Is Naruto hated or something?

[Someone Depressing]

I have a friend who is obsessed with Naruto. She says why she dislikes it more recently is because of two things: It's becoming filler in the vague form of an anime, and it's becoming more childish.

 

[GabeZhul]

OT: Frankly put, the series simply has such insane quality-inconsistencies that most people get fed up with it.
I honestly loved the beginning of the series (pre-timeskip). The whole idea of magical ninjas was silly, but once I got over that and learned to simply consider them supersoldiers with a ninja gimmick it all made sense. The Zabuza arc was pretty good, and the following arcs were awesome as well. The series didn't shy away from killing important characters if the plot demanded it, Naruto actually grew and the side-characters were also pretty interesting.

Then Shippuden came along, and everything went to shit. Not all at once, mind you, but it certainly became a very long downwards spiral afterwards. The series was still pretty decent even after the time-skip for a while, but then the four cancers of the series slowly began to rear their ugly heads:

-Sasuke: The guy was interesting pre-timeskip. He was a genius rival who took a dark path for the sake of revenge, and his gimmicks were amusing at this point. Jump to post-timeskip and he turns into a pompous, borderline psychotic asshole who makes decisions at random, his eye-powers make him completely broken to the point where it just becomes ridiculous (in retrospect, he is like a rival NPC from a D&D game, where he would automatically gain power levels for no reason whenever Naruto gets stronger just so that the rivalry wouldn't get out of balance), and worst of all, Kishimoto made entire arcs focus just on him because he was a fangirl favorite!

-Sakura and the stupid love-triangles. This issue had its ups and downs but it mainly boils down to this: Naruto has a crush on Sakura for no apparent reason beside that she is pretty even though she is a useless idiot, Sakura has a crush on Sasuke even though the guy is an unrepentant evil asshole who tried to kill her on more than one occasion, Hinata has a crush on Naruto and keeps holding out for him even though Naruto is an insensitive asshole who refuses to acknowledge her in any way and then there's Rock Lee/Sakura and Ino/Sasuke and the glasses chick who has a crush on Sasuke and the other crushes and whatnot... and let's not even get into the crack fan-pairings!
In short, Kishimoto created this love-dodecahedron or whatever way back in the very beginning of the series and refuses to advance the relationships because shippers are a strong demographic that will keep buying his stuff just so they can see whether their preferred pairing will occur, all the while the actual characters suffer for it both in-story and in the characterization department.

-The goddamn Uchiha clan and their goddamn magical eyeballs, with Sasuke at the helm. The Sharingan are not only completely broken, but they are all over the goddamn place even though the clan was supposed to be dead, yet ALL the biggest villains in the series are either Uchiha or use their eyes/their derivatives often in ways that make no goddamn sense. How the hell does a magical eyeball create a huge magical armor/giant/whatever!? Or turn back time!? Or create alternate spaces and unquenchable fire and yada-yada-yada?!
And if that wasn't enough, the Sharingan became an all-purpose plot-fixing glue. Why is this character so powerful? Sharingan. Where did the rinnegan come from? Sharingan. Why are all the Uchiha evil? Sharingan! Everything in the entire series revolves around the fricking magical eyeballs to the point of utter ridiculousness.

-The anticlimaxes. This became a staple of the series in the past few years in particular and it was the ultimate reason why I stopped following the manga (I only know about the recent development because I listen to the Weekly Manga Recap podcast), namely the end of the Pain/Attack on Konoha arc. The conclusion of that particular arc was such a ridiculous cop-out, especially after the great lead-up, that I completely lost my faith in the series, and as far as I know it never really got any better afterwards.

Also, the flashbacks. I would say half of the last arc was made of flashbacks, which is pretty insane taken that said arc has been running for more than two years...

Add to that the insane number of filler episodes in the anime and how Kishimoto apparently started to give less and less of a damn about his writing and his artwork in particular with each passing year and you can see how so many people are fed up with the series...

 

[Ipsen]

You were 12. Naruto should be cool to you. I was the same. Now that I'm older, I prefer more adult oriented fare.

Also it's over stayed it's welcome. Like a sitcom, animes typically have a shelf life of 2 seasons. Some can stick around longer, but most wear out their welcome and characters by then.

I used to like Cowboy Bebop, but when CN played it's mere 13 episodes over & over again for years on end, it too overstayed it's welcome. There were fans that would piss blood if CN took one of their Toonami shows off, insisting they were the best animes ever. There are thousands of better animes, better dubbed or well-subbed, but they couldn't be assed to leave their seats or even learn to read, with the idea set in their heads that if it was on cable TV in english, it had to be the best Japan had to offer.

I will never ever understand how Hagaren (FMA) & Naruto are more popular than Slayers or classic Hunter x Hunter, or why anyone liked Evangelion.

To give it credit, Bebop is really, really, REALLY rewatchable. I don't blame anime Adult Swim/Toonami's selections, because they generally follow this trend. FMA, FLCL, GITS, Eureka Seven; a bunch of good series that anyone can pick up on are rerun, like good TV should.

They also try to add in new series to keep up with the times...It doesn't always work out. I am glad they do it however, and the properties they bring are always solidly accepted already, yet intriguing and different; Durarara and SAO were a surprise. Don't forget that Adult Swim isn't the biggest name in US anime town; they can't grab ALL of the good anime out there, new or old (especially being a 6 hour block, one day a week, on a channel that normally doesn't display such content).

...I can't stand Slayers. Hardly worth mentioning, but it's nagging to be said.

OT, yea, gotta jump on the 'Naruto is for kids' reason too. I find it intriguing how long it's lasting, though; it kinda shows the effects of tenacity from big-business manga production. I'm imagining Shueisha wanting to reach ANOTHER generation of kids with Naruto.

Naruto holds an interesting concept around fantasizing ninjas, but the character development sucks. Wouldn't be a problem, if it didn't run so damn long. The escalation that shounen manga/anime rely on doesn't feel anywhere near 'epic' at this point (as much as they'd make it out to be), since the concept is played out, and the characters are paper-dimensional. Nothing can reliably change or repair the damage at this point. You'd have to be a 12 year old to have the imagination to make more out of Naruto.

 

[aba1]

Ok so I have to ask are they still on that Ninja war ark cause that whole thing has been going for half a decade now surely it has to have moved on by now?

 

[GabeZhul]

Ok so I have to ask are they still on that Ninja war ark cause that whole thing has been going for half a decade now surely it has to have moved on by now?

Nope, they are still at it, thought at the end.
Also, Sasuke turned good after a flashback, the final villain also turned good after a flashback and a Naruto Friendship Speech (TM) and now they are probably going to fight the very definitely final villain for about five more months (and maybe Sasuke after that for about two more months because the guy things good and evil is like a revolving door and because we naturally need a conclusion for the rivalry).

 

[Mangod]

Personally, I dislike Naruto (specifically Shippuden), for one simple reason; it took a wrong turn down the Idealistic side of the Sliding Scale of Idealism V. Cynicism.

Let's face facts: it's a series wherein our main protagonist and his peers are trained to be contract killers from before age 10. It's set in a world where demons so powerful they were essentially natural disasters roam the countryside. Where businessmen can hire private armies to usurp entire countries. Where entire wars are fought in the shadows, dynasties are assassinated and the people who serve as the jailers of the aforementioned demons, are treated like lepers by the rest of society.

So why, in gentle Jesus, is Narutos dad, Minato, arguing that the genocidal massmurderer who is responsible for the death of himself (he got ressurected), his wife, and the wife of his predecessor, along with the fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and entire families of his allies, AND who tried to murder Naruto when the boy wasn't even a single day old, arguing that Obito, the main villain, should be allowed to live? Because he's been throwing a temper tantrum since his childhood sweetheart died over a decade ago? Orochimaru was condemned as an unrepentant monster, and he seems like a swell guy next to Obito.

I dislike Naruto... because the series was essentially set up to be Berserk-lite, but has defied expectations and gone down Strawberry Shortcake Street.

 

[GabeZhul]

So why, in gentle Jesus, is Narutos dad, Minato, arguing that the genocidal massmurderer who is responsible for the death of himself (he got ressurected), his wife, and the wife of his predecessor, alng with the fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and entire families, AND who tried to murder Naruto when the boy wasn't even a single day old, arguing that Obito, the main villain, should be allowed to live? Because he's been throwing a temper tantrum since his childhood sweetheart died over a decade ago? Orochimaru was condemned as an unrepentant monster, and he seems like a swell guy next to Obito.

Because of Sharingan. Really. It was already established that when a Sharingan user loses someone they love, they start producing eeeeeeeeevil chakra which makes them eeeeeeeeeevil. So it's not Obito's fault he is an obviously evil asshole who wanted to lobotomize the entire planet in a dreamworld because an obviously evil asshole old man told him to. Same deal with Sasuke. None of the evil shit he did was his fault, no sir! It was the eyes and their eeeeeeeeeeevil chakra all along. Makes perfect sense. [/sarcasm]

 

[chaser5000]

Personally, I dislike Naruto (specifically Shippuden), for one simple reason; it took a wrong turn down the Idealistic side of the Sliding Scale of Idealism V. Cynicism.

Let's face facts: it's a series wherein our main protagonist and his peers are trained to be contract killers from before age 10. It's set in a world where demons so powerful they were essentially natural disasters roam the countryside. Where businessmen can hire private armies to usurp entire countries. Where entire wars are fought in the shadows, dynasties are assassinated and the people who serve as the jailers of the aforementioned demons, are treated like lepers by the rest of society.

So why, in gentle Jesus, is Narutos dad, Minato, arguing that the genocidal massmurderer who is responsible for the death of himself (he got ressurected), his wife, and the wife of his predecessor, alng with the fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and entire families, AND who tried to murder Naruto when the boy wasn't even a single day old, arguing that Obito, the main villain, should be allowed to live? Because he's been throwing a temper tantrum since his childhood sweetheart died over a decade ago? Orochimaru was condemned as an unrepentant monster, and he seems like a swell guy next to Obito.

I dislike Naruto... because the series has essentially been set up to be Berserk-lite, but has defied expectations and gone down Strawberry Shortcake Street.

This just makes me think how cool a naruto that stayed with a darker story and more tactical battles would've of been.

 

[Manji187]

The longer something goes on, the greater the probability of it absolutely ruining its initial tone and promise.

Basically by now, no one but the absolutely obsessed give a shit.

Just imagine what Naruto would be, if all the series had was 1 year and 52 episodes. Then it would've worked towards a grand finale (supposedly a justified battle between Naruto and Sasuke, determining the fate of Konoha....with a tailed beasts subplot).

What a shame.

 

[Hochmeister]

I still enjoy it. Started watching ~4yrs ago after I graduated college while playing Civ4 on my second monitor. Read the entire manga a year ago and liked it a lot more than the anime.

There are a lot of reasons people hate it though. For the anime specifically, it practically wrote the book on bad filler. The funny thing is that the filler's even worse now than it used to be; the latest filler arcs arcs are near unwatchable and recently they've taken to randomly inserting filler material into the main plot. The production values also vary wildly, sometimes it looks great, sometimes god awful. And the English dub sucks too. If you do want to watch it I strongly recommend trying to find the cut to manga version.

I suspect that part of the hate comes from snobbery/elitism because it's a weekly shonen. At some point it became "cool" to hate on, and now people jump on the bandwagon.

Then there are former fans who are upset that the story didn't develop the way they wanted; Tobito's a good example of this. Or there are the people who are upset that a particular character they hate (typically Sasuke) hasn't been castrated, lynched, and fed to feral dogs yet, despite the fact that it's not that genre. Or the fans who are so obnoxious they turn others away.

And it doesn't help that the plot's taken a real nosedive in quality in recent years, moreseo in recent months. The formerly reasonable power progression completely jumped the shark, Sasuke can't decide what he wants, Madara sits around doing nothing, and Obito whines about his crush who died 16 years ago. Death's almost as cheap as it was in DBZ, all the villains are redeemed by the magical power of friendship, and the "war" is laughably un-warlike. It's easier to kick something when it's already down.

Despite all that I still enjoy it. It's got some flashy action sequences which aren't just people screaming while powering up. The characters are mostly (with some glaring exceptions) good and memorable if nothing else. And there's the sense that both the heroes and villains are working towards their own goals and not just dicking around. Naruto's definitely not for everyone and certainly has a lot of flaws, but can be entertaining and probably doesn't deserve all of the bashing it gets.

 

[Pixelspeech]

/

This was also a very nice explanation, thanks

I actually forgot there were this many crushes going on all at once ^^

 

[TWRule]

There is a good bit of cheesiness and problems with how the story is composed, paced, and how characters are (under)developed (which could be said of most anime of comprable size). It indulges in many obvious anime tropes too, which can be frustrating.

However, I think it's unfair to dismiss the entire thing as 'for kids' or what not. If you bother to look, there are some very universal messages that appear that aren't necessarily reducible to the superficial tripe you get in most anime/manga. For example, the theme of loneliness is central and powerfully portrayed throughout the series in a way I've rarely seen does as well elsewhere in the anime world while still being accessible to all ages. There's also a particular section of the manga, the one depicting Jiraiya's journey to find a solution to war which serves as a rather profound philosophical metaphor that ties well into the main themes of the series (such as loneliness). It's nothing super groundbreakingly original, but well done nonetheless.

So I guess my answer to your question is that they dismiss it at face value, which is admittedly fairly easy to do, or like others have said, they grow weary of the tropes and the pacing, when really what is worthwhile in the series can be found by cherry-picking a handful of select episodes/manga sections.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

True as that may be, we're seeing more and more forms of entertainment that are made "for kids" become favorites of adults. Could it be something more fundamental?

There is indeed a more fundamental reason that most people don't like the show (and I can only imagine that this has been brought up - probably multiple times - in the 3 pages of this topic). That being simply that it's a shounen series. That is to say, it's one of those "never-ending" anime shows that has like, 300+ episodes. These shows are generally characterized by their horrendously sluggish pacing and their pretty predictable plots. DBZ is pretty much the benchmark for this type of format.

Villain shows up that is the strongest opponent the heroes have ever faced and beats up the good guys. Good guys train/"do something" to become stronger. Good guy's beat the villain. Next villain shows up, so powerful that he makes the previous villain look like a door-to-door girlscout selling cookies. Villain beats up the good guys. Good guys train/"do something" to become stronger. Good guy's beat the villain. Next villain shows up, so powerful that he makes the previous villain look like a soggy cardboard box. Etc. Etc. Etc.

The power of the heroes keeps expanding with each new "saga", and yet somehow "the most dangerous foe in the world!" manages to show up...despite the villain before being described as "the most dangerous foe in the world!" Again, look to DBZ as an example: Raditz show's up and he's ridiculously more powerful than Goku and friends. Goku has to team up with his nemesis Piccolo and together they defeat Raditz. Next come Vegeta and Nappa. These two are so strong they make Raditz look like a lame joke, but Goku's been training with King Kai and therefor he's able to just barely defeat them. Next up are the Ginyu Force who quite make Vegeta look like a sissy. Goku's been training at 100x gravity and is able to wipe the floor with them. Then comes Frieza: the most powerful and feared tyrant in the entire galaxy. He makes the Ginyu Force look as worthless as Raditz. Goku goes SSJ and absolutely humiliates the guy. Then come the Androids. 17 and 18 are able to beat the piss out of SSJ's, meaning that they're actually stronger than Frieza. They get gobbled up by Cell turning him into "The Perfect Being" who's capable of effectively beating the piss out of all the heroes...until Gohan goes SSJ2 at which point he makes Perfect Cell look like a joke. Finally we get Buu, a literally indestructible being of absolute evil. He's so strong he makes every villain that came before him seem as worthless as Krillin. So strong that in his final form he easily stands toe-to-toe with SSJ 3 Goku and in fact has the upper hand since Kid Buu effectively has unlimited stamina and nearly instant recovery. He's so powerful that the only way they're able to defeat him is by calling in a cheat with the Dragon Balls and giving Goku a full-life heal to restore his energy...without that, Kid Buu would have stuffed that spirit bomb right back down Goku's throat.

But do you see the pattern? Baddy shows up, "OMG HE'S THE STRONGEST THERE IS!" Heroes get stronger/"do something" to tip the scales, Baddy gets beaten. Rinse and repeat. Bleach is pretty much the same way, only they've got swords that go SSJ instead of the fighter themselves.

In the end, it's the repetitive nature of shounens that make most people have a distaste for them.

This is all true but at the same time, Jojo's is considered Shounan as are Astro Boy, Fullmetal Alchemist and Death Note. Shounan merely refers to a genre designed to target early teens. In other words, shounens can be good but only if they either know when to end (Fullmetal Alchemist) or still keep on being interesting despite the length (Jojo's)

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I just saw a lot of words that don't make sense, bizarre titles for things, Japanese names and the word "anime". And there's an "anime scene"?

...he came to work with a pussy deflector and started saying "kage bunshin no jutsu" and other jutsu names and making the hand signs.

I genuinely cannot conceive of a single context in which this sentence makes any sense.

Oh, my bad. "Pussy Deflector" is the name my friends and I use to call the forehead protectors that they wear in the show when people are wearing them in public in real life. It's kind of a joke used on some parts of the internet and sometimes I forget where I am while I'm typing.

And "kage bunshin no jutsu" is the Japanese word for "Ninja Art of the Shadow Clone" I suppose would be the best translation I could think of off hand.

Now to be honest... If those headband things came out and had no correlation to the show? They'd look pretty cool.

 

[Flutterguy]

Well, i've never seen it myself but i think you will find the reason why it's not taken very seriously in you own post: You watched it when you were twelve. I think it's widely considered to be for kids and younger teens and too childish for most adults.

Pretty much. Never watched it and always thought it looked like a kids show like Inuyasha. Really bland good vs evil type show from first glance. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[Mangod]

Well, i've never seen it myself but i think you will find the reason why it's not taken very seriously in you own post: You watched it when you were twelve. I think it's widely considered to be for kids and younger teens and too childish for most adults.

Pretty much. Never watched it and always thought it looked like a kids show like Inuyasha. Really bland good vs evil type show from first glance. Maybe I am wrong.

It actually seemed a lot more... nuanced, when it was still just Naruto. Then Shippuden happened, and the show lost its ability to recognize when its villains were beyond redemption, even going so far as to have the main characters dad defend the man who tried to murder the main character when he was less than a day old.

I mean, seriously? Moral Event Horizon: you have crossed it.

 

[GabeZhul]

Well, i've never seen it myself but i think you will find the reason why it's not taken very seriously in you own post: You watched it when you were twelve. I think it's widely considered to be for kids and younger teens and too childish for most adults.

Pretty much. Never watched it and always thought it looked like a kids show like Inuyasha. Really bland good vs evil type show from first glance. Maybe I am wrong.

It actually seemed a lot more... nuanced, when it was still just Naruto. Then Shippuden happened, and the show lost its ability to recognize when its villains were beyond redemption, even going so far as to have the main characters dad defend the man who tried to murder the main character when he was less than a day old.

I mean, seriously? Moral Event Horizon: you have crossed it.

I told you, it's the Sharingan! Obito is redeemable because he only had one eeeeeeeeeeevil-chakra-producing-Sharingan eyeball at the time so he is only half evil! And later they will also befriend Madara as well because his Sharingan turned into Rinnegan and so it does not produce eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil chakra anymore, and thus he can be redeemed too! And then they redeem Sasuke too even though he has both eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil chakra producing eyes because... Kishimoto is a hack writer. It all makes perfect sense. [/sarcasm]

 

[Queen Michael]

Well, i've never seen it myself but i think you will find the reason why it's not taken very seriously in you own post: You watched it when you were twelve. I think it's widely considered to be for kids and younger teens and too childish for most adults.

Pretty much. Never watched it and always thought it looked like a kids show like Inuyasha. Really bland good vs evil type show from first glance. Maybe I am wrong.

It actually seemed a lot more... nuanced, when it was still just Naruto. Then Shippuden happened, and the show lost its ability to recognize when its villains were beyond redemption, even going so far as to have the main characters dad defend the man who tried to murder the main character when he was less than a day old.

I mean, seriously? Moral Event Horizon: you have crossed it.

I told you, it's the Sharingan! Obito is redeemable because he only had one eeeeeeeeeeevil-chakra-producing-Sharingan eyeball at the time so he is only half evil! And later they will also befriend Madara as well because his Sharingan turned into Rinnegan and so it does not produce eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil chakra anymore, and thus he can be redeemed too! And then they redeem Sasuke too even though he has both eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil chakra producing eyes because... Kishimoto is a hack writer. It all makes perfect sense. [/sarcasm]

I remember when my best friend insisted that his characters had depth. I retorted that a character having been sad at some Point in the past does not equal depth.

Yeah, a terrible writer.

 

[Mangod]

I told you, it's the Sharingan! Obito is redeemable because he only had one eeeeeeeeeeevil-chakra-producing-Sharingan eyeball at the time so he is only half evil! And later they will also befriend Madara as well because his Sharingan turned into Rinnegan and so it does not produce eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil chakra anymore, and thus he can be redeemed too! And then they redeem Sasuke too even though he has both eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil chakra producing eyes because... Kishimoto is a hack writer. It all makes perfect sense. [/sarcasm]

I remember when my best friend insisted that his characters had depth. I retorted that a character having been sad at some Point in the past does not equal depth.

Yeah, a terrible writer.

I'm increasingly convinced that both Kishimoto and Tite Kubo have grown tired of their respective series and are just trying to pile on as many middle fingers to the audience as possible so that they can finally kill Naruto/Bleach and go write something else.