Is Rap Music Really Music?

[McGuinty1]

Is it. Rap, from what I understand, stands for Rhythm and Poetry and I've noticed it's just slowed down disco (well really early rap like this:

Yeah, well reggae started out as slowed down ska, and look how that turned out. Just because you dislike certain attributes common to music in genre X doesn't justify dismissing the entire genre. Just because I dislike the tendency prog bands have to show off with pointless noodling and overwrought lyrics (especially those based on the works of Ayn fuckin' Rand), it does not follow that all prog is worthless dreck.

There is good music and shitty music in every genre, and it's up to you to decide what you enjoy listening to, not to condemn an entire subgroup based on limited experience. Personally, I love being taken by surprise by music, and a lot of records that I had a negative first reaction to ended up being some of my very favorites (Trout Mask Replica!!). If you don't like John Coltrane or Miles Davis, I'm not going to fault you, as their records are dense and can be hard to get into on the first listen. But if you then say, "Jazz is not music", the gloves are off buddy.


Edit: Also OP, you should look up some different definitions of "music". I'm pretty sure that not one of them has melody as a requirement, only a feature common to different forms of music.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

And like that, my faith in The Escapist community is restored. Now, let's play a tune...

 

[AvitaDeva]

This isn't to shit on rap and everyone that listens to it, but to show that it simply does not fit the definition of music. There is no melody, no singing, no instruments, etc. The only instrument-like sounds form a beat, and that just doesn't cut it. Talking is not singing as any elementary school music teacher will point out. And yea, the subject matter being 90% about crime, drugs, and bitches does not help rap's case. You can be entertained by it all you want, but don't try to pass it off a music.

I would personally listen to Justin Beiber before any rap song, so I can't wait until all the kids and general public get over this whole genre.

I hate to call you ignorant or anything like that but it seems you are unaware of what singing can constitute.

singing is the act of producing musical sounds with the voice, and augments regular speech by the use of both tonality and rhythm. A person who sings is called a singer or vocalist. Singers perform music known as songs that can either be sung a cappella (without accompaniment) or accompanied by musicians and instruments ranging from a single instrumentalist to a full symphony orchestra or big band

Rapping is all about the tone of ones voice and and the rhythm in which they project a rhyme...This means they can be considered as singing...now if you listen to a rapper they don't rap how they talk do they this means their voice has been augmented to fit the background music...according to your logic a lot of metal can not be music because there is very little of what most people would consider sing. You argument is also flawed because i have never heard a rap song recorded which did not feature a single instrument...and if there is the human voice can also be considered an instrument and thus you are horribly under informed sir. lastly subject matter does not change the key fact presented above if i sang a song about fucking a unicorn with a razor dildo it would not be any less music...it would be wrong and immoral but no less music.

Maybe your opinions require more research...maybe you should do some before you post it would make you sound better informed friend...I can't wait for people to get over Hip hop becoming a popular medium for musical expression...when that day comes whoa what a site it will be

 

[AvitaDeva]

To quote Yahtzee:

Short answer: No

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

wow i bet it took you a while to think of that...good job

 

[Mr Scott]

Besides a few tracks my feelings are thus:

Retards
Attempting
Poetry

 

[Harbinger_]

To quote Yahtzee:

Short answer: No

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

wow i bet it took you a while to think of that...good job

Actually it didn't believe it or not. I thought of that in pretty much 3 seconds. Go me! I'm original!

 

[silasbufu]

"Music - the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity."

It's music by definition, whether you like it or not. And not only is it music, it's art.

It would seem obvious for any rap fan to tell you right now that "you have had a limited experience with rap music, so you don't know what you're talking about", and as much as I would like to be original in this post, I can't find a better answer. You don't know what you're talking about, and it's obvious.

Exactly. Sure, if your only experience with rap is this (even Ludacris thinks that track is foolish) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGXzlRoNtHU] then I would understand hating rap.

To put this in terms you would probably understand (for this experiment, let's assume you're a metalhead). Imagine someone who has never listened to music before listened to BrokenCYDE and then claimed that all metal is bad and not even music. You would probably say something like "Those guys aren't even metal! Even I think their music sucks!"

By the way, this has a melody:


Sure, it's autotuned like crazy, by you contradicted yourself. That's music by your definition of music, yet it's also rap by definition of rap.

Yes, I'm a massive Kanye West fan and I'm also a Phoenix Wright fan. What of it?

Kanye is a fantastic rapper, iregardles of what he sometimes says or does. I don't like him as a person but I give credit where it's due.
Aside from alot of great songs of his, like the one you posted, he produced alot of amazing ones for other rappers like Jay-Z and Common.

 

[BonsaiK]

I say no. I define music very simply as something having a musical melody. Sung, played, strummed, doesn't matter, as long as it's present. Speaking quickly does not a melody make. Thus rap isn't music.

Which is not to say there's no rap out there worth listening to; on the contrary, some is both worthwhile and socially relevant. However, when the vast majority of it is about how cool it is to be a criminal, or to have hot bitches and big TVs, I think society as a whole can do without that.

Clarification edit: I'm not saying rap is bad or not worth listening to, in fact I'm quite fond of quite a bit of it. All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be classified as music, it should be classified as something else that's similar but different.

Technically, you're wrong. Rap is music. Period. You may define music as something that has a musical melody, but that is not a technically correct definition of music, and I am saying this as someone who is both academically and professionally qualified to tell you this. If rap was not music because it does not contain melody, tribal drumming would also not be music, in fact all drumming would not be music, most of Led Zeppelin's "Moby Dick" wouldn't be music, and even orchestral pieces like Edgard Varese's "Ionisation" that are built entirely from percussive instruments would also not be music.

However, rap does have melody anyway, even when it's not trying to have one. When people speak, they pitch their words just like they pitch their notes when they sing, therefore speech actually has a melody. The better rappers often exploit this to add a dynamic flow to a piece:


Pretend the sing-songy chorus isn't there, and listen to the rapper. Notice his pitch change up and down to emphasise certain phrases, listen as he does more of it as the song progresses. His vocals certainly aren't singing in the traditional sense but could nevertheless easily be written down as musical notation, because he IS pitching notes. I hope you're also noticing the staunchly anti-materialistic lyrics.

Having said that, a lot of rappers don't know a lot about the technical side of music and thus don't consider themselves musicians. That however doesn't mean that they're not making music. You don't have to understand everything about music to be able to make it, just like you don't have to understand the workings of an internal combustion engine in order to be a driver.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Rap doesn't have melodies?

U MAD?

Well, the best stuff usually does. But music doesn't necessarily need melodies (tribal drum beats anyone? The intro to Am I Evil? doesn't have a melody and that's music). As much as I dislike a lot of rap I wouldn't say it's not music.

 

[Tranka Verrane]

I am 41 years old. Today the OP made me feel like I was a teenager by comparison. Thanks for that.

TL;DR to the thread as a whole but of course rap music is music. Some of it is quite the best music around. Equally some of it is the worst. If you are in the US I suspect you are exposed to more of the bad stuff than we are here in the UK, the Atlantic makes a great filter.

 

[Mozared]

I'm probably beating a dead horse by now, but, I suppose you shouldn't call it 'music', no. The best way to test this is to think about how you would explain the style to an alien. If you were talking about music, and let the alien hear some Country, Blues, Rock 'n Roll, Metal and Reggae first and then suddenly switched to pure rap (1 beat the whole song long), the alien might be confused - for that purpose I wouldn't call rap music.

For any other purpose, it really doesn't matter much.

 

[BonsaiK]

I'm probably beating a dead horse by now, but, I suppose you shouldn't call it 'music', no. The best way to test this is to think about how you would explain the style to an alien. If you were talking about music, and let the alien hear some Country, Blues, Rock 'n Roll, Metal and Reggae first and then suddenly switched to pure rap (1 beat the whole song long), the alien might be confused - for that purpose I wouldn't call rap music.

For any other purpose, it really doesn't matter much.

I reckon the alien would be more inclined to consider metal the odd one out. The modern rap sound evolved directly from dancehall reggae, however modern metal doesn't sound texturally a lot like blues or rock and roll from the 1950s (even though they are distantly related).

Also, I can't think of a single rap song off the top of my head that is only a beat and words, with no other elements.

 

[DSK-]

If Rap isn't music, then neither is anything created by Kate Bush.

 

[SFMB]

No: Rap isn't music. Rap is primarily a joke. A bad joke.

 

[Nifty]

I say no. I define music very simply as something having a musical melody. Sung, played, strummed, doesn't matter, as long as it's present. Speaking quickly does not a melody make. Thus rap isn't music.

Which is not to say there's no rap out there worth listening to; on the contrary, some is both worthwhile and socially relevant. However, when the vast majority of it is about how cool it is to be a criminal, or to have hot bitches and big TVs, I think society as a whole can do without that.

Clarification edit: I'm not saying rap is bad or not worth listening to, in fact I'm quite fond of quite a bit of it. All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be classified as music, it should be classified as something else that's similar but different.

I suppose some of your best friends are black as well, are they?

If rap doesn't match up to your definition of music (even though vast amounts of it does), then your definition of music doesn't match up to the dictionary definition of music. Which would mean one of you is wrong. To be honest, I don't know which one to plump for.

 

[AvitaDeva]

No: Rap isn't music. Rap is primarily a joke. A bad joke.

Wow you just broke the mold buddy...all the well articulated arguments here for and against Rap as a genre of music must bow down before the majesty and general thoroughness of your agreement...if you can't bring a well thought argument to a thread then why post at all your input is essentially meaningless and therefore it should be kept to your self. You did not even attempt to provide a definition of music and no supporting content which denies rap it's standing as a musical genre. If you come here to post this and things like "you cant spell rap with out crap" or "Retard Attempting Poetry" you should simply leave or post that shit on youtube where your ignorance will be ignored except by those whom want to fight a losing battle against the forces of stupidity. I boggles my mind that this is even a question in the minds of some people. Just a note to future posters please read some of the arguments presented before hand and formulate a coherent and complete thought it will, for that is what this thread is a about answering a question and a cliche or silly one liner is not gonna answer a god damn thing.

 

[fenrizz]

Message aside though, if the lead voice (be it vocal or instrumental) isn't melodic, then it's not music, it's words being spoken with musical backing. There's a difference. Like I said, I'm not condemning rap as not being worth listening to, I'm just saying it's not music, it's something else.

I think you got it wrong here mate.
From what I'm getting you mean that it is not singing (or song if you wish).
On that note most classical music ain't that either, but it still is music.

 

[pulse2]

No: Rap isn't music. Rap is primarily a joke. A bad joke.

Wow you just broke the mold buddy...all the well articulated arguments here for and against Rap as a genre of music must bow down before the majesty and general thoroughness of your agreement...if you can't bring a well thought argument to a thread then why post at all your input is essentially meaningless and therefore it should be kept to your self. You did not even attempt to provide a definition of music and no supporting content which denies rap it's standing as a musical genre. If you come here to post this and things like "you cant spell rap with out crap" or "Retard Attempting Poetry" you should simply leave or post that shit on youtube where your ignorance will be ignored except by those whom want to fight a losing battle against the forces of stupidity. I boggles my mind that this is even a question in the minds of some people. Just a note to future posters please read some of the arguments presented before hand and formulate a coherent and complete thought it will, for that is what this thread is a about answering a question and a cliche or silly one liner is not gonna answer a god damn thing.

Well... Short sentences are easier for simple minds. Trolling succeeded.

Would that therefore make you a joke? Considering you didn't take the time to explain why.

Like you said, simple sentences for simple minds. Or in this case, 'by' simple minds.

 

[SFMB]

Ok. People can call me a rapper.

 

[PrimoThePro]

Spoiler: You call this MUSIC?!

No it is not.
I see music by their lyrics and the emotions conveyed in the music. Some Rap is poetic and beautiful, I call such music Urban, not Rap.
It's why I like Metal. It is so true to itself and there are lyrics there that are more then just "I slammed 40 bitches last night."