Is South Park getting weird...er?

[Zontar]

especially of the creators terrible views, like climate change denial

They've never pushed that message in the show, so why should that be relevant? It's not as though people in the entertainment industry having controversial opinions is abnormal.

No they've pushed it in the show a couple of times. Manbearpig is them equating global warming to a mythical beast.

Or maybe, just maybe, it was a joke making fun of Al Gore.

Are you serious? There have been multiple episodes about how climate change isn't real and groups that want to stop it are bad. What do you think ManBearPig was about? Or the episode where Terrence and Phillip re-unite, where the town is basically enslaved by Greenpeace or a similar organization?

Again with the ManBearPig, I seriously have no idea how anyone connects that to global warming outside of the fact that Al Gore is the one being made fun of, and obviously that's what they're making fun of (even though one could just as easily argue it's making fun of the internet).

I'd also like to point out that the "not-Greenpeace" people where pretty hilarious, and when it comes to Greenpeace, it is an organization worth ridiculing. They're anti-nuclear power (despite it being the cleanest form of power and their own founder denouncing them for it), they're anti-GMO because they don't understand science, and they think blocking the Keystone pipeline was actually good for the environment because they don't understand economics or the simple fact that trains pollute more then a pipeline.

Greenpeace and many of its contemporaries are dominated by people who don't even have a basic understanding about the environment, so I think knocking them is something even those who completely agree with their causes should have no problem with. They're pretty much opposed to everyone: those they disagree with for obvious reasons, and those they agree with because they're actively working against their own stated goals. Given the "nothing's off the table" mentality Trey and Park have it's only natural that environmental activists would eventually be made fun of. I actually can't think of a group which hasn't.

 

[Zontar]

I think South Park has gotten weirder and weirder with each season, albeit with some spikes like the Human CENTiPAD and the Pee episode.

I disagree, I feel as though it's becoming more and more grounded in reality as time goes on. I mean when was the last time a demon from hell or an alien showed up, or the last time a giant monster and/or robot threatened to destroy the town?

 

[Evonisia]

I think South Park has gotten weirder and weirder with each season, albeit with some spikes like the Human CENTiPAD and the Pee episode.

I disagree, I feel as though it's becoming more and more grounded in reality as time goes on. I mean when was the last time a demon from hell or an alien showed up, or the last time a giant monster and/or robot threatened to destroy the town?

I think a few instances of that happened between Season 13-16(ish, without checking) with stuff like the Coon trilogy, the ending of the episode about poor children, plants that convert goths into emos[footnote]Until the ending of that episode, of course.[/footnote], Princess Kenny, and of course the episode where the Barbara Streisand robot came back but I'm pretty sure that shouldn't count.

Later seasons (10 onwards let's say) seemed to drop the weird characters like Mr. Hankey, and just focused on weird stuff like the aforementioned Human CENTiPAD.

 

[Megalodon]

Eh. I actually think the recent stuff suffers for its continuity. It makes the ends somewhat unsatisfying and lacking 'bite'. They do all this work to set up the episode, then bungle it and the last hurdle. Worst 2 for this are the 1st episode, where the brawl between pedo-Jared, the PC-bros, the pregnant Mexicans and the Syrian refugees just kinda stops because Kyle finally caves to his abuse, and the one where they're trying to get a Whole Foods, and a perfectly ruinous street brawl between the town the the child labourers just goes nowhere and they get the store like nothing happened.

Not sure if these were part of the 'message' the show was going for, but they didn't make me laugh.

What do you think ManBearPig was about?

Al Gore being mental? It doesn't seem to be a controversial opinion now that he massively exaggerated the 'Global Warming Threat' in his documentary. South Park generally seems to go after people being stupid with their ideas, rather than the ideas themselves. Best example off the top of my head is the Smug episode, with the 'message' Hybrid Cars are fine, maybe even important but don't be a self righteous prick about it.

 

[Josh123914]

I like pc principal, but I hate everything else.

It's not really south park anymore. They've tripled the size of the town, and now it feels like a city of hipsters. It's just too big. Part of the draw was having the ludicrous small town humor. I've enjoyed the self depricating humor, but I'm a little disappointed with the rest of the season. I hope it goes back to normal soon.

I think that's the point of this season though.

It's essentially a hick town that is trying really hard to be this tolerant, cosmopolitan and trendy place (particularly with SoDoSoPa, the Whole Foods, and the ethnic minorities), but will ultimately fail because the heart of the town hasn't been given the time to grow naturally into that type of mindset.

Also I predict PC Principal will commit suicide or something when he finds out he has taken a smart single woman's job.

 

[Groxnax]

Man, I just went on the South Park Wiki and some people there just hope that P.C. Principal meets a horrible end.

Yikes.

 

[Zontar]

No not really, the satire is quite obviously about global warming there.

Evidently not given how half the people in this thread talking about it seem to link it back to it making fun of Gore himself and not the topics he touched upon. Plus no mention was made at all of climate change in that episode, just Gore trying to get people to take him seriously.

Seems it's more you reading into something that isn't there then everyone else not reading into it, especially given this is a series known for not being subtle.

 

[Zontar]

I don't really know how you can think that it's being read too much into, especially as Gore is known for talking about global warming and South Park does satire.

Gore is known for more then just climate activism, it's like saying the 2008 election episode was making fun of the fact Obama is black and McCain is old, sure that's something that people know about them but it certainly wasn't what they made fun or nor where the jokes hinting that that was what was being made fun of.

Gore is know for making bold statements about pretty much everything and exaggerating things, and that was probably what was being made fun of given the delivery. Hell, the man probably did more harm then good with his inconvenient truth documentary given its doom-gloom nature and the fact a lot of the predictions haven't panned out since he used outlying studies to paint the state of the environment in the worst possible light.

For example, when did they make fun of climate change deniers?

They've made fun of Alex Jones multiple times, and he's probably the face of american climate denial back when people talked still about him.

 

[vallorn]

You know, this is starting to make me want to do a marathon of South park and give each episode a "weirdness" ranking so that we can objectively track the amount of LSD in the water fountains that Matt and Trey drink from.

 

[chadachada123]

Gore is known for more then just climate activism, it's like saying the 2008 election episode was making fun of the fact Obama is black and McCain is old, sure that's something that people know about them but it certainly wasn't what they made fun or nor where the jokes hinting that that was what was being made fun of.

Gore is know for making bold statements about pretty much everything and exaggerating things, and that was probably what was being made fun of given the delivery. Hell, the man probably did more harm then good with his inconvenient truth documentary given its doom-gloom nature and the fact a lot of the predictions haven't panned out since he used outlying studies to paint the state of the environment in the worst possible light.

And the analogy of Manbearpig is a clear satire of global warming. Equating what Gore is talking about to a mythical beast.

They've made fun of Alex Jones multiple times, and he's probably the face of american climate denial back when people talked still about him.

Googling "Alex Jones South Park" is turning up nothing.

It seems for their "nothing is off the table" attitude, there's a lot of things that are very off the table for South Park.

Even if it's granted that the episode was some how making fun of global warming rather than Gore's hyperbolic presentation, that is still but one example of something that is "off the table" for South Park. Beyond this, just because one "side" WAS made fun of at some point doesn't mean that the other side is receiving special treatment. It just might not have gotten an episode because there hasn't been a good episode idea for it. Even if they never cover the other "side", South Park isn't a political show that has any sort of obligation to "cover all sides fairly." Humor comes first and biting commentary comes next.

I think, if anything, the episode Two Days Before the Day After Tomorrow is more arguably an "anti-"global warming episode, but even then, it's more just making fun of it than making any claims about it.

 

[Charli]

South Park has consistantly 'gotten weirder' every few seasons. You need only go through a marathon since season one to realize where these jumps in style and humor alter and expand upon the show premise.

Luckily, I love each and every iteration of the show and this season is no exception.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Even if it's granted that the episode was some how making fun of global warming rather than Gore's hyperbolic presentation, that is still but one example of something that is "off the table" for South Park. Beyond this, just because one "side" WAS made fun of at some point doesn't mean that the other side is receiving special treatment.

So why did Stone and Parker, when they acquired the script to The Day After Tomorrow, plan to release a film using the exact same script in a mocking presentation?

There's the ManBearPig episode, the Two Days Before The Day After Tomorrow, the Smog/Smug episode, arguably the episode with the pree-filled water park[footnote]I know some people thought of it as being yet another climate change denial episode but I'm not convinced[/footnote] and a plan to release a parody of a disaster film with environmental conservation undertones.

On the other hand there's... nada regarding the climate change denialists.

If its about the hyperbole surrounding climate change rather than climate change itself they're doing poor job of presenting it that way.

Even if they never cover the other "side", South Park isn't a political show that has any sort of obligation to "cover all sides fairly."

No but when the score reads at least 4-0 regarding a particular issue its hard to claim that they're not being partial.

Let's just say that Stone and Parker aren't partial at all. Let's say they're politically biased and on the more conservative/libertarian side of things...so? Can't the right side of the aisle have one, just one, show that mocks liberals and liberal causes? The left has pretty much everything else. Most of the news networks, the movie and TV industries, the music industry (minus Country music), literature is fairly evenly split, and now liberals are going after video games. I don't think a single comedic cartoon show is that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Scytail]

Good hard laugh at the people who think that just because Trey and Matt havent done an episode bashing climate-deniers, they must be some sort of secret Republicans.

 

[Groxnax]

I wonder if The Fractured But Whole game is going to have South Park pre, present, or post new Southpark with all the new additions.

EDIT: and yeah, it's pretty funny that when you criticize a politician for making a fool of himself, that somehow means you're attacking the science of global warming or w/e.

Hmmm, does that mean we have to fight P.C. Principal as a boss?

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Let's just say that Stone and Parker aren't partial at all. Let's say they're politically biased and on the more conservative/libertarian side of things...so?

So it means that the "we target everybody equally" line is untrue, a cowardly smokescreen to deceive people. They're free to be as partial as they wish but they're not entitled to their own facts and the facts are that their actions do not always correspond with their words. Its not that they have certain opinions, its that they don't own up to them in an effort to save face.

Can't the right side of the aisle have one, just one, show that mocks liberals and liberal causes? The left has pretty much everything else. Most of the news networks, the movie and TV industries, the music industry (minus Country music), literature is fairly evenly split, and now liberals are going after video games. I don't think a single comedic cartoon show is that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

All I gathered from this was a persecution complex regarding people with political opinions you disagree with making content in a field where they've always been present.

It's not a persecution complex, it's just a fact. I'm not saying that there needs to be equal time, or whining about the fact the liberals own the media lock, stock, and barrel. I just find it a bit annoying when people bemoan South Park as being so slanted and how they don't target everyone, yet South Park's bipartisan bashing record is a lot more solid than any other comedy show out there, especially when compared to everything else on Comedy Central.

 

[neoontime]

Eh, I didn't really like the last season and I'm afraid I won't like this one as much either. I really don't think the serialization was done well before in the last season since it just ended with a really disappointing episode. Since the show is basically written the week of, I don't think the writing allows things to be connected that well, as last season showed. Honestly, I only really liked the yaoi episode cause it was less context heavy and had everything else referenced shoved in. This season isn't any weirder obviously since like people said, they've done way more crazy topic and random crap. Hopefully I'm wrong and all the built up plots don't just end in the last 3 minutes like in the last season.
Maybe paying South Park upfront for 2 seasons might of dampened their creative process.

 

[Josh123914]

Good hard laugh at the people who think that just because Trey and Matt havent done an episode bashing climate-deniers, they must be some sort of secret Republicans.

I recall an interview done a few years back when they were asked which extreme of the political spectrum they hated more, and Stone said something to the effect of "Y'know we all hate the extreme right, but, I really fucking hate extreme liberals".

It's not a persecution complex, it's just a fact. I'm not saying that there needs to be equal time, or whining about the fact the liberals own the media lock, stock, and barrel. I just find it a bit annoying when people bemoan South Park as being so slanted and how they don't target everyone, yet South Park's bipartisan bashing record is a lot more solid than any other comedy show out there, especially when compared to everything else on Comedy Central.

I'm not bemoaning Stone and Parker's political positions, I'm bemoaning that they're intellectually dishonest cowards. They claim that they're "equal opportunity offenders" and somebody in this thread here even defended them as such when its patently untrue. Its a cowardly lie, an attempt to dismiss criticism of their ideas as if they don't even hold a lot of the opinions that they purport or that they'll target anybody for any rason. Its bollocks. Instead of owning up to their biases they disavow responsibility for their own opinions, lacking any sort of conviction. They're allowed to have their opinions and I'm not complaining but they lower themselves by lying about it. Its like when a video of a person going on a racist rant comes up and the person defends themselves by saying "well when I they're not people its coming from a place of love". Bullshit. We can see right through it and it lowers both us and them by making such sort of a lie. It lowers them because they're afraid of owning their convictions and it lowers us because they think we're stupid enough to buy whatever bullshit they're selling.

Right, so how would you go about making fun of Climate Change deniers?

I mean it. They've been made fun of a million types already and discredited to the point where they are not considered credible by anyone who would even watch Comedy Central, as well as bringing nothing new to the table.

How do you spend an episode bashing Climate Change deniers without making it feel like a gigantic cop-out of an episode?

Al Gore was interesting because he's a former Presidential Candidate who probably did more harm than good obfuscating numbers to make an impending world-ending calamity needlessly worse.
Looking at this season, I honestly think they're making fun of all these social issues while they can before its considered too offensive, and this goes back to the quote above.
No one is going to seriously take a bunch of Evangelical Christians complaints seriously when they claim X is offensive, but they will when a crew of Liberal Arts graduates do, and claim the content to be detrimental to rape victims or something, and given their qualifications, the latter group is multitudes more likely to be employed in the media than an Evangelical.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

I think they actually got more anchored in reality, as they've moved on from whatever silly stuff(alien butt stuff, talking human feces stuff, Mecha Barbara Streisand stuff etc.) haunting the small town in Colorado this week, onto satire targeting next hot shit out there.
I've only seen 2 episodes of the 19th season, so far, but i presume this "new" approach is still prevalent as well?

As for PC Principal - he did beat the shit out of Cartman, you gotta give him that, no?

South Park wont make fun of certain subjects or themselves.

They did make fun of themselves. Noticeably, during the Cartoon Wars arc and in the Giant Turd episode(can't remember the exact title of that one).

 

[Zontar]

South Park wont make fun of certain subjects or themselves.

They did make fun of themselves. Noticeably, during the Cartoon Wars arc and in the Giant Turd episode(can't remember the exact title of that one).

There's also the fact that Terence and Philip is literally a joke at their expense since it was in response to criticism that the show was just fart jokes and toilet humour.

I'll say it again: they took a criticism of their show, and made it a valid one by using it as a running gag within the show.

 

[Josh123914]

Right, so how would you go about making fun of Climate Change deniers?

Easy. Since we're talking about "denialists" and not "skeptics", denialists being people who have an active investment in denying the possibility of climate change, it would be pretty easy to do so. If we don't want to feign it as anything else and just portray it as climate change then we just have them somewhere slowly being overcome by flood waters while they pretend thatnothing is going on. Bit easy but I knowSouth Park could drag that idea out.

I mean it. They've been made fun of a million types already and discredited to the point where they are not considered credible by anyone who would even watch Comedy Central, as well as bringing nothing new to the table.

Democracy doesn't care if they've been discredited, sadly. There are millions and millions of climate change denialists and there are plenty of politicians wielding political power moving against any sort of acknowledgment of climate change. They're wrong but that doesn't mean that they don't have any power.

How do you spend an episode bashing Climate Change deniers without making it feel like a gigantic cop-out of an episode?

Because there aren't any episodes where they just do stupid shit without any point because its funny? Their last trilogy was nothing but stupid goofiness without any underlying point.

If they wanted to make any sort of clarification they've had over a decade to do so and haven't. Instead, they've only supported it further. I think its safe to say what their position is.

So omission of satirising something now means support?

Get a grip, look at the implications that has for literally every content creator that hasn't taken a stance on an issue. I think in these episodes they're more anti-hysteria and eco-smugness of greens than the truth of climate change itself.

South Park is very good at making fun of things, and bringing light to problems with even the "correct" side. Aside from Bill Maher, a lot of comics are hesitant to point out flaws in their own allies.