Is Robocop the perfect movie?

[TristanBelmont]

I don't even mean just for action movies. I have seen that movie a dozen times (original and director's cut each) and I have still yet to find a flaw with it. It's also almost perfectly symmetrical.

Seriously, I know this is like when people say Fallout New Vegas is the pinnacle of gaming and Watchmen is the high point of literature, etc., but I really think Robocop is absolute perfection in film.

 

[Zontar]

Robocop is an amazing movie, and for an action movie it's about as near perfect as it can get, but it still has its flaws like leaps in logic and problems with post-production. If you want to get nitpicky, here's a list of flaws.


Then again, no movie is without sin.

 

[Post Tenebrae Morte]

I've always seen it as perfect for its time, but not really holding up as it ages. Hence why I liked the new robocop. It didn't feel like it needed to kiss the soles of its predecessors feet to be successful. It told its own tale in a more current era way.

 

[Tiger King]

Robocop is good but it is not perfect.
eye of the beholder springs to mind....
my fave films are one of...
the thing
event horizon
hellraiser
alien

I dunno, the list goes on and on.
but Robocop perfect?
no, not for me.

 

[Zontar]

I've always seen it as perfect for its time, but not really holding up as it ages. Hence why I liked the new robocop. It didn't feel like it needed to kiss the soles of its predecessors feet to be successful. It told its own tale in a more current era way.

Too bad the "current era way" is bad CG, poor storytelling and gun violence without the violence part.

 

[MorphBallBomb]

Yes, Robocop is perfect. It is in the pantheon of timeless self-aware action movies with disturbingly deep messages and questions.

 

[Fox12]

Not really, no. It was a funny little movie, but I wouldn't call it great. It's one of those movies I have to turn my brain off to enjoy. That said, it IS enjoyable, in the way that Terminator is enjoyable. It comes from an era where action was still pivotal in an action movie, but the directors had the sense to give it heart and character. Modern action films are more like a highlight real of cliche's. Gun scene. Car chase scene. Hand to hand combat scene, maybe on a moving/high up platform. Terminator, Indiana Jones, and Robocop had all of those things, but they also had an interesting plot. Nothing particularly high minded, but still emotional.

But it's not perfect. The scenes are often heavy handed, to the point of being silly. The characters, while either sympathetic or deplorable, are extremely flat and simple. The villains are absurdly evil corporate overlords. The protagonist is the most sympathetic dude ever. They don't really deviate from that formula. It's the same thing with a James Cameron movie. Aliens, Avatar, and even Titanic are great action romps, but the characters are little more then archetypes that serve a purpose. The military leader guys are cruel and evil. The rich aristocrats on the boat are cruel and evil. The rich businessmen are always cruel and evil, and only want money. The poor guys/natives/underdogs are uniformly good and sympathetic. It's simple, and it works, but I wouldn't call it great. There isn't much moral complexity.

Of course, as I said, nothing is perfect, and Robo Cop is still a wonderful action movie. The closest thing I've seen to "perfect" is this:

Spoiler

And it still doesn't fit the bill. I have a number of criticisms of the story, even during the Golden Age Arc, which I consider the crowned jewel of human achievement in story telling.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

There is no such thing as a perfect movie. Robocop is a bit further way than most. While it's fun, it's also silly in the extreme.

Terminator 2 is about as close to perfect as it gets, but only when paired with The Terminator and only if the latter is played first.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

There is no such thing as a perfect movie. Robocop is a bit further way than most. While it's fun, it's also silly in the extreme.

Terminator 2 is about as close to perfect as it gets, but only when paired with The Terminator and only if the latter is played first.

Terminator 2 is a good movie, I just never got the whole "it's one of the best action movies ever". Terminator 2 has only a few action scenes, and they're not even close to being the best there is. It's still a fantastic film though.

OT: I'm in the camp that thinks the new Robocop was better. I think it's actually the perfect remake. The original is a product of it's time and the new version is basically a modern version that still deals with some very real issues in todays world. I was really surprised at how good it was.

I'd go as far as to say that the new Robocop was actually better than the original. The characters actually felt surprisingly real. Not like actors, but more like the kind of people they're supposed to be portraying, not hammed up Hollywood caricatures of those types of people. Joel Kinnaman's portrayal of Alex Murphy, a.k.a Robocop, was very human. Like what you'd expect from a police officer and a person who wakes up to learn they're mostly some machine monstrosity. How he tries to put his life back together through the movie.

I think that's why so many people hate it so much. It violates their nostalgia for one, but it's also not the same kind of turn off your brain and munch popcorn to gratuitous action and violence, like the original was.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

There is no such thing as a perfect movie. Robocop is a bit further way than most. While it's fun, it's also silly in the extreme.

Terminator 2 is about as close to perfect as it gets, but only when paired with The Terminator and only if the latter is played first.

Terminator 2 is a good movie, I just never got the whole "it's one of the best action movies ever". Terminator 2 has only a few action scenes, and they're not even close to being the best there is. It's still a fantastic film though.

OT: I'm in the camp that thinks the new Robocop was better. I think it's actually the perfect remake. The original is a product of it's time and the new version is basically a modern version that still deals with some very real issues in todays world. I was really surprised at how good it was.

I'd go as far as to say that the new Robocop was actually better than the original. The characters actually felt surprisingly real. Not like actors, but more like the kind of people they're supposed to be portraying, not hammed up Hollywood caricatures of those types of people. Joel Kinnaman's portrayal of Alex Murphy, a.k.a Robocop, was very human. Like what you'd expect from a police officer and a person who wakes up to learn they're mostly some machine monstrosity. How he tries to put his life back together through the movie.

I think that's why so many people hate it so much. It violates their nostalgia for one, but it's also not the same kind of turn off your brain and munch popcorn to gratuitous action and violence, like the original was.

I think people hate it because they're of the mindset remake = bad. Which is just fucking stupid. The 2011 Conan wasn't a fantasy epic like the original but it was a decent enough movie to sit down and enjoy. Total Recall 2012 wasn't anything like the original but I thought it was still an enjoyable sci fi film, neither were better than the original but they weren't absolute shit.

Look at all the rage over The Crow remake, people are losing their minds when so far it's shaping up to be pretty solid (Jack Huston was amazing on Boardwalk Empire). There's just this massive elitist snobbery when it comes to movies now, "eh a remake with CGI that I've seen a single trailer for? WORST MOVIE EVER". It's just sad honestly.

To be fair I think the reason that people think remakes automatically suck is because remakes generally violate their nostalgia for the original. Unless it panders to the existing fan base, which more often than not results in a crap movie.

Captcha: you're fired! (on a pink backround no less)
Captcha what the hell!? I don't even work for you! Has anyone else noticed captcha being a bit aggressive lately?

 

[MorphBallBomb]

The two movies ask fundamentally different questions about human nature.

Robocop, regarding Murphy, is centered on the question of identity. Murphy actually dies, and Robocop has to piece together memories and his current context to determine if he really is Alex Murphy, if Alex Murphy matters, and if he can matter as someone who is not only not Alex Murphy, but not even human. The media in Robocop is part of the ultraviolent conspicuous superconsumption dystopian 80's envisioned by Paul Verhoeven, who is noted for satirical takes on his films (see Starship Troopers versus its 'source material').

Robocop 2014, regarding Murphy, is centered on the question of free will. Murphy's identity is not killed along with the majority of his body (thanks for that body horror scene, btw), but his free will is subverted through tampering. The will of the people is subverted and manipulated by corporate media intersections, but is shown ultimately to have power.

I liked Robocop 2014, and I think the reason it worked was because it was different in many respects from the original. If it had tried to do it 'faithfully', it would've been horrid. There are several a few times when the story chugs, and the action looks superficially flashy like modern films tend to, but the movie has a great deal of heart and some good social commentary regarding corporations, the news, and the nature of free will (noticed some Daniel Dennett references in there). I did not expect to like it as much as I did, but I do prefer the original.

I think it's a mistake to think that Robocop isn't a smart movie. It can certainly be enjoyed dumbly, but there's a lot under the surface. Did you notice the Christian allegory? It's kind of intentionally-dumb-as-social-commentary.

I also like Red Letter Media, so I'm plugging them into this discussion. I don't agree with them all the time (who doesn't like the Stargate movie?) but they're entertaining and occasionally quite insightful.

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-robocop/
http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-robocop-2014/

 

[Nazulu]

Yeah, it's an awesome film, but we can always find little problems. I doubt there will ever be anything that does everything amazingly. I call something great when one side of it (like story writing or execution) is done extremely well. You know, when it has big moments that really stand out. 2001: A Space Odyssey is not perfect in anyway, but some of those memorable scenes stick out to me more than anything else I've seen so far.

Of course, as I said, nothing is perfect, and Robo Cop is still a wonderful action movie. The closest thing I've seen to "perfect" is this:

Spoiler

Lol. Every time man. Every time there is a thread about best art or the similar, you praise Beserk. Which is fine and all. I especially loved the anime. Whats your 2nd to most perfect piece of entertainment? For a change, you know.

 

[Fox12]

Yeah, it's an awesome film, but we can always find little problems. I doubt there will ever be anything that does everything amazingly. I call something great when one side of it (like story writing or execution) is done extremely well. You know, when it has big moments that really stand out. 2001: A Space Odyssey is not perfect in anyway, but some of those memorable scenes stick out to me more than anything else I've seen so far.

Of course, as I said, nothing is perfect, and Robo Cop is still a wonderful action movie. The closest thing I've seen to "perfect" is this:

Spoiler

Lol. Every time man. Every time there is a thread about best art or the similar, you praise Beserk. Which is fine and all. I especially loved the anime. Whats your 2nd to most perfect piece of entertainment? For a change, you know.

It's true, it's the one thing I'll fanboy over. I'm really hard to impress, but it just sort of hit all the right spots.

Neon Genesis is a flawed masterpiece, which I find endearing. It's also an emotional roller coaster. I know it has a reputation for being pretentious, but I don't think the writer was trying to make himself look like a genius. I think he was just trying to write from the heart. It just so happens that his heart apparently looks like this:

Spoiler

Watchmen comes dangerously close to being perfect. Almost every page is symbolic of something, but it manages to remain relateable through it's amazing characters. Of course, then that space tentacle monster shows up...

Silent Hill 2 was pretty great. I can't think of many flaws there, except for some of the voice acting and dialogue.

Then there's a personal favorite, Final Fantasy Seve-
*burried beneath a pile of thrown beer cans and boos*

 

[Casual Shinji]

It's pretty perfect in its field, which is to say 'the violent 80's action satire'. Robocop does it better than most others. In fact there's very few if any directors that can copy that Verhoeven magic. Which is why you don't fuck with his movies and try and remake them.

From a technical standpoint though it's got some issues here and there. That woman with the blond wig...? Yeah, that was obviously a blond wig.

 

[Nazulu]

Yeah, it's an awesome film, but we can always find little problems. I doubt there will ever be anything that does everything amazingly. I call something great when one side of it (like story writing or execution) is done extremely well. You know, when it has big moments that really stand out. 2001: A Space Odyssey is not perfect in anyway, but some of those memorable scenes stick out to me more than anything else I've seen so far.

Of course, as I said, nothing is perfect, and Robo Cop is still a wonderful action movie. The closest thing I've seen to "perfect" is this:

Spoiler

Lol. Every time man. Every time there is a thread about best art or the similar, you praise Beserk. Which is fine and all. I especially loved the anime. Whats your 2nd to most perfect piece of entertainment? For a change, you know.

It's true, it's the one thing I'll fanboy over. I'm really hard to impress, but it just sort of hit all the right spots.

Neon Genesis is a flawed masterpiece, which I find endearing. It's also an emotional roller coaster. I know it has a reputation for being pretentious, but I don't think the writer was trying to make himself look like a genius. I think he was just trying to write from the heart. It just so happens that his heart apparently looks like this:

Spoiler

Watchmen comes dangerously close to being perfect. Almost every page is symbolic of something, but it manages to remain relateable through it's amazing characters. Of course, then that space tentacle monster shows up...

Silent Hill 2 was pretty great. I can't think of many flaws there, except for some of the voice acting and dialogue.

Then there's a personal favorite, Final Fantasy Seve-
*burried beneath a pile of thrown beer cans and boos*

Haha, Brilliant! I just happen to like all this fiction too, probably for different reasons though. Really need to see Neon Genesis again. Thanks for sharing.

You have an interesting view on things, like you see other sides of art that I don't pick up so quickly on. Wish I could meet you in person.

Also, I had no idea Final Fantasy 7 was criticised so heavily. I haven't played it for awhile though so it's possible my opinion will change, but I thought it was considered a classic, including it has great music and I don't remember any bugs.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Robocop was the perfect movie... in the 80s.

Robocop now? With privatized everything, corporations largely in control, basically everything it was satirizing being or coming true?

It's not as funny now.

 

[Vigormortis]

"Is Robocop the perfect movie?"

Uh, no. No, it's not. Not even close.

No movie is.

....this is like when people say Fallout New Vegas is the pinnacle of gaming

Uh, what?

and Watchmen is the high point of literature

What?!