Is it immoral to keep pets?

[JoJo]

Picture the scene. You're just a human kid minding your own business when suddenly without warning, super-intelligent aliens take you away from your mother and into a strange new place run by other aliens. You can't understand more than a word or two of their language and most of it's simply unlearnable by human ears for various reasons, yet they scold or hit you whenever you do something against their arbitrary rules which to you make no sense. You are fed either scraps from the table, or second rate food they buy specially. You have to pretend to be eager and be a "good human" when your masters return if you want to ever get any treats. If you're unfortunate, they may live in an environment which you can't survive in and so the rest of your life will be confined to one small tank.

When they go out, you are left alone or in the car or tied up outside, or if you're lucky you might get to come along with a rope tied around your neck so you can't escape from your "family". If the aliens keep more than one human of different genders, then there's a good chance that they'll have you castrated to prevent the inevitable, or perhaps worse maybe use you as a breeder and then take your kids away before they're grown. The aliens have far longer a lifespan than humans and so when you get old and too expensive to keep, they have you euthanatised, cry a few crocodile tears and then forget about you when they go buy a new pet human. That is your life.

.

This may sound like a horror story but in fact it's the grim reality of the millions of animals kept by us humans as "pets". I often see discussions about the morality of eating animals, or farming them for fur, but rarely this question comes up so I ask you Escapists today, is it really morally okay to keep animals as pets or do animals deserve the right to be free?

Edit: I'll be away from the Escapist for a while for the time of writing, so I won't be able to reply to any more quotes on this thread from 10pm UK time onwards, just a head's up. Feel free to keep discussing the thread matter though ;-)

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I mean this in the nicest way possible.

Dogs, cats and other pets are too stupid to know that they're pets.

Also, my dog seems very happy with her life.

Better food than in the wild, better healthcare than in the wild, better beds than in the wild.

The wild seems kind of lame

 

[Rowan93]

You haven't really given any reason for us to believe the creatures are superintelligent, you've just put a human in the place of a dog.

A human is not a dog, a human is more intelligent than a dog, and humans being more intelligent than dogs matters.

 

[Bernzz]

I mean this in the nicest way possible.

Dogs, cats and other pets are too stupid to know that they're pets.

Also, my dog seems very happy with her life.

Better food than in the wild, better healthcare than in the wild, better beds than in the wild.

The wild seems kind of lame

And the thread is already over.

Dogs don't think the way we do, they don't reason the same. All of my dogs think we're all a big pack, and they obey us because to them, we're higher up in the chain of command. And they don't resent us, they all fucking love us. So, yeah, not the same situation.

 

[Iron Criterion]

I mean this in the nicest way possible.

Dogs, cats and other pets are too stupid to know that they're pets.

Also, my dog seems very happy with her life.

Better food than in the wild, better healthcare than in the wild, better beds than in the wild.

The wild seems kind of lame

/thread.

Animals are different from Humans. Their lives are often improved by them becoming a pet (assuming they have responsible, loving owners) whereas Humans are supposedly intelligent creatures who can think for and look after themselves; to take that away from us would make us prisoners.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

Pet animals are far, far too stupid to know this If you adopt them when they're young, they forget their family. And if you don't adopt them when they're young, then they've probably been abandoned and are happy to be in a family.

I love my dogs, and they don't mind just sitting in a bed for hours. Greyhounds are the laziest animals ever.

Animals really, really like being pets. They love being it. Domestic animals =/= humans.

 

[Phasmal]

That's a bit overdramatic, don't you think?

I've had pets all my life, and I'm pretty sure if they were secretly despairing and suicidal from the `capture` we would have noticed. All my pets have been happy and loved- `crocodile tears` my arse. (Also, I do not hit animals)

My animals were always members of the family.

I seriously doubt they would be happier in the wild where the chances of surviving to adulthood are low and they would struggle for food and probably die painfully.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

That's a bit overdramatic, don't you think?

I've had pets all my life, and I'm pretty sure if they were secretly despairing and suicidal from the `capture` we would have noticed. All my pets have been happy and loved- `crocodile tears` my arse. (Also, I do not hit animals)

My animals were always members of the family.

I seriously doubt they would be happier in the wild where the chances of surviving to adulthood are low and they would struggle for food and probably die painfully.

Reminds me of this picture

Dogs knew exactly what they were getting into.

 

[Secret world leader (shhh)]

Hmm, i suppose you kind of have a point. I'm sure many cats would rather live in their natural way rather than be declawed and neutered. I know i'll get people saying "oh but they're well fed and safe and loved etc" but is that really worth it? Humans have evolved to live a life of indoor safety and pre-packaged food, why should we enforce that on animals?

 

[JoJo]

Animals really, really like being pets. They love being it. Domestic animals =/= humans.

Not to pick on you in particular but I was anticipating this point coming up and I have to ask: how do you know they like being a pet? It's not like they can tell you in words and as a university biology student I can tell you that body language isn't universal across species, for examples chimps "smile" when they're angry.

 

[Schadrach]

Ask my cat, he's allowed to come and go almost as he pleases (we do try to make him spend the night inside due to certain local wildlife), but when he shoulders my bedroom door open, jumps on me, crawls up my chest, buries his head under my beard and starts purring before I've even touched him, I'm pretty sure it's because he wants to. When he's not in that mood he finds somewhere that other people aren't to perch.

In reference to body language, I'm pretty sure cuddling and purring are not presentations of anger, though purring doubles as a stress marker (female cats often purr when birthing, for example).

 

[Hero in a half shell]

We had a guy in at our school with birds of prey, he had an owl there and one of the things that really struck me was when he said in captivity an owls natural lifespan is about 2 years, before their dangerous, crappy lifestyle kills them. In captivity it's about 8 years. That's four times as long. Now I know that dogs and cats are different, and the extra lifespan won't be as much, but kept as pets the animals will survive longer than they would have in the wild, and they have a much higher standard of living.

Better food at regular guaranteed intervals, Shelter, safety, companionship, healthcare, kept clean, flea free, dewormed. All these are huge benefits for a pet. The only compromise they have to make is less freedom, a smaller area to excercise in, and (maybe) a lack of their own species to interact with.

It's a very fair trade-off, especially since most pets are born into domesticated families, and wouldn't survive in the wild anymore anyway.

EDIT: As far as how the animals feel about it look at this cat:

Does this cat look sad to you?

 

[General Twinkletoes]

Animals really, really like being pets. They love being it. Domestic animals =/= humans.

Not to pick on you in particular but I was anticipating this point coming up and I have to ask: how do you know they like being a pet? It's not like they can tell you in words and as a university biology student I can tell you that body language isn't universal across species, for examples chimps "smile" when they're angry.

Have you had a pet?

You can easily tell what they like/dislike, when they're happy/sad etc...

For example, it's obvious when they're eager for something - They start being very exited and jumping around.

When chimps smile angrily the rest of their body language shows they're pissed.
Dogs especially, are very emotive. The reaction of getting treats is the same as me coming home, or patting and playing with them. If you've had a pet, and you had trouble telling if it was happy or not, I'm not sure you should have one.

 

[tippy2k2]

Ask my cat, he's allowed to come and go almost as he pleases (we do try to make him spend the night inside due to certain local wildlife), but when he shoulders my bedroom door open, jumps on me, crawls up my chest, buries his head under my beard and starts purring before I've even touched him, I'm pretty sure it's because he wants to. When he's not in that mood he finds somewhere that other people aren't to perch.

In reference to body language, I'm pretty sure cuddling and purring are not presentations of anger, though purring doubles as a stress marker (female cats often purr when birthing, for example).

Maybe it's just an extreme case of Stockholm syndrome?

My God...that's it! All animals just have extreme cases of Stockholm syndrome!

PETS OF THE WORLD! The humans are not your friends! Throw off the lease of oppression and pee on their carpet to show your dissatisfaction! Wait...they can't understand this text, can they?

The humans won't let them learn! You guys are basically the monarchs keeping the serfs down and not allowing them learn so that they can know how badly their treated! It's just a vicious cycle of oppression!

 

[JoJo]

Animals really, really like being pets. They love being it. Domestic animals =/= humans.

Not to pick on you in particular but I was anticipating this point coming up and I have to ask: how do you know they like being a pet? It's not like they can tell you in words and as a university biology student I can tell you that body language isn't universal across species, for examples chimps "smile" when they're angry.

Have you had a pet?

You can easily tell what they like/dislike, when they're happy/sad etc...

When chimps smile angrily the rest of their body language shows they're pissed.
Dogs especially, are very emotive. The reaction of getting treats is the same as me coming home, or patting and playing with them. If you've had a pet, and you had trouble telling if it was happy or not, I'm not sure you should have one.

I had goldfish when I was a little kid and as far as I can recall they had just two body language signals: alive and dead ;-)

But I have friends and grandparents with dogs and cats and I've seen the owners often ascribe emotions or thoughts that are clearly too complex for that sort of animal onto their pet, so I suspect that often what an owner reads as "happy" is actually "give me more food / water / toys" etc or something different entirely. Stockholm syndrome is a thing too, aside from the joking quip by Tippy above me, perhaps your pets don't realise how happy they'd be in the wild with their own species?

 

[Schadrach]

EDIT: As far as how the animals feel about it look at this cat:

Does this cat look sad to you?

He doesn't look particularly happy to me. While the face suggests smiling, cats don't do that. He looks like he was caught at one end of a meow, with the partially open mouth. He's not angry, since the posture and the ears don't suggest it, so he's probably trying to ask for something. He definitely expects the camera holder (or someone behind them) to respond.

This goes back to the whole body language thing -- while animal body language =/= human body language, they aren't that hard to understand if you are paying attention to their more expressive parts.

 

[Psykoma]

Hmm, i suppose you kind of have a point. I'm sure many cats would rather live in their natural way rather than be declawed and neutered. I know i'll get people saying "oh but they're well fed and safe and loved etc" but is that really worth it? Humans have evolved to live a life of indoor safety and pre-packaged food, why should we enforce that on animals?

I'm pretty sure cats don't like being declawed either, which is why I didn't have that done to my cat.

But neutered, have you ever seen a female cat in heat? It is not even a remotely pleasurable experience for them.

Not to pick on you in particular but I was anticipating this point coming up and I have to ask: how do you know they like being a pet? It's not like they can tell you in words and as a university biology student I can tell you that body language isn't universal across species, for examples chimps "smile" when they're angry.

Maybe by not looking at individual characteristics and read into their overall behavior. A chimp may smile when angry, but I'm pretty sure they're probably doing other things as well that makes their anger very apparent.

 

[bojackx]

If it shows no remorse or distress after being taken away from its parents, then there's no problem. Dogs and cats aren't like us, they wouldn't miss their parents and this way they get food, water and shelter without even trying. Where's the immorality in that?

 

[JoJo]

Not to pick on you in particular but I was anticipating this point coming up and I have to ask: how do you know they like being a pet? It's not like they can tell you in words and as a university biology student I can tell you that body language isn't universal across species, for examples chimps "smile" when they're angry.

Maybe by not looking at individual characteristics and read into their overall behavior. A chimp may smile when angry, but I'm pretty sure they're probably doing other things as well that makes their anger very apparent.

Anger isn't the only negative emotion. It's not surprising that pets often don't appear to show dislike towards their owners when they're conditioned strongly via rewards and discipline to react in a way their owners desire. What's interesting is the similarity between many of the arguments on this thread and the arguments made by slave owners several centuries before: "they aren't like us", "they have a better life as a...", "they couldn't survive on their own".