Is Rap Music Really Music?

[Legion IV]

If you say it isint then either is meatl. Yes thrashing the guitar and screaming beyond all understanding. Thats music. Perfect that makes perfect sence.

Of course it music. Better then that metal core or anything with core on the end of it.

 

[likalaruku]

I concider it a form of poetry, but the repetitive rhythem & lack of variety in tone make me exclude it as a form of music. It's more talking than singing & the beat never changes. Now 90s hip-hop was music.

 

[DiMono]

(snip)

First of all, let me compliment you on being one of the few in here willing to structure a proper argument to go with your indifference in opinion, I don't mind people having a different opinion to my own, even if its about something I'm passionate about, but what annoys me is when people make an ignorant statement without making valid justification as to why.

On to your reply, I agree, music isn't music without being heard, on a page it is just written, but that's the point, the same could be said about anything, no matter whether it is rock, rap or country. Which leads me to this, even when someone raps, the ideology behind it is to rap to a beat, no matter what that beat may be. There is no such thing as a rapper who raps without some kind of timed beat. A good rapper can (spit) sing thier lyrics and get people moving to it without having to use any instruments, which negates your argeument about melodies being needed, just the same way a singer doesn't need an orchestra in the background to really push thier voice. Rap is about rhyming and making a point, that point is eitherto battle with an opposing rapper, to convey a feeling or thought, like a singer or to open the listeners mind to new concepts...or at least good rap is meant to do that anyway, that gangsta rap is something different, I'm not even going to explain that, just the same way I wouldn't be able to explain this if I was a metal fan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBKae1PDaAc&feature=pyv&ad=6246618800&kw=death%20metal&gclid=CP-01Mv60KUCFcse4QodehB9jQ

My point about the art isn't really that different, because like you said, to a deaf person, is music any less music as to a blind person is art any less art? The most important factor of music to me is to stir up a feeling inside ones soul. The melody doesnt matter if you don't enjoy the music. If I listen to classical, I expect it to make me feel calm or uplifted, if I listen to rock, I expect excitment or understanding and if I listen to Reggae, I expect joy and laughter, all these different genres bring out different emotions, and sometimes, music genres can appeal to different groups, Muse for example has done its fair share of incredible music that makes me want to be a rock star, while The Roots have me wanting to be the greatest rapper alive. THAT is the most important factor of music, because simply saying music is a melody is like putting anything that has a little tune into the same category as Micheal Jackson, I'm sorry, but the birds in my garden don't make me feel like boogying down and they too sing melodies. That doesn't mean the little songs they tweet are beautiful to hear, but thats about it, they don't do much else for me.

This is how we define good music from bad, a person with a bad voice can't sing, not because he lacks a melody, but because his melody is out of sync or the words he is singing aren't making much sense. A good rapper is judged on how well thier lyrics flow and how easy it is to get into the beat that they have created.

Now I say this to partially agree with you, when I write, my written words don't become a form of art until seen through someone elses eyes, to some, Tolkiens written work is considered an art. So in the same way, once those words have been taken from the page and put into someone's mouth, depending on how they express those words, it can be defined as music. It's a little extreme to say a rapper just speaks thier lyrics, bucause I have yet to come across a good rapper that speaks his lyrics any more then a rocker speaks his. They just express thier lyrics in very different ways. Okay, I'm going to shut up now because I've writtten more than I wanted to, lol, but I'll add one last question, in a flipped situation, where there is just intrumentals and no lyrics, would you class that as none music?

I know, it's hard to keep posts short in here, right? Quick tip though: their, not thier.

Of course I wouldn't class that as not being music; melody doesn't need to be vocal, just present. And it's not so much that it's not music or art until experience by someone else, it's more that it's not music or art until it's in its finished form. Prince (see what I did there?) has entire albums of music locked away in a safe that have never been heard by anyone except those in the recording studio, presumably so if the world goes up we'll have music. The fact that nobody's heard it doesn't make it any less music than When Doves Cry is.

As for what to expect from music, I think it's a little disingenuous to say all classical music makes you feel this way, all rock makes you feel that way. Bach's Fugues may elicit one emotion, while Mozart's Symphonies may take you through several in rapid succession. I think the point is that it should make you feel some emotion, rather than necessarily feeling a specific emotion.

Let me approach this from another angle though: would you say Kesha sings?

 

[kemosabi4]

Spoiler: Here's me proving you wrong.

Rock AND Rap
Next lot will be the greatest Rap artist ever in my opinion.
And Is this rap? Because it's the first modern song I have loved in a LONG time.

Calumon: I thought it was the street telling poetry? Then again, it always was kinda quiet.

Oh my Go.. I... Will you marry me?

 

[KissofKetchup]

Most rap today? No. Pointless? Not always. Rap can be the vehicle to express many emotions and explore many meaningful, important and controversial issues that aren't always possible in song for various reasons. Rap to me is really just poetry spoken to a beat. It's definitly still art in the same way a Shakespearean sonnet is artistic in nature. That said, most rap today is still crap because all it is about is some retarded dance move, how much money the rapper has, or how many bitches he gets.

 

[Hollock]

You're getting at the lack of tonality in most rap right? Because I know you don't hate rap, and you're not in the "bitches and ho's" mindset. By this you have a point, but I would never say that it means rap doesn't count as music. It's poetry accompanied by instruments in a manner to blend together a smooth flowing sound. But they go together, they're made for each other. It's not like me reading Walt Whitman with flight of the bumblebee playing in the background.
off topic: most of the new music that I like today counts as rap. But it's really hard to find. Sturgeon's law at work.

 

[pulse2]

(snip)

(Snipped)

I know, it's hard to keep posts short in here, right? Quick tip though: their, not thier.

Of course I wouldn't class that as not being music; melody doesn't need to be vocal, just present. And it's not so much that it's not music or art until experience by someone else, it's more that it's not music or art until it's in its finished form. Prince (see what I did there?) has entire albums of music locked away in a safe that have never been heard by anyone except those in the recording studio, presumably so if the world goes up we'll have music. The fact that nobody's heard it doesn't make it any less music than When Doves Cry is.

As for what to expect from music, I think it's a little disingenuous to say all classical music makes you feel this way, all rock makes you feel that way. Bach's Fugues may elicit one emotion, while Mozart's Symphonies may take you through several in rapid succession. I think the point is that it should make you feel some emotion, rather than necessarily feeling a specific emotion.

Let me approach this from another angle though: would you say Kesha sings?

I have a bad habit with 'their and thier' lol

Don't get me wrong, by saying classical makes me feel a certain way, doesn't necessarily exclude classical to one feeling, I'm just giving an example, there are forms of classical that are used in the likes of intense situations for another example, no music is restricted to certain feelings, but you tend to listen to certain types of music in order to feel a certain way, for example, you are rather unlikely to play classical at a club because you came there with the intention of boogying down, in the same way you wouldn't play metal at a wedding if you wished to be conventional.

My point was that good music should stir some kind of emotion in you if you like that genre of music, its not just about a melody although a melody alone CAN stir emotions, but it could also be about what is said. One might ask, how does a sad song make a person cry (Titanic's theme tune for example), was it the sentimental words that made the person cry or the melody itself.

When you go clubbing and you hear a tune you like, is it the melody you find catchy or the words being said you find catchy? Its the same thing with rap, the people listening are part of both the beat and the words being said.

As for Kesha, I wouldn't say she is singing or not singing, whether you are singing or not isn't really the point, you don't have to be singing for it to be classed as music, I'm sure there is someone that loves her music that would slam me for even so much as thinking her voice sounds monotone.

On the topic of Kesha, let me show you a popular (well they used to be until they fizzled out) group here, initially I didn't like them, I thought their music was to put it bluntly 'dry', but the fact is, they were popular and somehow they got me jigging and put a smile on my face, thus sparking an emotion, so regardless of what I thought, it's still considered music, and the beat isn't much to talk about either, so it's pretty close to rap, anyway, I'll finish on this note: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPbNMLwmxYk

 

[Talal Provides]

Yes, very much so, and it's very complex music at that.

 

[Tanner The Monotone]

Only if they don't edit their voice (voice tuner) and use real instruments, not electronic ones.

 

[Patrick Dare]

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's not music. I hate kesha but it's still music,just terrible music. It's like art, you might think just throwing paint on a canvas isn't art but that doesn't make it so but you're entitled to your own opinion of whether or not it's good art.

Edit: "mu·sic   
[myoo-zik] Show IPA
?noun
1.
an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color."

 

[Mass B]

Depends on the rapper. Otherwise no, unless you can throw it into a good remix

 

[Kevonovitch]

short answer: no
long answer: LAWLZ, fuck no, othwerwise my ass would be beethoven when i fart.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Only if they don't edit their voice (voice tuner) and use real instruments, not electronic ones.

So you dont believe in electric guitars, pianos, um.. I know there are some kinda electric drums?

 

[Raregolddragon]

Yes rap is a form a music


but its the same way how a 2x4 is considered a deadly weapon.

 

[Nouw]

Rap is Music. As much as I hate it, it has musical structure and fits this criteria:
'an artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner'

 

[EarthBoundGiygas]

Unfortunately it is most of it is garbage in my opinion Rap is the crappy evolution of Hip-hop there was some ok 80's hip hop artists, but all of it now is garbage. The only "Rapper" i like is Kid Cudi even though his music really isn't Rap at all, its good Hip-hop misclassified music.

I hate Screamo aswell, its just metal music brought to a shitty level. Metal is good on its own, so is Rock and Prog. But once you move onto something that sounds like some retard making ape noises into a microphone with people playing shitty backtracks that just crosses the line.

I'm starting to move away from Lyricated music and more onto non-lyracated songs like Orchestrals and Touhou songs (and the remixes even though they have lyrics)main reasoning, some can be beautiful and put you into a trance (The Lunar Abyss-Monster Hunter Tri) Or can be fast paced and compelling (Native Faith-Touhou 10 The Mountain of Faith). Plus no arguments, either you like it or you dont nothing much to argue over non lyricated songs.

 

[Rachel McCall]

John Cage defined music as "The production of sound."

So, yes, rap is music.

 

[Zaik]

Rap is music, in the same sense that throwing pots and pans around my kitchen and flailing around in the floor with sticks in each hand and held under my toes and in my mouth is music.

 

[KazTheKing]

People who can't appreciate music shouldn't be given the right to judge whether something is or isn't music.

How about stepping outside your comfort zone a bit? The biggest offenders of this are usually the Rock/Metal people and the Classical/Instrumental/Jazz people. Just because it isn't your favorite doesn't mean no one can enjoy it! I enjoy a lot of music, It doesn't even have to be all that good as long as it is enjoyable. My MP3 player runs the gamut. I have everything from 80-90's rap to Norwegian Deathmetal to Bubble Gum pop! It may not be the playlist of musical genius but it sure is fun hooking it up to a stereo hanging out with friends and just listening to whatever the shuffle thinks we should listen to.

 

[DiMono]

And now tell me that screaming about Satan conveys a serious message.

Couldn't comment on death metal either way, not having listened to enough to form a defensible opinion. I have a preconception that it will be louder than I care for, based on what little I've heard, and don't feel like investigating it further.

John Cage defined music as "The production of sound."

So, yes, rap is music.

By that definition a tree falling in the woods is music, as are vomiting, a savage beating, and turning a page in a book. I would argue against that definition.

(stuff)

Spoiler: My mp3 list includes (extremely partial list, in no particular order):

8 Bit Jesus
Ayreon
Barenaked Ladies
Bon Jovi
Dave Matthews Band
Eminem
Evanescence
Melissa Etheridge
Metallica
Ubiquitous Synergy Seeker
Queen
Bone Thugz 'n' Harmony
Sarah McLachlan
The Granola People
Dobie Gray
Frank Sinatra
Will Smith
Michael Jackson
DJ Sammy
Prince
Boyz 2 Men
Jay Hamilton
Aqua
Cab Calloway
Bob Marley
Gina G
Robyn
The Cult
Andy Griggs
Moby
Spin Doctors
Louis Armstrong
Eric Clapton

Trust me, my comfort zone is very large, and I still haven't said that rap as a genre is bad.