Is it selfish to prevent people from commiting suicide?

[BloatedGuppy]

One of my friends committed suicide a month ago. He was one of the happiest and nicest people I have known in my entire life and in the time leading up to the incident he had everything in the world to look forward to. He also had clinical depression.

Do you think he was an idiot?

There's more than one way to define idiot.

An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.

Clinical depressions do not last forever. So yes, committing suicide because of a clinical depression can be seen as high self-defeating and counterproductive. Why wasn't your friend treated for his depression sooner? Was it just left to rage uncontrolled? His death seems like a horrible, senseless and preventable tragedy.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

One of my friends committed suicide a month ago. He was one of the happiest and nicest people I have known in my entire life and in the time leading up to the incident he had everything in the world to look forward to. He also had clinical depression.

Do you think he was an idiot?

Yes, I do. It was all just darwinism in action there.

EDIT: And yes, I would reason the exact same way if it was MY friend who did the same thing. Or my mother, sister, brother, whatever.

I'll move fucking mountains and go through fire if I have to, to help family and friends with their problems when they actually have a genuine will to live and get plagued by problems. But suicide or the threat of suicide is the ultimate dealbreaker, and I'll never mourn or even try to stop them if they turn to suicide.

 

[Mandalore_15]

Yes it's selfish, and a complete waste of time.

Spend your time on people who genuinely WANT to live. Not the idiots who think life is worth ending because they feel a bit grumpy. They are unworthy of the life they have, and the sooner they kill themselves, the better.

And yes, I would in fact reason the exact same way even if it was a friend, family member or other form of loved one threatening to commit suicide. In fact, there have been times when that was exactly the case and my only response was a cold and to-the-point: "Well then go ahead and stop TALKING about it!"

The fact that you take the issue so lightly and condemn people who are suicidal clearly shows you know nothing about mental health problems. Suicidal thoughts are usually caused by clinical depression, a mental illness caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. There is no fundamental difference between this and cancer. Unless, you think we should just let people with cancer die too?

 

[Mandalore_15]

The fact that you take the issue so lightly and condemn people who are suicidal clearly shows you know nothing about mental health problems.

My grades in subjects like psychology, as well as my experiences with both friends and loved ones who've gone through mental health problems, as well as my own contact with the psychiatric movement (although I didn't really have any mental health problems myself, I just had trouble sleeping but I had to go to psychiatric evaluation anyway in order to explore all possible avenues which might've caused my sleeping disorder) combined with countless hours of autodidactic studies and personal interest in psychology, mental health problems and how the human brain works BEGS TO FUCKING DIFFER.

Just because you might dislike my opinions and "ruthlessness", it doesn't mean that I know "nothing" of mental health problems.

So I'd suggest you increase the quality of your arguments and cease making statements about things you don't know shit about (yeah, I doubt you even knew how much I've studied and come into contact with the subject since you just made a false statement about it), if you wish to be taken seriously or even acknowledged.

Your "grades in subjects like psychology". So, what, you've studied/are studying it in high school? I guess that must make you a world fucking expert on the issue. Nevermind the whole host of psychiatric literature and medical practice dedicated to depression, surely you must know better.

And just where have you been doing this private study exactly? I want some sources please (oh god, please don't be fucking forums)... Oh, and I'm sure your one bad experience with a psychiatrist is enough to condemn the whole profession and area of study. That's completely rational! Still, I can tell from your use of language that you're from America, so I guess your clown shoes medical system maybe has something to do with that.

You're right about one thing though: I don't really know anything about you. I can tell from the quality of your posts though that something has happened to you to make you feel this strongly about depression. The other thing I can tell? Wherever you've been doing your research isn't worth the paper/bandwith it's using up. Your posts reek of uninformed bullshit.

Suicidal thoughts are usually caused by clinical depression, a mental illness caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. There is no fundamental difference between this and cancer. Unless, you think we should just let people with cancer die too?

I hate repeating myself, so im going to ask you to read my earlier posts about the controversy over so called "clinical depression" and how much of an "actual illness" that it is.

If you feel that you don't have the interest or need to do that, then consider yourself ignored.

I've take a look over your previous posts. Not one of them is even remotely convincing. Your notion that "happiness" is a chemical imbalance in the brain is simply laughable. Emotions like happiness and sadness are affected by chemical balances, but normal emotions like this occur withing an acceptable range of chemical balance variation that is considered a normal and healthy brain. If certain chemical levels (e.g. seratonin) drop below a certain threshold for a certain period of time however, this is called depression. The brain gets stuck in a low seratonin state that is a physical illness not simply relating to your state of mind. Such a state is not caused purely by how you "feel", but a large number of factors. The huge amount of genetic research to back findings like this up would suggest that there is much more to it than you will admit.

 

[drummond13]

This "choice" is often made under very negative conditions. If someone really wants to kill themselves, that's one thing. But if someone only makes this choice because of crippling depression (which they may very well be able to shake given time and treatment) then preventing them from making this choice is helpful, not selfish.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Your "grades in subjects like psychology". So, what, you've studied/are studying it in high school? I guess that must make you a world fucking expert on the issue. Nevermind the whole host of psychiatric literature and medical practice dedicated to depression, surely you must know better.

And just where have you been doing this private study exactly? I want some sources please (oh god, please don't be fucking forums)... Oh, and I'm sure your one bad experience with a psychiatrist is enough to condemn the whole profession and area of study. That's completely rational!

That wasn't the issue, you said I knew "NOTHING" about the subject matter, and it was clearly a false statement on your part.

As to the exact nature of what "level" im on in these studies: let's just say that I know enough that there is an ongoing controversy in the subject of psychology, and that not all leading neurobiologists and psychologists out there are in "agreement" over everything, including the causes and exact nature of depressions and if it's an "illness" or not.

If you read up on the subject yourself you'd know that.

Still, I can tell from your use of language that you're from America, so I guess your clown shoes medical system maybe has something to do with that.

Haha! Boy, you're really a lousy judge of character aren't you?

First you make the false statement that I supposedly knew "nothing" of mental illnesses (despite the fact that I've studied the subject for years).

And now "you can tell" that im from America? (which im not, im scandinavian and I'd never set my foot on American soil even if I got an invitation and promise of a reward for taking a trip over there)

Are you going to humiliate yourself further with baseless assumptions about me as a person? If so you can count me out of any further discussion with you.

How about you just STOP wasting time trying to figure out "why" I have the opinions and views that I have, and actually focusing on confornting the views and opinions themselves instead? It would be overall more relevant after all.

You're right about one thing though: I don't really know anything about you. I can tell from the quality of your posts though that something has happened to you to make you feel this strongly about depression. The other thing I can tell? Wherever you've been doing your research isn't worth the paper/bandwith it's using up. Your posts reek of uninformed bullshit.

Well considering your "track record" in how "accurate" your guesses and assumptions about me have been so far, im sure you'll forgive me if I don't ascribe much value to that assesment of yours.

I've take a look over your previous posts. Not one of them is even remotely convincing. Your notion that "happiness" is a chemical imbalance in the brain is simply laughable. Emotions like happiness and sadness are affected by chemical balances, but normal emotions like this occur withing an acceptable range of chemical balance variation that is considered a normal and healthy brain. If certain chemical levels (e.g. seratonin) drop below a certain threshold for a certain period of time however, this is called depression. The brain gets stuck in a low seratonin state that is a physical illness not simply relating to your state of mind. Such a state is not caused purely by how you "feel", but a large number of factors. The huge amount of genetic research to back findings like this up would suggest that there is much more to it than you will admit.

Well they probably don't seem convincing to you because it's me writing it. Like I said, check up on the subject and learn about the controversies in the academic world concerning arbitrary labels of "illnesses" and how they change and shift over the years, and then you MIGHT just learn the fact that calling a depression an "illness" isn't as simple and clear-cut as you'd like to think.

 

[Mandalore_15]

That wasn't the issue, you said I knew "NOTHING" about the subject matter, and it was clearly a false statement on your part.

As to the exact nature of what "level" im on in these studies: let's just say that I know enough that there is an ongoing controversy in the subject of psychology, and that not all leading neurobiologists and psychologists out there are in "agreement" over everything, including the causes and exact nature of depressions and if it's an "illness" or not.

If you read up on the subject yourself you'd know that.

Oh right, so you're a pedant as well. First off, of course psychiatrists aren't in agreement on everything. Can you tell me one area of science where all scientists are? However, what is pretty commonly accepted (and by that I mean 99% of medical professionals) is that depression is a discernible illness with discernible triggers, effects and treatments.

As for doing my own research, I can assure you I have. Considerably. Enough to get a first-class degree qualification in mental health law, and a voluntary position working with patients in mental hospitals, at least. I think that classifies me as knowing what I'm talking about.

Haha! Boy, you're really a lousy judge of character aren't you?

First you make the false statement that I supposedly knew "nothing" of mental illnesses (despite the fact that I've studied the subject for years).

And now "you can tell" that im from America? (which im not, im scandinavian and I'd never set my foot on American soil even if I got an invitation and promise of a reward for taking a trip over there)

Are you going to humiliate yourself further with baseless assumptions about me as a person? If so you can count me out of any further discussion with you.

How about you just STOP wasting time trying to figure out "why" I have the opinions and views that I have, and actually focusing on confornting the views and opinions themselves instead? It would be overall more relevant after all.

If you're not from America, learn how to write in real English.

As for confronting your opinions, there's only so much you can say against baseless nonsense, and I'm doing my best.

Well considering your "track record" in how "accurate" your guesses and assumptions about me have been so far, im sure you'll forgive me if I don't ascribe much value to that assesment of yours.

So you're going to ignore credible evidence because of mistaken assumptions about you, despite the fact that the two are entirely separate parts of the argument? Way to debate! *eyeroll*

Well they probably don't seem convincing to you because it's me writing it. Like I said, check up on the subject and learn about the controversies in the academic world concerning arbitrary labels of "illnesses" and how they change and shift over the years, and then you MIGHT just learn the fact that calling a depression an "illness" isn't as simple and clear-cut as you'd like to think.

I've done my reading, and I'm pretty sure there are no credible sources to back up any of your statements. First of all, your comments on happiness and the normal range of human emotion are just plain wrong, something which you failed to address in your response. Secondly, there is no serious academic debate about whether depression exists. Doctors know all they need to know about its existence from fucking decades of successful diagnosis and treatment. Yes, there are major controversies in mental health diagnosis (such as for schizophrenia), but almost none of them relate to depression.

 

[Bas Smeets]

Edit: Never mind. I've learned I should stay away from discussions about suicide and depression as it brings me in an unhealthy state of mind.

 

[A Raging Emo]

I find suicide is another word for cowardice, so, no I don't think trying to stop it is selfish; I think the person trying to commit suicide is the selfish one.

Suicide isn't cowardly, but I'll tell you what is.

The people who have driven a person to the point where they want to end their own lives. Those people are cowardly.

 

[Dinosaur_Face]

IMO it's kind of selfish to prevent them from commiting suicide,sure they might appreciate it afterwards but that doesn't make t less selfish, most of the time you prevent people from killing themselves(luckily that doesn't happen often.) it's probably because of that YOU don't want them to die,which gives the vibes of something like this "i want you to live,i don't care that you're in pain and want to end the suffering,as long as you live then it's good for me"
tl;dr its just as selfish to not accept that somebody who suffers wants to die.

 

[Project_Omega]

So me and this guy were talking today at work and the topic of suicide came up ( because someone decided to jump in front of his train which made him get to work late). One line he said kind of distrubed me he said : " I have nothing against suicide , but don't piss people off while doing it ".

Shocked by this comment i asked him what he meant by the fact he has nothing against suicide, because it was the first time i heard anyone say something like that, usually people want to prevent suicide and think it's a terrible act.

He explained to me that he thought that any person living should have the right to take their own life. That anyone that tries to prevent someone for doing the act is selfish . He said that in a world where countless people are murdered or that die by "accident" why shouldn't someone be able to take his/her own life? That people often talk about the family memebers and friends of the person that commited suicide , and how they are sad and heart-broken and wish that said person did not go through with it. That stopping someone from suiciding because themselves or family/friends would be hurting is selfish by not considering the fact they the person who died , wanted to in fact die , thus commited suicide.

As strange as it might sound, his argument made sense ! I mean, who better than onself to decide when and how to die ? The guy i was talking to firmly believe in the freedom of choice, no matter what choice it may be, therefore he believes that someone should be able to take their own life regardless are what people close to them think .

So what do you escapists think ? Is preventing or trying to find help for someone that wants to commiting suicide, selfish ?

P.S I'm not talking about assisted suicide , that another topic all together.

EDIT : Some people mis-understood my question. It's not about if suicide is right or wrong. It's about if it's selfish of prevent someone for killing themselves. It's basically like taking away their freedom of choice. The choice to end their own life. And also i am NOT talking about helping someone with a terminal illness kill themselves.

You shouldn't take away a choice from someone forcefully, even if it would save their life.

You advise them, inform and enlighten the rest has to be done be the actual person.

Choice may seem bad to you, but you should never force someone to do what YOU would do.

 

[badgersprite]

No, it's not selfish to prevent people from committing suicide, because, generally speaking, life gets better. Nearly everyone who has attempted suicide has been grateful that they failed, because the circumstances in which they wanted to end their life changed, and good things happened to them afterward that wouldn't have happened if they'd died.

Euthanasia for terminally ill patients is a completely different kettle of fish, of course, but when you're talking about young people, people with mental illnesses, or other people who attempt suicide, how is it anything other than a kindness to reach out to them and let them know people care whether they live or die and try to help them through their problems in a different way? That's called compassion, last time I checked.

I don't think suicide is selfish either, though. I just think that's the wrong way to think about the issue entirely.

 

[Acier]

Well, I don't know really. I've actually done this before. And not in the "they were talking about it but I convinced them otherwise way". It was the "I walked on the in he seconds they were about to do it" way.


And, tbh in my particular situation, it was a gut reaction. I didn't think "Man, I'd be upset if he was gone, I gotta stop him." or "how will people react". I just sort of stopped it. I didn't think about if I was doing it for me or for him. And to be honest, he seemed pretty upset about it at that moment, but later he called me from the mental hospital thanking me for doing it. So in that specific situation, it worked out for the best. Too bad it's anecdotal though

I've skimmed through the thread and saw some people saying that people who prevent suicide are selfish because they do it for a "warm fuzzy feeling". I can assure you, it is the opposite of warm and fuzzy, you don't feel good after it's happened, at all. Maybe my situation is a bit more extreme and that affects it a bit. But it's more mentally exhausting than and ego boost as some people think

 

[WiwuX]

Eh... as someone who has gone through depression I'm quite happy that the people around me didn't see it as "selfish" to get involved. A lot of people who are suicidal are so because of mental issues. These are people who need help, and should not simply be "allowed to do whatever". It's hard for someone who's never been through something similar to imagine what mental illness is like, but let me tell you that anyone who has been is very happy that they didn't kill themselves during that time in their life.

A lot of people in his thread seem quite keen to judge people who have gone through situations they never have been in. You don't know what they go through, and until you do, it's very easy to go around calling them "idiots" or "weak".

 

[Ganellone]

Yes. That is the simple direct answer. Yes because you would be stopping them for your own wants, with no regards to what they might want.

I would also like to say, there are a amazing number of obtuse people replying to this thread. We don't care about your personal views on the morality of suicide. The question that was asked was is it selfish, that was it.

There are also those that seemed to not understand the question, and were instead replying about how selfish it is to commit suicide. This is not the point. Yes, it is selfish for someone to kill themselves, they focus on their own wants with indifference to the wants of others. But it is no more selfish than trying to stop someone from committing suicide, because in that choice, you not only choose your wants over that of another, but you actively choose for them to be in pain.