Alot of great games out there. Really more done with talking about games with people. Can take whiny gamers when it's on the internet, not in real life. Have to say that the industry is not pissing me off, it's the people that play the games. I am not talking about gamers bitching about stuff that is legit. Every time I listen to one go on and on about how some game sucks because it has stayed the same and blah blah blah(You have no idea what you are talking about.)
Is gaming dead?
- Thread starter EzraPound
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Gaming isn't dead, it's undead. It's shambling corpse will walk around for eternity because its loved ones wont let it die.
It's easy to say such hyperbolic things when you've lived through 98-02, but for those who haven't, I just feel sorry for you. The last time games hit its stride before that was with the SNES, and even then, games were far more hit and miss.
So yes OP, I agree with your observations, but I am a little more hopeful that things will turn around eventually. There still are devs out there that don't want to make a game for the sake of the big bucks, but because of their passion for the medium. Besides, once gaming dies down as a fad in the mainstream consciousness, all that cash those casuals threw around won't be feeding any CEOs any longer, and they will have to try harder.
It's easy to say such hyperbolic things when you've lived through 98-02, but for those who haven't, I just feel sorry for you. The last time games hit its stride before that was with the SNES, and even then, games were far more hit and miss.
So yes OP, I agree with your observations, but I am a little more hopeful that things will turn around eventually. There still are devs out there that don't want to make a game for the sake of the big bucks, but because of their passion for the medium. Besides, once gaming dies down as a fad in the mainstream consciousness, all that cash those casuals threw around won't be feeding any CEOs any longer, and they will have to try harder.
You forget that for every golden game you mentioned in your OP, there were a 100 creatively bankrupt titles.EzraPound said:
Seriously, look at the list of all PSX games released in the West. You'll quickly notice how crap the majority of games were. I mean, they made an M&M's platform game for Christ' sake!
It seems to be a common trend on the escapist to decry the gaming industry as dying. But (and this is to everyone) how many modern games that you consider to be shit have you actually played? I'll admit, I've told people that a certain game is garbage not because I've actually played it, but because I've watched a Zero Punctuation review. Modern games often don't have the complexity or depth of the games of yesteryear but many of them are still fun (a term I realize is completely subjective). Fallout 2, for instance, is an amazing game because of its storytelling, character complexity (in terms of it being an rpg - not in a plotwise sense) and so on - but in all honesty, I had more fun with and dumped more hours in New Vegas and Fallout 3.
Maybe I don't have as a 'refined' taste in gaming as you, so be it, I'd rather be ignorant and enjoy modern games (not all of them, I will readily admit many games are fucking atrocious but then, a lot of games that were released in the past were also fucking atrocious) then continually mope about "the state of the industry.
Now if you excuse me, I'm going to play FTL
Maybe I don't have as a 'refined' taste in gaming as you, so be it, I'd rather be ignorant and enjoy modern games (not all of them, I will readily admit many games are fucking atrocious but then, a lot of games that were released in the past were also fucking atrocious) then continually mope about "the state of the industry.
Now if you excuse me, I'm going to play FTL
By "history" I'm pretty sure you mean "you". Just because you happen to not enjoy a certain game as much as it's predecessor does not mean it's the same for everyone else.EzraPound said:
This is another thing that bugs me about a lot of gamers.FreedomofInformation said:
"Wow, this game is a lot of fun!"
"Whatever, it's just a dumbed down version of *insert game here*
Why does a game need to be measured by how complex it is? Why does a game have to be measured in terms of what it's predecessor is like? Why can't a game just stand out on it's own and be judged on it's own merits? (Unless it's a sequel that requires knowledge of the first game to have any idea what's going on)
So what if Bioshock isn't as needlessly complex as your precious System Shock? I still find it to be a very good game.
I wanted to make a long, elaborate gag involving a Regina Spektor song about Ezra Pound (which happens to be the name of the OP) which involved lyrics that basically said "if you do not die... then Ezra Pound will come to you, sit on your bed... etc).
But then I realized it's REALLY late and I should go to bed before I do anything I regret.
<youtube=LRUIiwaS0_4>
OT: Nope. Personally, this generation have given more pleasure and impressed me more than the oft-whispered year of 1998.
Starcraft < Starcraft II.
Thief < Splinter Cell (Oh yes, I just went there).
Tomb Raider III < ... OK, admittedly no Tomb Raider style game is better than Tomb Raider III.
Pokemon Red/Blue < Pokemon Black/White.
Fallout 2 and Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment all have similar style spiritual successors in the works with no publishing constraints.
Etc.
But then I realized it's REALLY late and I should go to bed before I do anything I regret.
<youtube=LRUIiwaS0_4>
OT: Nope. Personally, this generation have given more pleasure and impressed me more than the oft-whispered year of 1998.
Starcraft < Starcraft II.
Thief < Splinter Cell (Oh yes, I just went there).
Tomb Raider III < ... OK, admittedly no Tomb Raider style game is better than Tomb Raider III.
Pokemon Red/Blue < Pokemon Black/White.
Fallout 2 and Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment all have similar style spiritual successors in the works with no publishing constraints.
Etc.
Not only an M&M's platform game, an M&M's platform game that directly rips off Crash Bandicoot!Terramax said:
At about 10:34
BTW, how do you embed the video in a way so that you can have people watch a certain part of the video? I've seen some people do it, but I don't know how. :/
I honestly have no clue what OP is even talking about, and will assume he is, indeed, tripping balls.
The gaming industry is even bigger than it was ten years ago. With more and more people being able to get access to more affordable systems, it'll probably stay that way unless the most catastrophic thing were to happen.
The gaming industry is even bigger than it was ten years ago. With more and more people being able to get access to more affordable systems, it'll probably stay that way unless the most catastrophic thing were to happen.
I KNOW I got into an argument with somebody else over this topic recently. Kinda' bothers me that there's another one. The long and the short of it is that NO, I don't think gaming is dead. And before we get on any sort of historical debate about the great video game crash and if times now resemble it at all, I'm just going to flat out say NO IT DOESN'T.
There's way too much money in it than those days, and as long as they see dollar signs, it's not dead. That's the bottom line.
There's way too much money in it than those days, and as long as they see dollar signs, it's not dead. That's the bottom line.
Like this:scorptatious said:
[ youtube = blahblahblahblah & start = seconds (& end = seconds) ], if you desire to end it at the right moment as well. All without spaces. If you add "&autoplay=1" to it, make sure you put it in a spoiler.
<youtube=_oHHaKuG48A&start=634>
Like that.
WAIT, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS -
I could not disagree more. I started gaming in the late 90's, and things have just gotten better since then in my opinion. There were some incredible, stellar games of this generation. Dark Souls. Spec Ops: The Line. Red Dead Redemption. Portal 2. Journey. The Unfinished Swan. Bioshock 1, 2 and Infinite. Pokemon Black and White 1 and 2. Civ V. Thomas Was Alone. The Mass Effect Trilogy. LittleBigPlanet 1 & 2. Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2. DK Country Returns. Xenoblade Chronicles. Skyward Sward. Skyrim. Fallout 3 and NV.I haven't even touched the surface. The level of immersion provided by games like Dark Souls, RDR and Skyrim is something that wouldn't have been possible in generations earlier than this, and the processing power of this gen has allowed for huge worlds like those of Just Cause 2.
Also, look at storytelling. I mean, Spec Ops, Sleeping Dogs, Thomas Was Alone, Portal 2, Bioshock Infinite...these games make me feel something in a way that games never have before. They make me care about the characters, and their stories, and they craft believable worlds that I can get lost in.
I know this is all personal opinion, but I'm afraid you and I must remain at odds in that department, OP. You're entitlesd to your opinion, but mine remains that gaming has been getting better and better since I started playing, and nothing can diminish the wondrous experiences I've had this generation
Also, look at storytelling. I mean, Spec Ops, Sleeping Dogs, Thomas Was Alone, Portal 2, Bioshock Infinite...these games make me feel something in a way that games never have before. They make me care about the characters, and their stories, and they craft believable worlds that I can get lost in.
I know this is all personal opinion, but I'm afraid you and I must remain at odds in that department, OP. You're entitlesd to your opinion, but mine remains that gaming has been getting better and better since I started playing, and nothing can diminish the wondrous experiences I've had this generation
This is the era that gave us Journey, Bastion, Limbo, and the Arkham games. Honestly, you're just letting your nostalgia goggles get the better of you. There were plenty of shitty games during the so-called golden years, and they all washed away. Soon, all the crappy games of today will fade away, leaving the gems in public memory.
Given I am an old coot around here (I was 12 years old in 1983 and started gaming with at Atari 2600) I have to say that it's a bit strange to think that gaming has been in decline since 2001. From both a well-established industry record and my own perspective thee last 12 or so years have been the best yet, and after decades I'm finally enjoying games that are truly amazing on many levels, both in terms of immersion, presentation, graphics and design.
It's fine to enjoy some old Atari Classics now, because you can choose from the vast array of titles that have flooded the market....but trust me when I say that when that was all there was, and the prospect of better was just a fever dream....yeah, I never want to go back to that.
That said, the industry is in decline right now for three reasons: 1st, the general economic problems of the world are having a slow but certain impact on an industry that depends on disposable income and time. 2nd, the market is literally saturated with content and is effectively in competition with itself. 3rd the current console generation has overstayed its welcome by about two years and is finally feeling the sting of obsolescence. They're working on fixing #3 with the new console generation. #2 is a bigger issue, and one I think that they are trying to fix through ways to phase out old content and monetize new content in more aggressive ways and I expect that will cause more problems than it fixes. #1 is dependent on many other factors outside of the game industry.
It's fine to enjoy some old Atari Classics now, because you can choose from the vast array of titles that have flooded the market....but trust me when I say that when that was all there was, and the prospect of better was just a fever dream....yeah, I never want to go back to that.
That said, the industry is in decline right now for three reasons: 1st, the general economic problems of the world are having a slow but certain impact on an industry that depends on disposable income and time. 2nd, the market is literally saturated with content and is effectively in competition with itself. 3rd the current console generation has overstayed its welcome by about two years and is finally feeling the sting of obsolescence. They're working on fixing #3 with the new console generation. #2 is a bigger issue, and one I think that they are trying to fix through ways to phase out old content and monetize new content in more aggressive ways and I expect that will cause more problems than it fixes. #1 is dependent on many other factors outside of the game industry.
Oh look, another one of those "I don't like any modern games because my nostalgia glasses prevent me from seeing that games these days are still pretty good, so that means GAMING IS RUINED FOR EVVEEERRRYOOONNNEE!!" threads. Haven't seen this sort of thing before at all. [small]/sarcasm[/small]
To put it lightly: no. Gaming is not dead. And no, gaming is not worse than it was way back in those golden years you ramble about like some old guy in a rocking chair on his porch yelling at the kids on his lawn. Yes, there's a lot of crap out there today, but guess what: there were a lot of crappy games a decade/two decades ago too! Shocking, right? I mean, yeah, we've got a lot of bad CoD-ish clones these days, but remember back in the late 80's when there were a shitton of bad Mario clones? Or what about in the early 90's where everybody was trying to create an anthropomorphic mascot with "attitude" to cash in on the success of Sonic the Hedgehog? Or all of the bad Doom clones of the mid 90's? The explosion of open world action games made to ride on the GTA bandwagon in the 2000's?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say all games are better today than they once were. Nor am I some little youngster who never was alive during that "golden age" of video gaming everybody seems to be unable to agree on when it actually existed. And yes, I do realize that there are some bullshit business practices out there today. I just actually, you know, realize that everything old isn't better than everything new. I actually have an open mind and don't superglue my rose-tinted nostalgia goggles to my head in a vain effort to look like I know better when I actually don't. I just have fun, because guess what: games are still fun.
Gaming never has been and never will be "dead". Simple as that.
To put it lightly: no. Gaming is not dead. And no, gaming is not worse than it was way back in those golden years you ramble about like some old guy in a rocking chair on his porch yelling at the kids on his lawn. Yes, there's a lot of crap out there today, but guess what: there were a lot of crappy games a decade/two decades ago too! Shocking, right? I mean, yeah, we've got a lot of bad CoD-ish clones these days, but remember back in the late 80's when there were a shitton of bad Mario clones? Or what about in the early 90's where everybody was trying to create an anthropomorphic mascot with "attitude" to cash in on the success of Sonic the Hedgehog? Or all of the bad Doom clones of the mid 90's? The explosion of open world action games made to ride on the GTA bandwagon in the 2000's?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say all games are better today than they once were. Nor am I some little youngster who never was alive during that "golden age" of video gaming everybody seems to be unable to agree on when it actually existed. And yes, I do realize that there are some bullshit business practices out there today. I just actually, you know, realize that everything old isn't better than everything new. I actually have an open mind and don't superglue my rose-tinted nostalgia goggles to my head in a vain effort to look like I know better when I actually don't. I just have fun, because guess what: games are still fun.
Gaming never has been and never will be "dead". Simple as that.
No more than the Silver Age of comics killed comic books, or the shift to 'morality plays' in Medieval times killed theatre.
Take your youtube link, and figure out the time - in seconds - you want to start at. In this case, that's 10:34 or 634 seconds. At the end of the link, type "&start=Your time here". Again, in this case that means &start=634. You can similarly end the video at a specific time by adding a &end in a similar format. The result looks something like this:scorptatious said:
Sorry to be that guy, but using "literally" for emphasis doesn't work that way. The literal meaning of "gaming" is conceptual, and as a concept, it cannot literally die, because it cannot be literally alive in the first place. When a person says "literally", it means exactly what they're saying, it's not meant to be used as a hazy approximation like "very" or "really".EzraPound said:
OP: No, I don't think gaming is "dying" either way. I don't think there's going to be a crash, I don't think there's a Despair Event Horizon regarding games, I don't think anything negative about games in general. Some companies will shut down, others will merge, others will become subsidiaries to EA, one console will sell better than the other, Square will keep releasing Final Fantasy games, Valve will keep not releasing Half Life 3, DRM will remain a pain and somebody somewhere will be outraged with their pre-order. The only major change I can see happening is Sony, Windows or Nintendo losing out at some point, the way Atari and Sega did before. But nothing too drastic anytime soon.
I disagree, I think that Indie is doing absolutely fine to fill the creative void left by AAA. Some of my favourite games recently have been indie titles like; Mark of the Ninja, The Binding of Isaac, FTL, Orcs Must Die. All have come in and said 'we're not a generic power fantasy shooter, but interesting concepts wrapped up in neat stories'.EzraPound said:
And even then there are sparks of brilliance from recent titles like Spec Ops: The Line, Bioshock: Infinite, Alan Wake, Red Dead Redemption, Batman: Arkham Asylum/City, The Darkness, Portal 2, The Witcher 2, Mirrors Edge, Metro 2033, Just Cause 2, Call of Duty 4. There are most likely others, but you get the point.
Of course there is going to be overrated crap in the limelight that a large portion of gamers are sick of but I'm sure it was always that way.
And no gaming is not "dead", it will never be "dead".
Yes, everyone who plays games has been put to death, anything you can play games on has been burnt. The feminists did this to us, they did it because they hate penis.