Is Nintendo Back? Company Reports Unexpected Profits

[144_v1legacy]

Just a friendly reminder that Nintendo has sold more Wii U consoles than Microsoft has sold Xbox Ones.

Hardware sales were/are slow, but they do pick up with big game launches. If ~7.3m consoles is abysmal then Microsoft must really be in trouble with only 5.5m Xbone sales.

The Wii U has more on the table in the not-too-distant future than the Xbone and PS4 do as well, It doesn't seem to be stopping the PS4 sales though (mine's been collecting dust since I finished infamous second son :/).

The Xbox One is likely sold at a loss, the PS4 sells for a small profit, and as is traditional Nintendo style, the Wii U sells for a profit. I never had any doubts Nintendo would "turn it around", not that I thought operating at a loss for such a short time was a bad thing anyway.

Nintendo's first ever operating loss was in 2012, their second ever in 2013.

Microsoft's gaming division operated at huge losses for 8 straight years from the year 2000; and Sony operated at losses ranging from half a billion to more than 1 billion for 4 years from 2006.

Nintendo's losses have been minuscule in comparison to others in the industry, $220 million in 2012, which is the lowest ever reported loss from any of the 3 big companies apart from Sony in 1995 who lost $93 million, and then under $500 million for 2013. These were far from worrying figures for an $18.4 billion dollar company (Sony is only worth $17.7 billion).

All the ludicrous Nintendo is doomed talk over the last few years has really been blown out of proportion... even if things continued on that 2 year "trend" (which obviously hasn't happened), we would be at least 10 years off seeing Nintendo die/turn into Sega.

TL;DR Companies are allowed to report losses, it happens, it happens all the time. Reporting losses for 2 years isn't the end of the world. If Nintendo's Wii U sales are "abysmal" then the Xbox One's sales must be truly in the shit. Nintendo has more big releases in the holiday period and early 2015 than either the PS4/X1 to help boost sales, and above all else, the 3DS is still the best selling console (not just out of handhelds).

Ok, but that's not good either. If you're a Nintendo fan, be happy when Nintendo does well. But don't be happy when Microsoft doesn't - we want "gaming" to be healthy. It's just as obnoxious to be spouting gloom now for MS as it was when people were doing it for Nintendo.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

But I agree, Nintendo need more than the staples that made them house hold names hell, bring back ones they've left behind. If Nintendo did more like what they did with the 3 RPGs in Operation Rainfall maybe there'd be less skepticism and more competition.

Though when you break it down, Nintendo supposedly being a one-trick pony has always been a falsehood that can best be described as a very flimsy smear tactic; they make new franchises CONSTANTLY, moreso than any other developer around. When it takes me around six hands to count the amount of franchises they have, that is insane. Heck, just look at the Smash Bros' roster and that alone tells enough. Most companies are lucky to have ten regular franchises, Nintendo literally has DOZENS.

To be fair, it is very rare that a Nintendo franchise that doesn't have a decade long history does well. Nintendo consoles for sure have a hell of a lot of sleeper hits and cult classics, but a good amount of them never sold well enough to continue. That could be helped a bit bit doing some damn localizing or not region locking their consoles. I think those two things are what have made the Playstation brand produces a lot of sleeper hits and cult classics that have actually sold very well due to word of mouth.

 

[J Tyran]

Keeping Satoru Iwata around was the right decision after all then, so many people (the public, "journalists" and analysts) where saying he should be fired. Obviously the guy knows what he is doing, he took a pay cut and has slowly turned things around.

The Wii U is picking up too, its probably not going to do spectacularly well by the end of the generation but it looks like its not going to be a total disaster that many thought it would be.

 

[Ipsen]

Bayonetta 2's exclusivity bothers me because a lot of fans of the original aren't going to buy a WiiU just to play the sequel. Nintendo can have all the third-party exclusives it wants, but I'd prefer if they were original IPs rather than sequels to originally multiplatform games. Remember Eternal Darkness? That game was frigging awesome, and it sold less than half a million units. Why? Because it was on the GameCube. If Nintendo had made it a timed exclusive or something, or had bonus Ninty-flavored content like Bayonetta's special outfits and then released for the other systems, Nintendo would have made MORE money in the long run and that IP could have blossomed into a full franchise.

Sounds like you're pigeonholing the tastes of Bayonetta fans into specificity, perhaps for the sake of your own argument.

Keep a suitably open mind, and even if the only video game you liked is Bayonetta 1 (a true fan), or even scratch that; If you're a fan of ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY action games, you can find, now and in the future, comparable games to like on even the Wii U.

What makes this example and your comment weird is that I have a hard time believing that Bayo fans, or extending to action game fans (and even slimming the subsets down to 'a lot of') play only Bayonetta games, or even just action games. At least, not a large enough 'a lot' to have the pull to demand something like porting a game funded by a console manufacturer.

If you're going to use subsets of other gamers (without their explicit perspective), at least attempt to be more accurate or understanding before supporting your own opinion. I don't know any accurate trends in gamer buying/playing habits across genres, so I'll air on the side of openness; I think the healthy portion of the consumer base for this industry appreciates multiple genres, or even dabbles in genres they're not used to from time to time.

When good games don't sell, it's not entirely[footnote]I would say 'remotely' here, personally[/footnote] the fault of the platforms they're sold on. There is fault with the player base if this occurs. Players not having the money for consoles and the games they'd like is just about the best excuse for gamers when good games do not selling well (and this may signify a larger problem within industry, if so). Just about any other reasoning, like 'I/fans don't like what's on the system' is pigshit, and you/those fans then consist of more of the problem (however much a problem good games not selling well is)

 

[nima55]

Just a friendly reminder that Nintendo has sold more Wii U consoles than Microsoft has sold Xbox Ones.

Hardware sales were/are slow, but they do pick up with big game launches. If ~7.3m consoles is abysmal then Microsoft must really be in trouble with only 5.5m Xbone sales.

The Wii U has more on the table in the not-too-distant future than the Xbone and PS4 do as well, It doesn't seem to be stopping the PS4 sales though (mine's been collecting dust since I finished infamous second son :/).

The Xbox One is likely sold at a loss, the PS4 sells for a small profit, and as is traditional Nintendo style, the Wii U sells for a profit. I never had any doubts Nintendo would "turn it around", not that I thought operating at a loss for such a short time was a bad thing anyway.

Nintendo's first ever operating loss was in 2012, their second ever in 2013.

Microsoft's gaming division operated at huge losses for 8 straight years from the year 2000; and Sony operated at losses ranging from half a billion to more than 1 billion for 4 years from 2006.

Nintendo's losses have been minuscule in comparison to others in the industry, $220 million in 2012, which is the lowest ever reported loss from any of the 3 big companies apart from Sony in 1995 who lost $93 million, and then under $500 million for 2013. These were far from worrying figures for an $18.4 billion dollar company (Sony is only worth $17.7 billion).

All the ludicrous Nintendo is doomed talk over the last few years has really been blown out of proportion... even if things continued on that 2 year "trend" (which obviously hasn't happened), we would be at least 10 years off seeing Nintendo die/turn into Sega.

TL;DR Companies are allowed to report losses, it happens, it happens all the time. Reporting losses for 2 years isn't the end of the world. If Nintendo's Wii U sales are "abysmal" then the Xbox One's sales must be truly in the shit. Nintendo has more big releases in the holiday period and early 2015 than either the PS4/X1 to help boost sales, and above all else, the 3DS is still the best selling console (not just out of handhelds).

Ok, but that's not good either. If you're a Nintendo fan, be happy when Nintendo does well. But don't be happy when Microsoft doesn't - we want "gaming" to be healthy. It's just as obnoxious to be spouting gloom now for MS as it was when people were doing it for Nintendo.

You're right. To be fair, it's hard when you feel like your favorite thing is under attack, but yeah, you're right.

 

[Sonicron]

Their finances are actually improving...?

Must be that WiiU I bought a few weeks back.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

"is nintendo back?"



...they were gone in the first place?

No but they were losing a shit-ton of money.

 

[seditary]

I swear Pachter's gravestone will read "As dead as Nintendo is"

 

[CrystalShadow]

I love how people look at the situation and say 'Nintendo is doomed' when through this whole period, in spite of the losses, Sony has been doing far, far worse.

Don't get me wrong, the Playstation was doing well, but Sony is a very big company that does a lot of other stuff besides games... And they have been having some serious financial problems...

No-one goes around predicting Sony's imminent demise, do they now?
It's far more likely than Nintendo collapsing overnight, but it doesn't really get mentioned much... XD

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Great, now come back to us with reports after the holiday season and a quarter after the general public forgets Super Smash Bros exists. The former will probably still have impressive numbers, but I'm not sure about the latter. They need to keep this ball rolling, and maybe, if they hook enough people with Wii U's Smash Bros, they can punch out more games that install base will eat up.

I just hope this cash flux lights a fire under their kiesters that gets them to broaden their 1st party coverage. Mario and Zelda is a guarantee, so how 'bout that F-Zero that hasn't been seen in a decade. We also haven't seen a good Metroid in 7 years, and the full story arc ended on a cliffhanger back in 2002. (Metroid in no way needs another M:OM trainwreck narrative, but it would be nice if they tied up loose ends from the excuse plot.)

Keeping Satoru Iwata around was the right decision after all then, so many people (the public, "journalists" and analysts) where saying he should be fired. Obviously the guy knows what he is doing, he took a pay cut and has slowly turned things around.

The Wii U is picking up too, its probably not going to do spectacularly well by the end of the generation but it looks like its not going to be a total disaster that many thought it would be.

I really hate that whole "Iwata should leave" ideology. Sure, they've done some stupid things (The Wii U's name and its advertising for examples), and they really do need some fresh blood brought in at least as advisers (Which I guess they are doing.) But, he and other Nintendo execs are probably some of the rare handful of big business leaders that will admit their company is doing bad, accept salary cuts to somewhat offset losses, and won't immediately cut 2,000 employees and soon as it looks like the bottom might dip into the red. (He also actually made games before becoming President and CEO. Except for CFOs and a couple others executive positions should be filled by those with experience in the company's market.)Imagine if the yearly CoD guys, of the DLC happy ones, and the "fire everyone because the bottom line might go into the red" jerks took the helm.

The Wii U might be this gen's Gamecube, slow start (Well, that one did have Melee.), not much third party support but some good titles from hear and there, and mostly upheld by good first party games. Maybe next time, Ninty will make a console almost as strong as the other guys. (And maybe, the competition will be stupid enough to try something like MS's DRM snafu or full reliance on the cloud, without thinking about those without a decent connection, and Big N will swoop in like Sony did at E3.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

That would imply they ever left. Nintendo does some damn fine work in the midcard, why people mistake that as them having less credibility is beyond me. Nintendo don't lose those midcard feuds (EA, Ubisoft, and the other upper midcard heels have all been jobbing to Nintendo consistently), are a safe pair of hands, and no competitor is as accomplished or as renowned as them.

Why would Nintendo ever put an Exclusive they can hold no problem on other systems? That isn't how consoles work (well Microsoft haven't quite fully learnt that lesson).

Just buy the Wii U, its great. Damn fine supplement.
Unfair you have to pay the Nintendo tax you say? Well life isn't fair, you want those games than pay the tribute to Lord Nintendo. You want to see Nintendo pull off its famous finishers and signature moves live than pay to see a live show, otherwise just watch them on TV like the rest.

I am an unabashed supporter of Nintendo. People tend to rip on it beng the seeming 'little guy' of the big 3, in truth I think Nintendo is a brand at least comprised with some form of magic. They have that ineffable, indescribable sense of appeal, like James Bond. Some of the movies are abysmal, the best of them aren't even that great (Compared to other greats of their time, mind) but they can market franchises going on 31 years old. 31 years, and countless iterations.

Nintendo is the James Bond of gaming. The formula is formulaic, the setups and premises (from 1st party franchises, to peripheral use, to design specifications of their consoles) are all ridiculous, and yet ... James Bond. It will somehow sell, and inevitably sell big. The other reason why I love Nintendo is they are the only company that really believes in the magic of the marketplace. Running with an idea, or some stroke of genius, and explore all potentials with it. Investing big into it. Regardless of the naysayers and the analysts.

I always find it funny that people criticise Nintendo for relying on old, unoriginal IP. Zelda, Metroid, Mario ... all of them are just brands. Titles. Of all the console producers, only Nintendo knows when to innovate and when to stay traditional. The balance between needing to be singular in some facet, and when to send a love letter to the core fans of Nintendo gaming philosophy. Anyways, may seem biased but I have always given Lord Nintendo a fair share of my loot since I was 4 years old.

 

[P-89 Scorpion]

I was unaware that they were missing. The Xbone is still selling worse than the Wii U, any chance that Microsoft will be the one everyone thinks is DOOOOOOOOMED next?

Were the hell are you getting that idea? 2.4 million Xbone/360's in 3 months compared to 690,000 Wii U/Wii's in 3 months.

The Wii U's total sales aren't even 1 million above the Xbone even with 1 year longer on the market plus a much cheaper price.

 

[andri88]

One good quarter does not make a comeback, but I hope for the best. Have always been a Playstation guy myself (apart from my 3DS) but having Nintendo around can only be good for the market and it would be a real shame if they ended up going the same way Sega went.

 

[J Tyran]

Keeping Satoru Iwata around was the right decision after all then, so many people (the public, "journalists" and analysts) where saying he should be fired. Obviously the guy knows what he is doing, he took a pay cut and has slowly turned things around.

The Wii U is picking up too, its probably not going to do spectacularly well by the end of the generation but it looks like its not going to be a total disaster that many thought it would be.

I really hate that whole "Iwata should leave" ideology. Sure, they've done some stupid things (The Wii U's name and its advertising for examples), and they really do need some fresh blood brought in at least as advisers (Which I guess they are doing.) But, he and other Nintendo execs are probably some of the rare handful of big business leaders that will admit their company is doing bad, accept salary cuts to somewhat offset losses, and won't immediately cut 2,000 employees and soon as it looks like the bottom might dip into the red. (He also actually made games before becoming President and CEO. Except for CFOs and a couple others executive positions should be filled by those with experience in the company's market.)Imagine if the yearly CoD guys, of the DLC happy ones, and the "fire everyone because the bottom line might go into the red" jerks took the helm.

The Wii U might be this gen's Gamecube, slow start (Well, that one did have Melee.), not much third party support but some good titles from hear and there, and mostly upheld by good first party games. Maybe next time, Ninty will make a console almost as strong as the other guys. (And maybe, the competition will be stupid enough to try something like MS's DRM snafu or full reliance on the cloud, without thinking about those without a decent connection, and Big N will swoop in like Sony did at E3.

The whole "sack Iwata" issue got quite ugly for a while, he was even asked quite bluntly and aggressively at the last investor meeting conference call if he was going to resign. If you ask me a got a whiff of corporate politics from all of that, it all started at the same time and the industry analysts started it and then the copy pasting "journalists" spread it to the gamers who took up the cry which eventually got back to the investors.

Maybe someone on the board fancies his position or something, doesnt matter now though with profit all four quarters its obvious the direction hes leading Nintendo in is the right one even if its a long game rather than several rounds of redundancies and studio closures to prop up revenues by cutting spending.

Holding on to your staff and collective skillset is far more valuable over time, still they should have been moving faster than this and its good the Wii U is picking up now but they really did leave it swinging in the breeze for the first year after launch. Personally I think they could have done more to get 3rd parties on side too.

Microsoft dropped $2B USD into 3rd party exclusives/timed exclusives and exclusive content for the Xbone, Nintendo have a huge warchest and while spending that much would have been insane for them they could have done more than they have done. Publishers and studios have been wary of the small install base (worth noting that the Xbone has a smaller install base but $2B worth of green obviously greases wheels) and they have taken their time with ports to reduce costs to account for that, if Nintendo invested in the ports to help subsidise initial development costs publishers would have been more willing to release Wii U ports or release them faster. Nintendo would have made the money back in the long run because a bigger 3rd party library would have made more gamers willing to invest in a Wii U, particularly after the Xbone scandal and Sony announcing paid multiplayer and they could have grabbed those disaffected Microsoft and Sony customers.

 

[Casual Shinji]

No-one goes around predicting Sony's imminent demise, do they now?
It's far more likely than Nintendo collapsing overnight, but it doesn't really get mentioned much... XD

Actually they have been, what with all the news of Sony being in a lot of hot water.

The difference being that whenever Sony (or Microsoft for that matter) gets criticized for going down the drain, there's no hardcore fans playing the victim and acting like it's everyone else's fault. That somehow only seems reserved for Nintendo.

 

[Strazdas]

I don't know why, but I've never liked Michael Patcher. He always just comes off as an arrogant know it all with very little insightful information....but then again that could just be me.

according to tolls so far he has been around 50% right. and make no mistake, thats not a bad number. say a stock market analyst that could just sit around and guess things that turn out to be right 50% of the time with as much precision as Patcher did would be worth its weight in gold. so hes been quite insightful when looked at the broad scene.

Now, he DOES come off as an arrogant know it all and i dislike his personality, but i have to admit the man has insight.

I was unaware that they were missing. The Xbone is still selling worse than the Wii U, any chance that Microsoft will be the one everyone thinks is DOOOOOOOOMED next?

Unlikely. See, for Microsoft their Xbox is the only division thats providing losses while the whole other massive part of company is turning in profit. microsoft is safe, for now at least. even if they go pure loss on Xbox and ahve to abandon it.

Now lets look at the other two:

Nintendo untill now had a loss from its ONLY money source that is videogames. they dont have other divisions to lean back on on hard times (altrought they do have a TON of cash reserves). So if videogames fail for nintendo all comapny fails.

For sony Playstation is making a profit. however playstation and their movie industry is the only two divisions making profit while the rest of the copany is sinking so fast that they are already trying to throw off as much weight as they can to keep afloat. if gaming fails the Sony movie division will be the only one left to hold on whole company, and it cant do it alone.

so, as you see, its much harder to predict doom for MS based on its poor videogames performance than it is for the other two.

 

[Evonisia]

Their finances are actually improving...?

Must be that WiiU I bought a few weeks back.

This. Once Nintendo actually released some damn things for the Wii U, people bought it. Case in point: This guy, and I myself got a Wii U last month.

In the mean time, how about a fucking price drop for some games? The Windwaker HD is still £40 new in the UK, so I just got the Windwaker bundle (and the Wii U pad looks beautiful with that design).

 

[Roxas1359]

You're right. To be fair, it's hard when you feel like your favorite thing is under attack, but yeah, you're right.

While that may be the case, you also have to remember that not everyone grew up with Nintendo, especially nowadays. Now we have lots of kids who grew up with Sony's Playstation and even Microsoft's Xbox line. Not to mention that there are people who didn't grow up with Nintendo, but SEGA instead. While it's not fun to have what you like being attacked, you have to remember that no one else likes that either.

There is also a difference between attacking and criticizing. I love Nintendo games, but I'd be ignorant if I were to ignore their bumblings they've had over these last few years not just with the Wii U launch, but the 3DS launch as well. Their marketing has been abysmal, with very few ads getting a clear message across; their game drought has been terrible, and results in launch Wii U owners getting tired of waiting (bought mine in launch year before price drop); their initial pricing of the Wii U wasn't helping them at all, although this was more of a problem with the 3DS at launch; their attitude towards Let's Plays and the internet at large gave them a very bad image of them being very out of touch (for example the EVO incident from last year). Nintendo is a great company and will be around for ages, but they still shoot themselves in the foot just as badly as Microsoft and Sony do all the time. N

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

The type of gamer who likes Bayonetta and your average Nintendo fan don't have a very big overlap.

woah woah woah, where are you getting this from?
I fall into this overlap. I know another Wii U owner, he fits into this overlap, and I've had friends who've played MK8 at my place who would fall into this overlap.

 

[MoreThanANoob]

I swear Pachter's gravestone will read "As dead as Nintendo is"

Shit. He's gonna live forever, then, isn't he?