Is South Park getting weird...er?

[LysanderNemoinis]

Even if it's granted that the episode was some how making fun of global warming rather than Gore's hyperbolic presentation, that is still but one example of something that is "off the table" for South Park. Beyond this, just because one "side" WAS made fun of at some point doesn't mean that the other side is receiving special treatment.

So why did Stone and Parker, when they acquired the script to The Day After Tomorrow, plan to release a film using the exact same script in a mocking presentation?

There's the ManBearPig episode, the Two Days Before The Day After Tomorrow, the Smog/Smug episode, arguably the episode with the pree-filled water park[footnote]I know some people thought of it as being yet another climate change denial episode but I'm not convinced[/footnote] and a plan to release a parody of a disaster film with environmental conservation undertones.

On the other hand there's... nada regarding the climate change denialists.

If its about the hyperbole surrounding climate change rather than climate change itself they're doing poor job of presenting it that way.

Even if they never cover the other "side", South Park isn't a political show that has any sort of obligation to "cover all sides fairly."

No but when the score reads at least 4-0 regarding a particular issue its hard to claim that they're not being partial.

Let's just say that Stone and Parker aren't partial at all. Let's say they're politically biased and on the more conservative/libertarian side of things...so? Can't the right side of the aisle have one, just one, show that mocks liberals and liberal causes? The left has pretty much everything else. Most of the news networks, the movie and TV industries, the music industry (minus Country music), literature is fairly evenly split, and now liberals are going after video games. I don't think a single comedic cartoon show is that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Scytail]

Good hard laugh at the people who think that just because Trey and Matt havent done an episode bashing climate-deniers, they must be some sort of secret Republicans.

 

[Groxnax]

I wonder if The Fractured But Whole game is going to have South Park pre, present, or post new Southpark with all the new additions.

EDIT: and yeah, it's pretty funny that when you criticize a politician for making a fool of himself, that somehow means you're attacking the science of global warming or w/e.

Hmmm, does that mean we have to fight P.C. Principal as a boss?

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Let's just say that Stone and Parker aren't partial at all. Let's say they're politically biased and on the more conservative/libertarian side of things...so?

So it means that the "we target everybody equally" line is untrue, a cowardly smokescreen to deceive people. They're free to be as partial as they wish but they're not entitled to their own facts and the facts are that their actions do not always correspond with their words. Its not that they have certain opinions, its that they don't own up to them in an effort to save face.

Can't the right side of the aisle have one, just one, show that mocks liberals and liberal causes? The left has pretty much everything else. Most of the news networks, the movie and TV industries, the music industry (minus Country music), literature is fairly evenly split, and now liberals are going after video games. I don't think a single comedic cartoon show is that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

All I gathered from this was a persecution complex regarding people with political opinions you disagree with making content in a field where they've always been present.

It's not a persecution complex, it's just a fact. I'm not saying that there needs to be equal time, or whining about the fact the liberals own the media lock, stock, and barrel. I just find it a bit annoying when people bemoan South Park as being so slanted and how they don't target everyone, yet South Park's bipartisan bashing record is a lot more solid than any other comedy show out there, especially when compared to everything else on Comedy Central.

 

[neoontime]

Eh, I didn't really like the last season and I'm afraid I won't like this one as much either. I really don't think the serialization was done well before in the last season since it just ended with a really disappointing episode. Since the show is basically written the week of, I don't think the writing allows things to be connected that well, as last season showed. Honestly, I only really liked the yaoi episode cause it was less context heavy and had everything else referenced shoved in. This season isn't any weirder obviously since like people said, they've done way more crazy topic and random crap. Hopefully I'm wrong and all the built up plots don't just end in the last 3 minutes like in the last season.
Maybe paying South Park upfront for 2 seasons might of dampened their creative process.

 

[Josh123914]

Good hard laugh at the people who think that just because Trey and Matt havent done an episode bashing climate-deniers, they must be some sort of secret Republicans.

I recall an interview done a few years back when they were asked which extreme of the political spectrum they hated more, and Stone said something to the effect of "Y'know we all hate the extreme right, but, I really fucking hate extreme liberals".

It's not a persecution complex, it's just a fact. I'm not saying that there needs to be equal time, or whining about the fact the liberals own the media lock, stock, and barrel. I just find it a bit annoying when people bemoan South Park as being so slanted and how they don't target everyone, yet South Park's bipartisan bashing record is a lot more solid than any other comedy show out there, especially when compared to everything else on Comedy Central.

I'm not bemoaning Stone and Parker's political positions, I'm bemoaning that they're intellectually dishonest cowards. They claim that they're "equal opportunity offenders" and somebody in this thread here even defended them as such when its patently untrue. Its a cowardly lie, an attempt to dismiss criticism of their ideas as if they don't even hold a lot of the opinions that they purport or that they'll target anybody for any rason. Its bollocks. Instead of owning up to their biases they disavow responsibility for their own opinions, lacking any sort of conviction. They're allowed to have their opinions and I'm not complaining but they lower themselves by lying about it. Its like when a video of a person going on a racist rant comes up and the person defends themselves by saying "well when I they're not people its coming from a place of love". Bullshit. We can see right through it and it lowers both us and them by making such sort of a lie. It lowers them because they're afraid of owning their convictions and it lowers us because they think we're stupid enough to buy whatever bullshit they're selling.

Right, so how would you go about making fun of Climate Change deniers?

I mean it. They've been made fun of a million types already and discredited to the point where they are not considered credible by anyone who would even watch Comedy Central, as well as bringing nothing new to the table.

How do you spend an episode bashing Climate Change deniers without making it feel like a gigantic cop-out of an episode?

Al Gore was interesting because he's a former Presidential Candidate who probably did more harm than good obfuscating numbers to make an impending world-ending calamity needlessly worse.
Looking at this season, I honestly think they're making fun of all these social issues while they can before its considered too offensive, and this goes back to the quote above.
No one is going to seriously take a bunch of Evangelical Christians complaints seriously when they claim X is offensive, but they will when a crew of Liberal Arts graduates do, and claim the content to be detrimental to rape victims or something, and given their qualifications, the latter group is multitudes more likely to be employed in the media than an Evangelical.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

I think they actually got more anchored in reality, as they've moved on from whatever silly stuff(alien butt stuff, talking human feces stuff, Mecha Barbara Streisand stuff etc.) haunting the small town in Colorado this week, onto satire targeting next hot shit out there.
I've only seen 2 episodes of the 19th season, so far, but i presume this "new" approach is still prevalent as well?

As for PC Principal - he did beat the shit out of Cartman, you gotta give him that, no?

South Park wont make fun of certain subjects or themselves.

They did make fun of themselves. Noticeably, during the Cartoon Wars arc and in the Giant Turd episode(can't remember the exact title of that one).

 

[Zontar]

South Park wont make fun of certain subjects or themselves.

They did make fun of themselves. Noticeably, during the Cartoon Wars arc and in the Giant Turd episode(can't remember the exact title of that one).

There's also the fact that Terence and Philip is literally a joke at their expense since it was in response to criticism that the show was just fart jokes and toilet humour.

I'll say it again: they took a criticism of their show, and made it a valid one by using it as a running gag within the show.

 

[Josh123914]

Right, so how would you go about making fun of Climate Change deniers?

Easy. Since we're talking about "denialists" and not "skeptics", denialists being people who have an active investment in denying the possibility of climate change, it would be pretty easy to do so. If we don't want to feign it as anything else and just portray it as climate change then we just have them somewhere slowly being overcome by flood waters while they pretend thatnothing is going on. Bit easy but I knowSouth Park could drag that idea out.

I mean it. They've been made fun of a million types already and discredited to the point where they are not considered credible by anyone who would even watch Comedy Central, as well as bringing nothing new to the table.

Democracy doesn't care if they've been discredited, sadly. There are millions and millions of climate change denialists and there are plenty of politicians wielding political power moving against any sort of acknowledgment of climate change. They're wrong but that doesn't mean that they don't have any power.

How do you spend an episode bashing Climate Change deniers without making it feel like a gigantic cop-out of an episode?

Because there aren't any episodes where they just do stupid shit without any point because its funny? Their last trilogy was nothing but stupid goofiness without any underlying point.

If they wanted to make any sort of clarification they've had over a decade to do so and haven't. Instead, they've only supported it further. I think its safe to say what their position is.

So omission of satirising something now means support?

Get a grip, look at the implications that has for literally every content creator that hasn't taken a stance on an issue. I think in these episodes they're more anti-hysteria and eco-smugness of greens than the truth of climate change itself.

South Park is very good at making fun of things, and bringing light to problems with even the "correct" side. Aside from Bill Maher, a lot of comics are hesitant to point out flaws in their own allies.

 

[Josh123914]

So omission of satirising something now means support?

When you satirize a serious issue five times and never address the far, far more dangerous opponents of the issue then people are going to, reasonably, assume that they're on the side of the latter. On one hand, a single former politician being a greedy hypocrite. On the other hand, lots of federal politicians blocking legislation to deal with a serious issue of global scale for future generations using scientific comprehension inferior to that of a fourth grader.

South Park is very good at making fun of things, and bringing light to problems with even the "correct" side. Aside from Bill Maher, a lot of comics are hesitant to point out flaws in their own allies.

Well seeing that the politicians that they're most prone to side with are the ones who are denying one of the serious, global issues of this generation then they're clearly doing a shitty job of pointing out flaws in their allies.

You forgot to address this;

Get a grip, look at the implications that has for literally every content creator that hasn't taken a stance on an issue. I think in these episodes they're more anti-hysteria and eco-smugness of greens than the truth of climate change itself.

So what are you actually arguing here? What political leanings do you see Parker and Stone as having? Because to my knowledge, none of the kids ever stood up and made a passionate speech about how Climate Change is a non-issue, and what you're saying here is that because they've never devoted a full episode to a side of discussion that had been largely discredited by academics DECADES before the show first aired, it somehow points to them being Conservatives and thus not worth listening to.

 

[Josh123914]

You forgot to address this;

Get a grip, look at the implications that has for literally every content creator that hasn't taken a stance on an issue. I think in these episodes they're more anti-hysteria and eco-smugness of greens than the truth of climate change itself.

No, I addressed both. Addressing them again because they popped up again in another sentence would be redundant. Stone and Parker satirized climate change proponents at least five times while ignoring people whom a far, far greater threat than any hysterical tree-hugger, which are the denialists. It would be reasonable for anybody to draw the conclusion that they're in the climate change denial camp based on the recurring pattern.

So what are you actually arguing here? What political leanings do you see Parker and Stone as having?

Because to my knowledge, none of the kids ever stood up and made a passionate speech about how Climate Change is a non-issue

So you think a character literally needs to get up on a soapbox for a writer to be trying to make some sort of point? This in a comedy show no less? Comedy, which always requires something to be at the butt of the joke?

and what you're saying here is that because they've never devoted a full episode to a side of discussion that had been largely discredited by academics DECADES before the show first aired, it somehow points to them being Conservatives and thus not worth listening to.

They've never devoted a sentence to address climate change denialists while devoting entire episodes, almost creating an entire film, in which they ridicule proponents of climate change. Furthermore, I must iterate again that discredited =/= without power. They've done shows on bullshit artists who still have influence at the time (and many of them still do) before, such as Scientology as a money cult and the "I talk to the dead psychics". Seems to be a rather stark contrast both in regards to the "we're opportunity offenders" claim and it certainly doesn't ring true with your point that they wouldn't address discredited people/organizations that have influence.

Because people like Greenpeace, the psychic, and Whale Wars are in the national conversation! Climate change is important, but what you're ignoring is that people like John Oliver and countless other pundits are around to make the point very easily that there is no debate whether or not its happening. The downside of shows like that is there isn't much room for middle-ground, and admitting your side has faults only dents Climate Change's credible arguments.
What South Park does regarding this issue is to put a check on well-meaning people. They may be on the right side of the issue, but their actions only harm their whole side's position. Where other media don't pick up the slack, South Park usually steps in, which isn't difficult since it only takes them a couple days to make an episode.
Just from this season, they were able to drop in that Caitlyn Jenner killed someone before transitioning. Something that wasn't mentioned as she was congratulated post-operation.

The character that gets up on the soapbox is exactly whenever the creators are making a point. Kyle standing up and giving a speech has become its own joke recently. South Park isn't a subtle enough or even well-enough planned show for what you're stating to come about. For what you're saying to happen, all the other writers on the show over the years would also have to be in on it, rather than the obvious be true; Extremists are easier to poke fun at.

And for the record, they lost the voice actor of Chef to Scientology. Maybe the fact that one of their employees threatened them with resignation to avoid speaking ill of Scientology incentivised them to blow the gasket on that whole cult?

Want them to make a whole episode about Climate Change deniers? E-mail them! They take what their fans want into account, in fact Craig x Tweek would not have happened if not for the fact that on Deviantart that pairing had somehow been running for about 10 years.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

They claim that they're "equal opportunity offenders" and somebody in this thread here even defended them as such when its patently untrue. Its a cowardly lie, an attempt to dismiss criticism of their ideas as if they don't even hold a lot of the opinions that they purport or that they'll target anybody for any rason. Its bollocks. Instead of owning up to their biases they disavow responsibility for their own opinions, lacking any sort of conviction.

Here's a superb interview with them:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/25/matt-stone-trey-parker-ar_n_475744.html

They flat out say that the only reason(s) they tend to mock liberal ideas over conservative ones is because:
A: Basically everyone else is already mocking conservative ideas. As they say: "I think sometimes we do gravitate towards things other people haven't done and a lot of times that makes us gravitate away from ripping on Republicans cause it's just done very well by a ton of people."
B: It's funnier, because liberals so frequently tend to be ultra smug/holier than thou, and thus shitting on them is more entertaining.

And I'm not sure where you got the notion that "equal opportunity offender" also means they must mock all ideas equally. They're going to mock whichever ones they can get the most laughs out off.