Is Militarism in Modern Games a Problem?

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MaxwellDB

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razelas said:
Actually the US spends more than the next 14 countries [http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending#WorldMilitarySpending]... the US is neither that crazy nor that rich. Have you ever looked at what that budget funds? According to this recent Congressional Research Service report [http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40764.pdf], "as of March 2011, DOD had more contractor personnel in Afghanistan and Iraq (155,000) than uniformed personnel (145,000)." Private military companies and defense contractors, particularly Xe Services [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xe_Services] have practically become integrated into the US military [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/world/middleeast/24contractors.html?ref=blackwaterusa&pagewanted=1] over the last 7 years. In the last fiscal year the Department of Defense spent nearly $316 billion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_contractor#cite_note-Singer-0] (nearly half out of a budget of $689 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png] on defense contractors. These trends do not indicate militarism but rather war profiteering. And game devs are are fundamentally in the same business since have been they releasing annual modern warfare games based on current conflicts.
Alright, we account for 43% of global military spending. Next comes China, at around 7%. Then, Russia at 3.6%. As a percentage of GDP, we're up there with countries that are heavily nationalistic or exist in difficult/unusual situations. It's still a lot, and it's just bizzare to suggest otherwise because some of that money is spent on private contractors-- that's just the collision of militarism with a right-wing privatization agenda. Militarist attitudes directly impact just how much money and support we throw at war profiteers-- just like they impact how much we throw at the military.

I wasn't conflating the two concepts, as it would be as incorrect as making the mistake you made; thinking that the two are exclusive of each other. Militarism without patriotism is not militarism but warmongering. Of course it's possible to be an anti-militarist patriot, but it is not possible to be an non-patriotic militarist. And this is not the first time that the US has spent a ridiculous amount of money on defense spending. The military-entertainment complex, as you put it, is a fairly new phenomenon and not necessary to militarism.
I never claimed that they were exclusive of each other-- just that the terms weren't interchangeable. I don't think that this is a productive branch of discussion; it's semantic and not incredibly pertinent to the topic. I do think that it's possible to be pragmatically militarist without having any real degree of patriotism-- a land owner, for example, thinking that his current country would protect his property rights better than a potentially invading one, or someone who wants access to cheap oil no matter the cost. These people would not call for war, but they would want their country's national agenda promoted without necessarily caring about anything like national identity.

It's also evident that heavy exposure to militarism can change what's 'normal.' Someone who doesn't think about these things but grows up playing militarist games and watching similarly-themed movies might have not much of an opinion on this stuff, but they also might simply consider it unthinkable to really consider pruning down a currently bloated military.

The military-entertainment complex is older than popular home gaming; it has shaped modern attitudes on the very nature of war and the role of the military. I think that's old enough-- it doesn't change its core just because it slides into a new medium.

I think you don't understand the point I'm making with that ad.

Compare that recruitment ad with this WWII ad [http://www.army.mil/cmh/art/Posters/WWI/I_want_you.jpg] and you'll see how patriotism and morality has become significantly divorced from military service. It's interesting to note the difference in attitude between video games and actual military media.
That ad just really proves how much Ed Bernays changed advertising. It doesn't engage you much at all, does it?

You're adding the word "morality" when before it wasn't an issue. Modern militainment deliberately ignores questions of real morality by emphasizing loyalty to faceless authority and using the stock evil characters (Hey, Russians! Hey, Arabs!) that we've been conditioned to accept since the 80s, especially, as enemies. Military recruitment ads are then afforded the luxury, by and large, of being able to ignore even mentioning any sort of opposing force-- it's just understood that, should you go to war, it'll be against shadowy 'bad guys.' Dave Sirota's "Back to Our Future," Chaplin and Ruby's "Smartbomb," and David Grossman's "On Killing" talk a lot about this stuff.
 

GrizzlerBorno

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Am I personally desensitized by violence in Video games? I think so. I've never stumbled onto the dead body of a close family member in my living room as I walk in, so I can't say for sure..... But I think I wouldn't flip my shit, and start screaming my lungs off until, I pass out from exertion.

Does that make me a horrible putrid example of a human being? Maybe. But I like to think: So WHAT, if I don't scream my lungs out? So what if I get chilled to the bone, but simultaneously shot to the system with adrenaline? So WHAT if I silently pick up the nearest blunt object, track down the intruder, who is still presumably in my house; whack him across the head as HARD as I can and then proceed to literally BASH his brain into the floor for killing my loved one?

Desensitized or not, its more effective than passing out, I'd say.....
 

MaxwellDB

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GrizzlerBorno said:
Am I personally desensitized by violence in Video games? I think so. I've never stumbled onto the dead body of a close family member in my living room as I walk in, so I can't say for sure..... But I think I wouldn't flip my shit, and start screaming my lungs off until, I pass out from exertion.

Does that make me a horrible putrid example of a human being? Maybe. But I like to think: So WHAT, if I don't scream my lungs out? So what if I get chilled to the bone, but simultaneously shot to the system with adrenaline? So WHAT if I silently pick up the nearest blunt object, track down the intruder, who is still presumably in my house; whack him across the head as HARD as I can and then proceed to literally BASH his brain into the floor for killing my loved one?

Desensitized or not, its more effective than passing out, I'd say.....
Do you think that influences how you or others might think about war, though?
 

Brandon237

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Techno Squidgy said:
No, not really. While sometimes I think it would be nice to shoot a certain person, this has nothing to do with video games. More inspired by a couple of books I read, with really detailed executions in them...

I have two main groups of mindsets, gaming and normality. The two sets are mostly non-interchangeable. Certain puzzle solving aspects cross-over, but that's about it.

Games do not manipulate the way I perceive the world to any great effect.
Well said,
You win the thread,
My mind is dead,
This poet should go to bed...

My morality in games and in the real world is very different. I UNDERSTAND that those pixels are meaningless, but human life (to me, arguably to some) is. I am mature enough to not let gaming phase my real-world thought processes and can handle the media I'm given. Fictional media desensitises me to other fictional media, but never the real world. And for a lot of people that ALSO works the other way around. I store and interpret the two worlds differently, s most people do.
 

GrizzlerBorno

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MaxwellDB said:
GrizzlerBorno said:
Am I personally desensitized by violence in Video games? I think so. I've never stumbled onto the dead body of a close family member in my living room as I walk in, so I can't say for sure..... But I think I wouldn't flip my shit, and start screaming my lungs off until, I pass out from exertion.

Does that make me a horrible putrid example of a human being? Maybe. But I like to think: So WHAT, if I don't scream my lungs out? So what if I get chilled to the bone, but simultaneously shot to the system with adrenaline? So WHAT if I silently pick up the nearest blunt object, track down the intruder, who is still presumably in my house; whack him across the head as HARD as I can and then proceed to literally BASH his brain into the floor for killing my loved one?

Desensitized or not, its more effective than passing out, I'd say.....
Do you think that influences how you or others might think about war, though?
Maybe. I mean we are taught by society to think that War is ALWAYS bad, no matter the situation, right? Well I don't agree with that. But I can't honestly tell you if that is because of the media I expose myself to, or a generational thing, or a personal experience thing, or whatever? It might be any or none of those things.
 

Nieroshai

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No. I play games to have fun. I run training sims to prepare for a job and get bored. I've played shooters. I've also ran military and police sim games. Those sims are not the slightest bit fun. The big difference is in fact the realism or lack thereof.
 

fragmaster09

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i like CoD, but i find that since the main protaganistic countries are either the Allied forces, or America and Britain, then it depends, because sure, the WW2 games had a good cause: stopping Hitler, but the more recently set ones (MW/2/3/BlOps) had no reason, seeing as how America is there only because their enemies are invariably Communists or Muslims and Britain is there because if we weren't then America would assume that we had decide to be against them("you're either with me or against me...")and start their racist/politicalist reign of terror against us as well as the Communist/mainly Muslim countries which never seem to have done anything wrong
 

NickCaligo42

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I'd say it is a problem, but only insofar as I'd like to see more variety. Then again, the folks making these games invariably have a great deal of respect and admiration for the military and to expect them to make other kinds of games about other kinds of characters is pretty silly, sort of like expecting Tom Clancy to not write about the CIA or Isaac Asimov not to write about robots.
 

LarenzoAOG

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Apr 28, 2010
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Really......*sigh*.

Wellcome to real fucking life, you've spent the staggering last 2 hours in a simulated world, in case you can't tell the difference we have supplied you with a handbook that will help you figure it out, would you like one, no, are you sure? For fuck's sake.... NOBODY ever wants a handbook.
 

blankedboy

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I can't think about this thread because I'm too curious about OP's avatar. What does it scan as? D: