strategy guide and byte insurance for only $20 extra!
 

PlasmaFrog

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Feb 2, 2009
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No, but eliminating any competitors all together would mean for a drop in profits since Gamestop is a huge partner in the industry. Heck, even other businesses are following in their tracks at this point.

If they want to solve this issues, publishers might want to think about moving onto the next method of distribution, like digital. Although, this still wouldn't stop people from sharing accounts and sharing their games, further resulting in the loss of profit.
I.E. - PSN account sharing


Either way, customers will always seek the cheaper alternative simply because it's cheaper. Publishers are pretty much doomed by this mindset, as with how they have for say, since the beginning of the gaming industry. As for this mindless Gamestop hatred, they're a business and like any other business, they'll want profit. Just view them as a positive source for actually marketing new titles.
 

Savagezion

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Hehe, I like your reason A. I don't think digital distribution is a good idea, personally, so I am in Gamestop's corner completely for that. I don't think this would put Gamestop under as they could still sell all kinds of video game memorabilia and even specialize in the used hard copy last gen games of yesteryear even if this did happen. Plus, don't forget about those facebook cards and activation keys and such. But I do believe people like buying things they can hold and don't think digital distribution will ever take over in my lifetime. I do think that I may see Gamestop step out into a heavier version of digital distribution before I die though.

I don't know, for me, I love Gamestop and feel bad you don't have one near you. I travel around the central US a lot and whenever I see a Gamestop I always swing in. I actually have a ritual where I try to find a used copy of Psychonauts and Mass Effect 1 because it is so rare that you actually find one. Psychonauts moreso than ME1. Theif is another one that is fun to hunt for. I actually want to buy that game though. L.A. Noire is getting somewhat more common I have noticed. Most of the stock in all Gamestops I run across are mostly the same games though so that is why I don't buy into half the stuff that gets said about the used game "ruining the industry". It's funny to me that people are trading in the same games.

Retailers have to look out for themselves because no one else will. A specialty shop is very concerned about the state of the industry and will make sure it doesn't hurt too bad because shit rolls downhill. Personally, I see a lot of justification in it. Gamestop actually pays developers extra money to give them bonus content if you buy the game from Gamestop. Some of that money could be argued to be from used games sales. So they are actually paying developers more money to make more stuff for their game so that people will buy more NEW copies from Gamestop. That is win-win for developers and Gamestop couldn't have that kind of flex spending money if they only sold new games. I think they are justified and a lot of the used games argument is publishers blowing smoke as a big bluff.
 

lord.jeff

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Oct 27, 2010
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This isn't unique to Gamestop or games for that matter, Blockbuster is the only movie outlet left around anymore and they're holding on by a thread, Borders just closed thanks to Amazon(not downloads but still the internet killing a retail market). Your going to see a lot of stores closing down over the next few years.
 

StriderShinryu

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aetherlev said:
Have you seen the report that they'll be releasing an Android gaming tablet? This could mean the start of their own Steam-like digital game store.

Here's the link for the curious: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/09/gamestop-android-tablet/

If Steam actually opened a store on Android, I would be all over that in a heartbeat, but in the meantime it looks like Gamestop might be onto something. Going after the casual market, perhaps?
They already have a download service lined up for in store use and, if my memory is correct, they recently took over an existing digital download store as well. They're already moving in that direction.
 

funguy2121

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Alade said:
I loathe the used game system gamestop and other retailers use for two reasons:
A) I don't have access to it and I have to pay double the usual game price where I live, and I still do it, while somebody can have the same game at a quarter the price.
B)It cuts both developer and publisher profits. This is as bad as pirating for them, worse maybe, it's legal.
So it's bad because (a) you don't think it's fair since you don't have access to it and (b) you think it cuts dev/publisher profits, therefore it's worse than pirating. That's not a very strong argument. You're online; check out Amazon, eBay and Craig's List some time. That takes care of (a). As for (b), I commented on this earlier today, below.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.312494-Heavy-Rain-Dev-Says-Pre-Owned-Sales-Cost-it-Millions?page=5#12660748

What I didn't mention there is that the used games market doesn't even take effect for a game until its sales have slowed so dramatically that it can be bought at a price that makes it seem worthwhile to the consumer to forgo packaging and online extras. A year and a half from now, who's going to be buying Catherine, and who cares? The used market is right now getting me pumped up to pay full price for the next Uncharted, Modern Warfare, Bioshock, Battlefield and Ninja Gaiden. Think about that last one for a second. Do you really think I'm significantly hurting developers for buying Ninja Gaiden Sigma and Rainbow Six Vegas used in 2011?

Alade said:
...why it might be justified. As most of us probably know, the future of video games is in digital retailing, either something like Steam or a new cloud system. Either way, physical copies will not be sought-after goods. I predict that physical copies of games will be sold at specialized stores (like comic stores these days).
Really? Physical products will be sold at retailers? Goods and services will be exchanged for currency, in a capitalist society? No way :p

Alade said:
As this is bound to happen eventually, retailers will get the shaft. This will bite a huge portion out of their profits, and let's not kid ourselves, the publishers won't care. Once digital distribution gets a hold on the Console market the way it did on the PC, it's over for gamestop (and the others), they are going bankrupt.

But the used games market is another way for them to earn a huge profit before this happens, so in a way, they are justified. I still dislike gamestop, but this is one side of the coin that I never bothered seeing before.
Sigh. Ever heard of Netflix, LoveFilm and Gamefly? Eff Blockbuster for not providing a competitive (read: quality/fair-priced) product. Let 'em burn in Hell. And Eff Gamestop if they don't adapt when the cloud happens, if it happens. Also: eff Gamestop for opening and tampering with product, then re-shrink-wrapping it and selling it as new. Eff Gamestop for every time (you should try it, I guarantee you'll get some hits) I walked in and asked when the new Mario was coming out and they said "Next month!" (every time it's been over a year away). Eff Gamestop for having inattentive, ill-educated employees who couldn't make a proper recommendation to save their lives. "What's that you say, sir? You like adventure and quest games, you like character development and prefer split screen to online play, and hate RPGs? Well, then, I gotta recommend Bulletstorm and Borderlands and Final Fantasy since those are the games I play when I'm stoned."

The market you're talking about was CREATED by the entities that became Gamestop. They aren't entitled to a market that only existed because they created it and will likely disappear if they don't adapt to an actually good business model.

Also: eff gamestop. I may not have a mom-and-pop used electronics store in my new small town, but I have a Best Buy, and they sell used games and new games for reasonable prices.
 

Stall

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aetherlev said:
Have you seen the report that they'll be releasing an Android gaming tablet? This could mean the start of their own Steam-like digital game store.

Here's the link for the curious: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/09/gamestop-android-tablet/

If Steam actually opened a store on Android, I would be all over that in a heartbeat, but in the meantime it looks like Gamestop might be onto something. Going after the casual market, perhaps?
Naw. I think Gamestop wants a piece of the pipping hot, delicious Android/iOS gaming pie. I'm not so much convinced that they are trying to corner the casual market, but feel left out of a new gaming platform that they can't be a part of, so they aim to change that. I'm sure some Gamestop exec was like: "Hm, these Android/iOS games are selling millions, yet we are not getting any of it? We must capitalize on it! Quickly gentlemen! Make me a tablet so I can get purchase a second golden bathtub of money!".

I'm going to call it RIGHT now: it's going to be a 7", single core, 8GB (expandable with microSD), wi-fi only Gingerbread tab with a HEAVILY modified version of Android that will sell for 200-300 dollars. It will not have access to the standard Android market, but instead a marketplace exclusive to the Gamestop device. The tab will come with a USB port to be used with a customer controller for the device.

However, Amazon is going to be releasing a Kindle tablet in this price range too by the end of this year. This means Gamestop will get tenderly loved by Amazon's massive, throbbing, beast of a tablet. Gamestop is going to have a hard time sitting down for a few weeks after their tab fails, to say the least.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Alade said:
Before I start, let me point out that I loathe the used game system gamestop and other retailers use for two reasons:
A) I don't have access to it and I have to pay double the usual game price where I live, and I still do it, while somebody can have the same game at a quarter the price.
B)It cuts both developer and publisher profits. This is as bad as pirating for them, worse maybe, it's legal.

Now anyways, on to the point. I disagree with gamestop's business practice but I've recently had a mini-ephiphany on why it might be justified. As most of us probably know, the future of video games is in digital retailing, either something like Steam or a new cloud system. Either way, physical copies will not be sought-after goods. I predict that physical copies of games will be sold at specialized stores (like comic stores these days).

As this is bound to happen eventually, retailers will get the shaft. This will bite a huge portion out of their profits, and let's not kid ourselves, the publishers won't care. Once digital distribution gets a hold on the Console market the way it did on the PC, it's over for gamestop (and the others), they are going bankrupt.

But the used games market is another way for them to earn a huge profit before this happens, so in a way, they are justified. I still dislike gamestop, but this is one side of the coin that I never bothered seeing before.

Well I tend to disagree with your asessement here, see the used game sales don't cut into the profits of the publishers because that resale value is part of what justifies the high price tag of games. It's become a part of the business model that someone buying a game for $50 or $60 can trade the game towards another game and recoup some of that expense. While you don't hear this pointed out by the industry much anymore, it WAS a point made in defense of high game prices the last couple of console generations.

The complaints now are based around pure greed, and bean counters trying to say that they believe without used games people would be paying full prices for the games new. This of course also overlooks that without a favorable trade in value people are less likely to want to dish out the already expensive price for the game. Sure the publisher might be supporting a title through 3 or 4 differant owners some time, but that's really no big thing when they are supposed to support that product indefinatly anyway, if one guy has the game for 10 years or so and 3-4 people have it for 10 years between them in the end there is no real differance, it's mostly just the game companies screaming for more money, since their billions are not enough to make them happy.

Also do not misunderstand that the game developers lose nothing off of this, there are rare exceptions, but in general people talk about gamers stealing from developers through things like used game sales because it garners sympathy, it just happens to be a lie.

See, the way the game industry works is that publishers typically hire developers to make a game for them. The cost of making the game, the development budget, is the money being paid to the developers which they use to pay themselves since 99% of the cost here is human resources, in the scope of these projects the cost of materials (office space & computers) is minimal. If a game costs like say 30 million dollars to make that means the developers pocketed 30 million dollars to make the game.

Once the game is done, the developers have gotten their money, it's a done deal. It's all about the publisher making money off of sales to cover what they paid the developer with anything beyond that being profit.

Understand that the guys who MAKE the games lose nothing from piracy, used game sales, or anything else, just by there being a game they already made their money. The danger to them is far less direct, in that if the publishers don't make money they won't continue to hire developers. This does not mean piracy is right or anything, simply that you need to understand who is being victimized, and also that there is a substantial differance between "losing money" and "making less money than we potentially could be".

Now there ARE exceptions to this, there are cases when a developer will have an idea for a game it feels it can sell, and rather than being hired to make money for someone, they will borrow money and effectively publish themselves. In this case they take however much money they decide to pay themselves for the development, and then hope that the product will make enough money to pay off their loan and have extra money on top of that. Even under this system the devs get paid all the millions they lived off of while they made the game. The big risk here in the worst case scenario is being unable to pay off the loan, and creditors not being willing to extend them further credit for that reason.


The distinction is important because of the way sympathy is paid off of here. A gamer is liable to feel more sympathy for the people who make the games, than the person who is simply a penny pincher and is fronting the money. The developers are rarely if ever at risk from anything related to these discussions.

In the end my personal attitude is that piracy (which is unrelated to this specific discussion, but to the overall issue) is wrong, but used game sales are fine because of how they figure into the value of the games and pricing, and also because the game sales aren't costing anyone anything, they just tend to mean that publishers make a little less money than they would like.
 

lord.jeff

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Larva said:
Alade said:
This is as bad as pirating...
This is where I stopped giving a shit about your opinion and stopped reading.

Does being a corporate shill pay well, or do you just do it as a hobby?
He said
Alade said:
This is as bad as pirating for them
he was talking about it from there prospective, no need to be an ass about it.
 

Vuljatar

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Sep 7, 2008
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Alade said:
Before I start, let me point out that I loathe the used game system gamestop and other retailers use for two reasons:
A) I don't have access to it and I have to pay double the usual game price where I live, and I still do it, while somebody can have the same game at a quarter the price.
Uh, so let me get this straight, just since you "don't have access to" used games, you think nobody should?

B)It cuts both developer and publisher profits. This is as bad as pirating for them, worse maybe, it's legal.
If they made games that were worth holding on to, they would have nothing to worry about. Welcome to the free market, bitches; if you can't be bothered to give your game re-playability then the consumer will decide that you don't deserve to make a fortune on it.
 

Smooth Operator

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In a business sense yes they are "justified" to fuck all parties involved in order to turn a profit, and that is how every business does it.
On a moral note tho, they are scamming pricks so avoid them like the plague.

Game second hand market is no different then any other, only issue here is some people are retarded and don't think even for a second about howmuch their game is worth.
 

emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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Justified at what, being a business? Theres companies out there that make and sell weapons that could commit war crimes and wipe entire villages off the map. gamestop found a model that works, and they're making money. Thats the point of a business, and they're doing so rather efficiently it would seem. Just because some people get butthurt over their return policy and like to claim that gamestop is killing developers and its wrong to not give developers a piece of a cut on used games sales (which any other place that sells used games also doesnt do, especially if you buy used on Amazon or ebay) doesnt mean they're not justified to exist.

seriously, its not like anyone puts a gun to your head and forces you to buy from them.
 

thelastmccabe

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I've never really understood the used games are evil thing. What then, are used books evil too? Hell, selling ANYTHING used must be evil then.