Link was invented in 1986. Leaving him as he is would date him as a relic. But making him a character now would be a betrayal of the series' core roots and open the door for ludicrous possibilities.
Is Link a character?
- Thread starter Hades
- Start date
From an aesthetic/art design sense, I'd be way more jazzed about a gender-swapped Ganondorf than a gender-swapped Link or Zelda. Being as androgynous as Link already is depicted, there's comparatively little room for artistic creativity in that gender swap, and I doubt more than a handful of designers would do a gender-swapped Zelda justice. Gender-swapping Ganon, on the other hand, has all kinds of cool possibilities for redesign.Smilomaniac said:
While I agree completely with the OP's notion that Link is a character (just because he's a silent protagonist doesn't change this), I disagree with the notion that allowing a gender choice would be a disservice to that character. Considering the Legend of Zelda "timeline" basically incorporates a small flavor of the Multiverse theory, there's in-canon justification for Link popping up as a Girl in (at least) one adventure. As such, I'd have absolutely nothing wrong with getting to choose between Link and Linkle (or whatever the name of FemLink from Hyrule Warriors is 
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From the Hyrule Historia: "The heroes of these chronicles all share the name Link. These Links might have been the same person, a series of familial descendants, or a number of heroes with different names entirely. The Links of certain eras may also have been named after the legendary hero." I think that contradicts your view on the series.CaptainMarvelous said:
All the Links are certainly not the same person. There's at least 8 individuals who are different 'Links' in a chain of heroism that goes back through the ages.CaptainMarvelous said:
As I recall (In order of release, not in universe)...
Link '1' - Zelda (NES), Zelda II (NES)
Link '2' - A Link to the Past (SNES), Link's Awakening (GB)
Link '3' - Ocarina of Time (N64), Majora's Mask (N64)
Link '4' - Wind Waker (GC), Phantom Hour Glass (DS)
Link '5' - Twilight Princess (Wii)
Link '6' - Skyward Sword (Wii)
Link '7' - Spirit Tracks (DS)
Link '8' - A Link Between Worlds (3DS)
Link '?' - Oracle of Ages (GBC), Oracle of Seasons (GBC), Minish Cap (GBA)
This is from the people who made the game, mind you. Not only are all the Links separated by defined generations, but there's also at least two alternate dimensions where the games take place, the dimension split happening after Ocarina of Time, leading into Majora's mask->Twilight Princess and Wind Waker->Phantom Hour Glass.
Zelda's 'canon' is bizarre, poorly defined, and obviously set up as to allow the developers to do whatever the hell they want, so it's best ignored most of the time. But it is there.
Just because someone doesn't speak, does not mean they don't think.
Link is the embodiment of courage, not just in the sense of fearlessness, but righteousness as well, he stands for what he believes no matter the consequences, protects the weak and fights evil, and enjoys doing it.
Many different personality traits can be discerned from one's actions, and link has always been determined, generous and optimistic as a character, and this plays into the theme of the game, The triforce.
As we all know, there is courage, wisdom and power.
Courage we have already covered with link, which represents the drive for positive change.
Wisdom is represented by Zelda, who is often calm, calculating and intelligent, she represents responsibility and introspection, always thinking ahead before she takes action, the ability to know how to bring positive change about.
Power is represented by Ganon, who is an evil, pig headed bastard that is out for either his own gain, or the destruction of another, abusing divine triforce power he was given in reckless abandon, because he is not tempered by wisdom, nor does her act with courage.
Now you may be asking, "How does that relate to the OP?", well, to put your own safety before others and face down an identified foe has always been seen as a very masculine thing to do, in a sense, Link shows what it means to be "a good man", courageous and fair, with ganondorf functioning as a counter example of being a "bad man", who is conceited and abusive.
With some variations between titles, Link has always had some clear characteristics throughout, but these aren't focused on (nor do they have to be) because he has very little internal struggles, his goal is clear and his motivations are just, all he requires now is the wisdom of how to go about it.
It's a Japanese game, but even so, archetypal heroes have mostly been male to serve as a good example for boys, to do good and make the world a better place, making the protagonist in such a tale feels like a natural fit.
"Why not make the game about Zelda?"
Because that would require her to have two triforce pieces, making it a very short game, or forego her wisdom piece, after all, it is courage that takes the initiative to act out against evil directly.
I will say that making Zelda into a silent protagonist and link into an important NPC would make a fun experiment, though, wonder how they would characterize him...
Link is the embodiment of courage, not just in the sense of fearlessness, but righteousness as well, he stands for what he believes no matter the consequences, protects the weak and fights evil, and enjoys doing it.
Many different personality traits can be discerned from one's actions, and link has always been determined, generous and optimistic as a character, and this plays into the theme of the game, The triforce.
As we all know, there is courage, wisdom and power.
Courage we have already covered with link, which represents the drive for positive change.
Wisdom is represented by Zelda, who is often calm, calculating and intelligent, she represents responsibility and introspection, always thinking ahead before she takes action, the ability to know how to bring positive change about.
Power is represented by Ganon, who is an evil, pig headed bastard that is out for either his own gain, or the destruction of another, abusing divine triforce power he was given in reckless abandon, because he is not tempered by wisdom, nor does her act with courage.
Now you may be asking, "How does that relate to the OP?", well, to put your own safety before others and face down an identified foe has always been seen as a very masculine thing to do, in a sense, Link shows what it means to be "a good man", courageous and fair, with ganondorf functioning as a counter example of being a "bad man", who is conceited and abusive.
With some variations between titles, Link has always had some clear characteristics throughout, but these aren't focused on (nor do they have to be) because he has very little internal struggles, his goal is clear and his motivations are just, all he requires now is the wisdom of how to go about it.
It's a Japanese game, but even so, archetypal heroes have mostly been male to serve as a good example for boys, to do good and make the world a better place, making the protagonist in such a tale feels like a natural fit.
"Why not make the game about Zelda?"
Because that would require her to have two triforce pieces, making it a very short game, or forego her wisdom piece, after all, it is courage that takes the initiative to act out against evil directly.
I will say that making Zelda into a silent protagonist and link into an important NPC would make a fun experiment, though, wonder how they would characterize him...
If Peach can get her own game, why not Zelda, 'eyRedryhno said:
I disagree with your point though. Zelda may know whats going on but her side of the story is incredibly boring compared to Links. The dungeon crawling and boss challenges are the largest events and what I can only see as the most important objectives for reaching and beating Ganon, as well as saving others on the way.
I have to take issue with that, Twilight Princess Link shows emotion and sneaks a cheeky look at Telma's cleavage (which we may choose to take as short-hand expression of his sex and age).Casual Shinji said:
Most of what he does show can easily be transported between genders but maybe that last thing may throw up a different context to some people. But I'm generally ok with the idea.
That's highly questionable. His appearance changes quite a bit, even without invoking technical limitations.CaptainMarvelous said:
(For one thing, it has also changed in the complementary artwork of various games)
And while timeline theories for the games are always pretty fuzzy, there are a few known facts about various incarnations.
The link in Zelda 1 and 2 are the same person.
The link in 'A link to the past' is also the same person as the one in 'Link's awakening'.
Similarly, Majora's mask is a continuation of at least one of the Ocarina of time timelines.
Meanwhile, Wind Waker almost references OOT, and implies some things about the nature of the new Link.
And reincarnation doesn't imply you are the same person each time by any sense of your physical nature.
In fact, most notions of reincarnation imply quite the opposite.
While it is the same spirit in each case, the body can vary dramatically. Male, female, different physical appearance, different race, even different species, this is considered to be the case most of the time when it comes to reincarnation as a concept.
Bringing someone back exactly as they were is not usually considered reincarnation.
On that note, the plot in most Zelda games implies the following about the characters:
Link is a reincarnation of the spirit of the original hero.
Zelda seems to have a hereditary link to older incarnations of herself as well.
Ganon is more often than not represented as explicitly the same person.
Not the same spirit, not a reincarnation, but literally the exact same person.
We see in OOT (Ocarina of Time) there is no ending in which he dies. Rather, he is cast into the void.
A link to the past references a prior event (which, incidentally, allowing for the vagueness of legends passed on over many centuries, resembles the plot of OOT), and Ganon in that game has been sealed away in the Golden realm/Dark world since whatever time the opening sequence is referencing.
(Though it references OOT logically, clearly due to the order in which the games were made, it is OOT which references a Link to the past's backstory. But the consequence is about the same either way.)
In wind waker, he again escapes from somewhere where he had been imprisoned for quite some time (again, apparently referencing the OOT ending)
In Twilight princess Again, we see Ganon has been imprisoned/disabled for quite some time, and there is reference to a prior event in which he was defeated, but not killed.
Anyway, nothing about reincarnation as a concept, nor link's case in particular implies anything about the form a reincarnated spirit should take.
That's not how reincarnation works, by and large.
That he doesn't remember anything from prior incarnations would also tend to support this.
Not to mention that Twilight princess presents the rather interesting situation where the undead character that teaches the Link of that game several sword techniques - the hero's shade - would seem to be a prior incarnation of Link, based on the available evidence.
Of course, this creates a bunch of logistical problems for any theory that explicitly connects all the links together as being 'the same person' in any shape or form.
Because, while an undead link might not be alive, you would think he still has his spirit, since that's kind of implied by being undead without having turned into a mindless zombie.
And if that's the case, how can the Hero's shade still have Link's spirit, while teaching a new Link how to fight?
It would mean they share the same spirit, at the same time...
Ragardless, Legend of Zelda mythology is so ambiguous that you can't draw definitive conclusions about it.
And that in and of itself negates your point, because you are assuming certainty where there is none.
Think I mis-spoke; I don't mean the literal same person as in Link loses and gains years as appropriate; I mean that each re-incarnation is "Link", not just the same name but the same person re-incarnated in near enough the same form. Effectively mystic cloning depending on what Hyrule needs at the time.AccursedTheory said:
Yes, Link is a character.
And he seems to keep on reincarnating.
There's nothing wrong with reincarnating as a girl. It's still the same character.
In fact, if I knew I'd reincarnate as a girl in my next life...
And he seems to keep on reincarnating.
There's nothing wrong with reincarnating as a girl. It's still the same character.
In fact, if I knew I'd reincarnate as a girl in my next life...
This is the problem though; you're right. If it was just the spirit of the Hero re-incarnating then the appearance would change each time. But it doesn't, Link is near always the same face with blond hair and ears. Changes in art style aside, he looks nearly identical each time around which isn't a reincarnated spirit it's the same dude in a different time period.CrystalShadow said:
If we take Skyward Sword as canon this is either a "past life" teaching you things you know deal or its not one of the Links. Cos like you say, shit dont add up.
All I'm saying is the "Link could be a girl cos reincarnation" theory doesn't hold up because every time he re-incarnates Link looks near exactly the same. Linkle not withstanding, idk what her deal is.
I can only remember him really having a personality in Wind Waker and a tiny bit in Majora's Mask.
Of course a case can be made to introduce some kind of break in that cycle and work with that. I wouldn't know how but if Nintendo could pull that off, if they even wanted to which I doubt, I'd be real curious about it.
To be fair, Link is more of a...role. It's a mantle someone dons to save the world. Sort of like what happened with Thor apparently, in the new comics with that woman becoming Thor. "Link" works the same way only it's some kind of reincarnation and not a title bestowed after the fact. So it'd make sense for a girl Link to follow the conventions of the Hero of Time. It gives us that feeling of continuation the series is known for, that it's a cyclical universe.AccursedTheory said:
Of course a case can be made to introduce some kind of break in that cycle and work with that. I wouldn't know how but if Nintendo could pull that off, if they even wanted to which I doubt, I'd be real curious about it.
The definition of a character is evidently a person in a novel, play, or movie. While I think this is a heavily flawed definition, we'll accept it. In that sense, sure, Link is a character. He's a character in the sense that he's technically a living thing that exists in a fictional work. That said, if he is a character, he's incredibly shallow. What are his goals, hopes, and dreams? What does he want out of life? What are his deeply held beliefs? We know nothing about him. We assume he wants to protect innocent people, since he saves Zelda, and that he's brave, since he has a shard of the tri-force and routinely faces danger.
This isn't much to go on. In storytelling, we have flat characters and round characters. Flat characters tend to remain the same throughout the story. Round characters change over the course of the narrative. To my knowledge, Link never really changes as a person. He rarely even changes between games. The only growth he really experiences is physical. He can't really experience a deep growth of character when we he barely has any character to begin with. We can use the Mr. Plinkett test here, I think. Describe Link without saying what he looks like, what costume he wears, or what his proffesion or role in the game is. Describe him as if your friends have never heard of Legend of Zelda. What are we left with? He's brave? Strong? He may or may not love a beautiful woman? There's really nothing there to analyze in terms of character. And you know what? That's completely fine.
Because Nintendo is right. Link was always a player avatar. While the Zelda games have sometimes had beatiful art, or dealt with complex themes, the point was always about introducing these ideas to the player. It was never about who Link is, or how the world changes him as a person.
This isn't much to go on. In storytelling, we have flat characters and round characters. Flat characters tend to remain the same throughout the story. Round characters change over the course of the narrative. To my knowledge, Link never really changes as a person. He rarely even changes between games. The only growth he really experiences is physical. He can't really experience a deep growth of character when we he barely has any character to begin with. We can use the Mr. Plinkett test here, I think. Describe Link without saying what he looks like, what costume he wears, or what his proffesion or role in the game is. Describe him as if your friends have never heard of Legend of Zelda. What are we left with? He's brave? Strong? He may or may not love a beautiful woman? There's really nothing there to analyze in terms of character. And you know what? That's completely fine.
Because Nintendo is right. Link was always a player avatar. While the Zelda games have sometimes had beatiful art, or dealt with complex themes, the point was always about introducing these ideas to the player. It was never about who Link is, or how the world changes him as a person.
Why is it so bad to be a player avatar? I don't really consider this a negative. I think Zelda tends to be more about theme then plot or character. OOT is about growing up. Majora's Mask is about death and grief. These are still interesting works of art with a lot of thought put into them. They just don't have a complex protagonist. It's more about how the player chooses to interact with the world. I think that's a unique form of art that only games are capable of. Some would say it's one of the purest forms of art.Hades said:
Think back though, outside of the originals, she's often getting shit done. Twilight Princess is the most recent where she seemingly does nothing, but even then there's a huge amount of backstory of her gathering the Hylians for a war with the Twili, and being pushed back and being forced to give up otherwise everyone dies. And she stayed there in Hyrule Castle, just imagine the mental fortitude she's got to have to be able to just sit there and do nothing and still coming back and saving your ass when Ganon comes back essentially. And hell, even then, without Rusl and the Hyrule Liberation Front, Link would have pretty much no idea of what he's doing.Nazulu said:If Peach can get her own game, why not Zelda, 'eyRedryhno said:
I disagree with your point though. Zelda may know whats going on but her side of the story is incredibly boring compared to Links. The dungeon crawling and boss challenges are the largest events and what I can only see as the most important objectives for reaching and beating Ganon, as well as saving others on the way.
Skyward Sword(the one in the series I hate the most and the only one I couldn't bring myself to finish), she's doing a helluva lot to get you where you're going.
Ocarina everyone knows about Sheik and how much training she had to go through just to pose as one of the Sheikah to become well-known enough to be that recognized.
Wind Waker, she's fucking Tetra, the pirate queen. Her entire crew respects her because she's shown to know what she's doing.
There's alot of room for a game with her and other canon females in MANY iterations in the series. It's just everybody ignores their contributions because they're in the background because you're playing as Link and it's his adventure, not theirs. There's pretty much no conceivable reason other than "I wanna be a girl Link" for a Zelda game to 63 the cast. We've got strong characters that could carry a Zelda universe game as females to begin with. But that's just my opinion.
Thing is, a huge amount of Ganon's backstory is very much dependent on him being a dude. It's why he has the power he starts off with in addition to having the will to hold the Triforce of Power(or is it Strength? I forget). He's a fucking Gerudo MALE. There's only one of those every few generations, and making him a woman takes away exactly how important he is to the tribe.Smilomaniac said:
I don't really think you can claim that. Let's remember the old wisdom (represented as a joke)CaptainMarvelous said:
What you can say for definite is that every reincarnated Link you've been shown so far is the same. That's more accurate. It also doesn't automatically mean that they are all the same, however.
Yes, but that's my point in the first place. The statement 'every time he reincarnates he looks exactly the same' is actually false.CaptainMarvelous said:
This is absolutely true when considering in-game appearance, but since technology is a factor there, a more reliable source is official supporting artwork.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/historyofhyrule/albums/72157629221232021/page4
This is all official artwork related to the very first game.
Sure, you can argue the point, but a large majority of these suggest a character with brown hair.
http://zeldawiki.org/Gallery:Link
Here's more from various games.
Again note the brown hair of early links, and where it is visible at all, green eyes.
Note how later incarnations got progessively more and more blonde, and largely had blue eyes.
(arguably somewhere along the line there was a reddish tinge to things as well)
For good measure, note the radically different appearance of the link from the cartoon series, notably very obviously brown hair. (and a quite different physical build, but again, art style makes that hard to draw any real conclusions from)
Differences in hairstyle, the exact details of the costume, facial features and such also exist, but the nature of the varying art styles used over time make that pretty difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions from.
Sure, it's a minor point, but a single counter-example is all it takes to prove something wrong.
Unless you're going to argue that certain versions of link depicted in official artwork related to the games (And other media he has appeared in) don't count for some reason, your statement that all versions of Link have an identical appearance just isn't true.
Well as he is a silent protagonist, I'd say he is a blank slate and everyone can project their own thoughts into the character of what he is like.
BUT
Then again there is quite a lot we know about him, he usually has a place were he lives and comes from, people you talk to that know him from before say that he helped them out, so he is helpful. He is also usually hard working and as he has the third piece of the tri-force in him, we also know his defining trait is courage. So just out of the top of my head, that can already be a character, can't it?
But if I'd have to answer one or the other, I'd go with blank slate for everyone to create their own image of a hero on to.
BUT
Then again there is quite a lot we know about him, he usually has a place were he lives and comes from, people you talk to that know him from before say that he helped them out, so he is helpful. He is also usually hard working and as he has the third piece of the tri-force in him, we also know his defining trait is courage. So just out of the top of my head, that can already be a character, can't it?
But if I'd have to answer one or the other, I'd go with blank slate for everyone to create their own image of a hero on to.