Is South Park getting weird...er?

[Josh123914]

I really can't see the wrong in MarsAtlas' comments - SP does seem cowardly in their defense of their content. Matt and Troy are obviously biased and it shows in their "targets".

I don't see why one can't disagree with the views of the creators but still find humor. I thought the season premiere was funny - the PC stuff seemed heavy handed at parts tho'.

Most people responding to Mars seem to think Mars':

Is offended at SP.
Wants SP to choose particular targets
Change the content of the show
Or is some sort of SJW(what ever that implies or means is lost on me).

All I got was:
1.SP say they target everyone.
2.They don't.
3.They only say that so we don't call them bias.
4.They do this to avoid backlash.
5.This is artistic cowardice.(C/D?)

I have NO clue what Mars' political leanings have to do with the above 5 points. Is it non-sequitur day?

Eh, it's more people are refuting the one thing Mars continues to zero in on while ignoring pretty much every other instance of SP being gigantic assholes(sometimes literally) to targets. Not to mention, for someone that's "watched everything", you'd think they may have more instances than something from like fifteen years ago. I haven't watched it since middle school and even I understand some of the issues and people they were making fun of now.

True. While the Global Warming thing might be debate-able , saying that SP targets "everyone" is a bit naive. I love the slant they bring to Comedy Central - it is refreshing, but even way back in middle school I could tell they had a bias.

They have the bias of traditional Libertarains (hates big government, freedom for all, etc) but even still, they say they make the effort to attack people on both sides of the aisle.
The issue I took is that from one of earlier posts is the implication that Stone and Parker's political views were proof of them having some sort of agenda they wanted to push.

To be honest, there aren't enough hours in the day to cover everything, but I think South Park does a good job covering as much as it can while being a funny show.

Like it was only last week they had ISIS appear on the show outside of a cameo. I really liked it, even though my friends were waiting all of last season for them to get an episode. On reflection, having the boys go into ISIS territory (as many wanted) would've probably just been a retread of the formula the Somalian Pirates episode had. So the show needs to strike a balance of not falling into a rutt, while making fun of many similar issues.

Although that implication wasn't made by those previous posts, I would say that SP DO have an agenda.Not always a bad thing tho.

Out of curiosity, what do you think the agenda is?

 

[Jeopardy Surface]

I really can't see the wrong in MarsAtlas' comments - SP does seem cowardly in their defense of their content. Matt and Troy are obviously biased and it shows in their "targets".

I don't see why one can't disagree with the views of the creators but still find humor. I thought the season premiere was funny - the PC stuff seemed heavy handed at parts tho'.

Most people responding to Mars seem to think Mars':

Is offended at SP.
Wants SP to choose particular targets
Change the content of the show
Or is some sort of SJW(what ever that implies or means is lost on me).

All I got was:
1.SP say they target everyone.
2.They don't.
3.They only say that so we don't call them bias.
4.They do this to avoid backlash.
5.This is artistic cowardice.(C/D?)

I have NO clue what Mars' political leanings have to do with the above 5 points. Is it non-sequitur day?

Eh, it's more people are refuting the one thing Mars continues to zero in on while ignoring pretty much every other instance of SP being gigantic assholes(sometimes literally) to targets. Not to mention, for someone that's "watched everything", you'd think they may have more instances than something from like fifteen years ago. I haven't watched it since middle school and even I understand some of the issues and people they were making fun of now.

True. While the Global Warming thing might be debate-able , saying that SP targets "everyone" is a bit naive. I love the slant they bring to Comedy Central - it is refreshing, but even way back in middle school I could tell they had a bias.

They have the bias of traditional Libertarains (hates big government, freedom for all, etc) but even still, they say they make the effort to attack people on both sides of the aisle.
The issue I took is that from one of earlier posts is the implication that Stone and Parker's political views were proof of them having some sort of agenda they wanted to push.

To be honest, there aren't enough hours in the day to cover everything, but I think South Park does a good job covering as much as it can while being a funny show.

Like it was only last week they had ISIS appear on the show outside of a cameo. I really liked it, even though my friends were waiting all of last season for them to get an episode. On reflection, having the boys go into ISIS territory (as many wanted) would've probably just been a retread of the formula the Somalian Pirates episode had. So the show needs to strike a balance of not falling into a rutt, while making fun of many similar issues.

Although that implication wasn't made by those previous posts, I would say that SP DO have an agenda.Not always a bad thing tho.

Out of curiosity, what do you think the agenda is?

Screw with people they see as dogmatic and uptight, that's my call. I don't think they're as even-handed as they like to claim, but I don't think that adds up to an agenda either, not really. They're just normal people, and they have preferred targets. I don't think that indicates some secret depths of hate and bigotry, but they should stop pretending they're some how magically universal in their satire too.

 

[FriedRicer]

I really can't see the wrong in MarsAtlas' comments - SP does seem cowardly in their defense of their content. Matt and Troy are obviously biased and it shows in their "targets".

I don't see why one can't disagree with the views of the creators but still find humor. I thought the season premiere was funny - the PC stuff seemed heavy handed at parts tho'.

Most people responding to Mars seem to think Mars':

Is offended at SP.
Wants SP to choose particular targets
Change the content of the show
Or is some sort of SJW(what ever that implies or means is lost on me).

All I got was:
1.SP say they target everyone.
2.They don't.
3.They only say that so we don't call them bias.
4.They do this to avoid backlash.
5.This is artistic cowardice.(C/D?)

I have NO clue what Mars' political leanings have to do with the above 5 points. Is it non-sequitur day?

Eh, it's more people are refuting the one thing Mars continues to zero in on while ignoring pretty much every other instance of SP being gigantic assholes(sometimes literally) to targets. Not to mention, for someone that's "watched everything", you'd think they may have more instances than something from like fifteen years ago. I haven't watched it since middle school and even I understand some of the issues and people they were making fun of now.

True. While the Global Warming thing might be debate-able , saying that SP targets "everyone" is a bit naive. I love the slant they bring to Comedy Central - it is refreshing, but even way back in middle school I could tell they had a bias.

They have the bias of traditional Libertarains (hates big government, freedom for all, etc) but even still, they say they make the effort to attack people on both sides of the aisle.
The issue I took is that from one of earlier posts is the implication that Stone and Parker's political views were proof of them having some sort of agenda they wanted to push.

To be honest, there aren't enough hours in the day to cover everything, but I think South Park does a good job covering as much as it can while being a funny show.

Like it was only last week they had ISIS appear on the show outside of a cameo. I really liked it, even though my friends were waiting all of last season for them to get an episode. On reflection, having the boys go into ISIS territory (as many wanted) would've probably just been a retread of the formula the Somalian Pirates episode had. So the show needs to strike a balance of not falling into a rutt, while making fun of many similar issues.

Although that implication wasn't made by those previous posts, I would say that SP DO have an agenda.Not always a bad thing tho.

Out of curiosity, what do you think the agenda is?

Maybe agenda is the wrong word but the show seems to embody alot of GG attitudes toward some topics. Mind, I think this season is the best in a while. PC principal should be a staple imo. I've just never felt that they were a fan of liberalism.

 

[Josh123914]

I really can't see the wrong in MarsAtlas' comments - SP does seem cowardly in their defense of their content. Matt and Troy are obviously biased and it shows in their "targets".

I don't see why one can't disagree with the views of the creators but still find humor. I thought the season premiere was funny - the PC stuff seemed heavy handed at parts tho'.

Most people responding to Mars seem to think Mars':

Is offended at SP.
Wants SP to choose particular targets
Change the content of the show
Or is some sort of SJW(what ever that implies or means is lost on me).

All I got was:
1.SP say they target everyone.
2.They don't.
3.They only say that so we don't call them bias.
4.They do this to avoid backlash.
5.This is artistic cowardice.(C/D?)

I have NO clue what Mars' political leanings have to do with the above 5 points. Is it non-sequitur day?

Eh, it's more people are refuting the one thing Mars continues to zero in on while ignoring pretty much every other instance of SP being gigantic assholes(sometimes literally) to targets. Not to mention, for someone that's "watched everything", you'd think they may have more instances than something from like fifteen years ago. I haven't watched it since middle school and even I understand some of the issues and people they were making fun of now.

True. While the Global Warming thing might be debate-able , saying that SP targets "everyone" is a bit naive. I love the slant they bring to Comedy Central - it is refreshing, but even way back in middle school I could tell they had a bias.

They have the bias of traditional Libertarains (hates big government, freedom for all, etc) but even still, they say they make the effort to attack people on both sides of the aisle.
The issue I took is that from one of earlier posts is the implication that Stone and Parker's political views were proof of them having some sort of agenda they wanted to push.

To be honest, there aren't enough hours in the day to cover everything, but I think South Park does a good job covering as much as it can while being a funny show.

Like it was only last week they had ISIS appear on the show outside of a cameo. I really liked it, even though my friends were waiting all of last season for them to get an episode. On reflection, having the boys go into ISIS territory (as many wanted) would've probably just been a retread of the formula the Somalian Pirates episode had. So the show needs to strike a balance of not falling into a rutt, while making fun of many similar issues.

Although that implication wasn't made by those previous posts, I would say that SP DO have an agenda.Not always a bad thing tho.

Out of curiosity, what do you think the agenda is?

Maybe agenda is the wrong word but the show seems to embody alot of GG attitudes toward some topics. Mind, I think this season is the best in a while. PC principal should be a staple imo. I've just never felt that they were a fan of liberalism.

They have said they're Libertarians, so that certainly means they dislike authoritarians.

I think this whole season is basically them making fun of people that try to tell them (or others) what to think or do.

 

[Schadrach]

I believe you mean the Mexican Staring Frog of Southern Sri Lanka, racist!! J/K

WEEOOW! WEEOOW! WEEOOW!

Did you read what you just wrote? Don't yuo know the right term is the "Latin American Staring Frog Who Is An Undocumented Immigrant From Southern Sri Lanka", racist? Freaking bigots in this forum...

Do you even PC, bro?

Honestly what bugged me was the shifting focus towards Randy, and the newer graphic style that made all the gore look...semi-photo real I guess you could call it, and giving them fingers. And the loss of Officer Barbrady and Mr. Slave, those two were utter cards. South Park's politics either go over my head or I find myself not caring since they're funny.

Prediction: Randy's an ad. "Ha-ha, the ads got me" indeed. =p

More seriously, they seem to be using a mix of Blade Runner and They Live running backwards (all the PC Bros wear identical Oakleys).

Maybe agenda is the wrong word but the show seems to embody alot of GG attitudes toward some topics. Mind, I think this season is the best in a while. PC principal should be a staple imo. I've just never felt that they were a fan of liberalism.

Liberalism or progressiveness? I'd argue that they tend to have a liberal and libertine slant, but not a progressive one. I'd like to mirror a previous poster and say I think they like to target the uptight, the self righteous, authoritarians, and the dogmatic.

 

[Breakdown]

I think this season of South Park is better than it has been for years.

On the topic of Matt Stone and Trey Parker's motives, this thread seems a little light on any actual evidence like quotes or links to interviews or that sort of thing. I just looked at Wikipedia and found this quote -

Stone and Parker have explained that their drive to lampoon a given target comes first from the target's insistence on telling other people how to behave. The duo explains that they perceive liberals as having both delusions of entitlement to remain free from satire, and a propensity to enforce political correctness while patronizing the citizens of Middle America.

So it appears from my minute or so reading the South Park Wikipedia entry that they're not equal opportunity offenders in the sense of setting out with the attention to offend everybody. They clearly have their own personal bias, but when have they ever been dishonest or cowardly about it?

 

[PsychicTaco115]

So yeah, that new episode took things in a different direction

 

[Zontar]

So yeah, that new episode took things in a different direction

I know, isn't it great? It was a pretty good opening for this season's trilogy finale.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

So yeah, that new episode took things in a different direction

Not really, it's just building up what they've been doing all season. It is really good though.

snip

They're still equal opportunity offenders.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

-Snip-

I think the point that you're missing, the one that MarsAtlas is trying to make here, is that "the funniest joke" is decided by what the creators think is funniest, not what everyone in the whole world thinks is funniest. That's a subjective thing, it depends on what Matt and Trey think are the funniest jokes to put in the show, that subjective state is colored by their experiences and values. Noting more nothing less.

For example, this seasons they're leaning hard on using Caitlyn Jenner for the "ugly tranny" joke, which some people find hilarious. Ask any group of trans folk, and you'll find that we say; the stereotypes it uses to be complete myths, that the joke it self is totally unfunny and insulting, plus each time it's redone it just gets more tired, unfunny, and insulting. It's like the typical gay joke, it's tries to rely on "it's funny because it's true", when it's in fact neither funny, or true. That's the kind of thing that makes jokes subjective. They depend on experience, values, and really how common the joke is. A lot of jokes are specifically funny because they're based on untrue stereotypes, but it takes time for the targeted group to get over said jokes, so that said jokes can become funny to them too. I.E. When the majority of the general public stops believing that a particular stereotype is actually true.

Still no joke is universally funny, because it's subjective. Arguing against subjective tastes is an exercise in futility.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

-Snip-

I think the point that you're missing, the one that MarsAtlas is trying to make here, is that "the funniest joke" is decided by what the creators think is funniest, not what everyone in the whole world thinks is funniest.

Actually no, they're making a tv show for a mass audience, not a private viewing for their buddies. Presumably they stick with characters and themes that have made them tens of millions, with a relatively conservative pace of fundamental change. It took them a long time just to move on from mostly scatological humor.

But yeah, sure, nitpick comedy because for 22 minutes a week they don't check all of the boxes you want.

Actually yes, they're making a TV show, which happens to be filled with jokes they find funny. I find most of their jokes funny, but some miss the mark, most people are like that. Saying anything else is possible is particularly ludicrous, because not everyone finds every joke funny. They have mass market appeal, that's because they have an audience for their humor, that doesn't mean they always hit the mark. Still they even said in their documentary of making an episode of South Park that the jokes they pick are the ones that they find funny! A lot of other people find those jokes funny too, that doesn't mean that some of their jokes aren't off color, insulting, or just plain miss the mark. Sometimes to a lot of people.

Also part of criticizing something is nitpicking, because there are bound to be things that someone dislikes in any thing. A critique, or in this case a nitpick about something I don't like that they did, does not mean that I hate South Park, in fact it's basically my favorite comedy series. That doesn't mean I can't say that; I think the over used "ugly tranny" joke they've been using this season is played out, stupid, untrue, and insulting. It also doesn't mean that I can't say that I feel that season feels really phoned in, that it feels like Matt and Trey are basically over South Park and want to move on to something new, or possibly retire. Because I feel that both are true, if you disagree that's fine, because these feelings are subjective. Just like humor is.

 

[Mazinger-Z]

-Snip-

I think the point that you're missing, the one that MarsAtlas is trying to make here, is that "the funniest joke" is decided by what the creators think is funniest, not what everyone in the whole world thinks is funniest.

Actually no, they're making a tv show for a mass audience, not a private viewing for their buddies. Presumably they stick with characters and themes that have made them tens of millions, with a relatively conservative pace of fundamental change. It took them a long time just to move on from mostly scatological humor.

But yeah, sure, nitpick comedy because for 22 minutes a week they don't check all of the boxes you want.

I find it amazing that there are people on the social medias who get bent out of shape because a comedian or a sitcom did something they didn't like or didn't find funny. You just want to say to them "Get over yourself." The comedian or show is successful, despite of not appealing to your sense of humor, but those people want to say to the people supporting it "This is problematic and let me tell you why" as if your explanation will somehow undo the subtle workings of what comedy is, what elicits a kneejerk laugh from others. I guess it falls in line with the thought process of Original Sin.

"If you laugh at this problematic thing, you are clearly sinful, allow me to cleanse your sin and your mind as I read from my good book" seems to be the order of the day for these Twitter warriors.

Never mind the fact that, in this particular instance, this season has been heralded as a resurgence of the shows appeal (for some inexplicable reason, right?)

In honor of those social media Twitter getting bent out of shape about the South Park season, I shall dig out my old Bill Cosby CDs and have a laugh to fill the void they left.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I find it amazing that there are people on the social medias who get bent out of shape because a comedian or a sitcom did something they didn't like or didn't find funny. You just want to say to them "Get over yourself." The comedian or show is successful, despite of not appealing to your sense of humor, but those people want to say to the people supporting it "This is problematic and let me tell you why" as if your explanation will somehow undo the subtle workings of what comedy is, what elicits a kneejerk laugh from others. I guess it falls in line with the thought process of Original Sin.

"If you laugh at this problematic thing, you are clearly sinful, allow me to cleanse your sin and your mind as I read from my good book" seems to be the order of the day for these Twitter warriors.

Never mind the fact that, in this particular instance, this season has been heralded as a resurgence of the shows appeal (for some inexplicable reason, right?)

In honor of those social media Twitter getting bent out of shape about the South Park season, I shall dig out my old Bill Cosby CDs and have a laugh to fill the void they left.

The point that should be made here is one can disagree, or even hate a specific joke, without hating the comedian, or comedy show said joke came from. The "I'm offended." "Well get over your self." kinda falls flat when comedy takes potshots at already maligned groups consistently to alienate said group further. That's a valid criticism. Because not all jokes are good natured and not all jokes are harmless. At any rate Matt and Trey are big boys, if what was being said here upset them they could hop on and defend themselves, but as stated before, they're big boys and they can handle criticism.

 

[Groxnax]

So yeah, that new episode took things in a different direction

I know, isn't it great? It was a pretty good opening for this season's trilogy finale.

Wow, now that was an interesting episode.

I thought Cartman was going to start the PC downfall but way to go Jimmy.

But it is going to be one crazy ride this season.

LOL.

 

[EternallyBored]

So yeah, that new episode took things in a different direction

Definitely not where I expected them to go with it, I am glad they brought back principal Vicotria, I was worried they were just going to write her out of the show like mrs. Crabtree or chokesondick. I'm also happy with how they used Jimmy, in a season focusing on PC, it would be criminal to underutilize a funny character like him. No clue where they are going with the whole ad thing though.

The season itself has been alright so far, the new focus on continuity brings them ever closer to their own criticism of disappearing up their ass with their own messages, but something needed to be done to shake up the formula in a show that's been running for over a decade. I'm still not sure how I feel about the show seeming to ignore the main 4 kid characters in favor of the adults, mainly randy, who feels more and more like an author pet character and is starting to feel overused.

There's a couple of running gags this season that are wearing a little thin too, the Kaitlin Jenner running people over in her car bit was funny the first time, now it seems like they are using that bit every time she comes on screen, unless they subvert it in an upcoming episode, it feels like wasted air time, although garrison as a Trump knockoff is at least being used to entertaining effect.

Still, the ninja, yaoi, and Yelp episodes are my favorite this season, the safe space episode was a little preachy, but the end with the speech and having poor African kids clear out negative internet comments for Americans was a funny finish. PC principal has his moments, and the revelation from last episode could help him be more than just a one dimensional joke character; I'm starting to like him more than randy this season, who seems to be getting flanderized to the point of being annoyingly stupid rather than entertainingly stupid. I also hope the no speech rule for Kyle gets a satisfying payoff, he tends to get used as an author mouthpiece at times, but I'm hoping there's some kind of blowup from him by the finale, he deserves it after getting kind of sidelined by all the other characters this season, Kenny too for all the shit he's been through, I have a feeling SoDaSoPa is going to get wrecked by the finale.

 

[Redryhno]

I find it amazing that there are people on the social medias who get bent out of shape because a comedian or a sitcom did something they didn't like or didn't find funny. You just want to say to them "Get over yourself." The comedian or show is successful, despite of not appealing to your sense of humor, but those people want to say to the people supporting it "This is problematic and let me tell you why" as if your explanation will somehow undo the subtle workings of what comedy is, what elicits a kneejerk laugh from others. I guess it falls in line with the thought process of Original Sin.

"If you laugh at this problematic thing, you are clearly sinful, allow me to cleanse your sin and your mind as I read from my good book" seems to be the order of the day for these Twitter warriors.

Never mind the fact that, in this particular instance, this season has been heralded as a resurgence of the shows appeal (for some inexplicable reason, right?)

In honor of those social media Twitter getting bent out of shape about the South Park season, I shall dig out my old Bill Cosby CDs and have a laugh to fill the void they left.

The point that should be made here is one can disagree, or even hate a specific joke, without hating the comedian, or comedy show said joke came from. The "I'm offended." "Well get over your self." kinda falls flat when comedy takes potshots at already maligned groups consistently to alienate said group further. That's a valid criticism. Because not all jokes are good natured and not all jokes are harmless. At any rate Matt and Trey are big boys, if what was being said here upset them they could hop on and defend themselves, but as stated before, they're big boys and they can handle criticism.

Dude, it's South Park, the capital of irreverence at this current time in the Realm of [s/]Madness[/s] Comedy. If you're feeling offended yourself or for some maligned group, congrats, you are now allowed into the club that everyone else has gotten in already. There's not a single person who's ever watched SP that HASN'T felt offended even the slightest bit at some point.

Not all jokes need to be good-natured or harmless, because it's mostly what the audience takes from it. You can say that they're making fun of trans people with Jenner, or you could take it that they're saying that Bruce didn't transition well into Caitlyn as well as people have said(and even then, a large number of people claiming to be trans have since done nothing but malign her because of not conforming to their values and she's just a gender traitor or something equally stupid).

You can say the joke is outdated and offensive, but guess what? South Park's main gimmick is old and about being offensive by making fun of as much real life silliness as possible, and it's been chugging along pretty steadily for 20 years, so there's SOMETHING there that isn't just because of some kind of -phobia or hate that keeps people coming back. And hell, she seems to be more a hit-and-running gimmick than a trans joke.

 

[FriedRicer]

No. What I'm saying it that the "equal opportunity offender" line is some class-A doublespeak for the capitalistic comedian. Its having your cake and eating it too. They want to apologize for anybody who was offended and wants them to keep watching the show without looking like they caved in on any given issue and lose face for going back on what they said because it upset somebody. That is dishonesty, and furthermore they think that we'll believe it. Its really not hard to understand a distaste for being lied to.

Pardon my french but that's just cynical bullshit. "Equal opportunity offender" means "if you're offended you're not special, next week it'll be someone else and someone else the week after that."

I personally don't tell rape jokes, because I don't think I'm funny enough to make them work. That doesn't mean I'm against the telling of rape jokes though, I still believe that when it comes to comedy, nothing is off limits. In the same way just because they haven't made fun of Sandy Hook doesn't mean make them hypocrites or dishonest.

You're imagining an apology (although a false one) where there isn't one, you're imagining a concern for their audience straying where there isn't one. You are pushing false motivations onto a very simple concept that almost every comedian agrees with.

All I got was:
1.SP say they target everyone.
2.They don't.
3.They only say that so we don't call them bias.
4.They do this to avoid backlash.
5.This is artistic cowardice.(C/D?)

It's not true though is it. They say that nothing is off limits, not that they target everyone. To target everyone would require them to put out thousands of episodes a day until the end of time. Tis a silly expectation and one they have never claimed to meet.

The only way you could call them artistic cowards is if you know there are subjects they wont touch because they personally think they are sacred, which you don't, so you can't.

Hell I even remember reading in an interview them saying something along the lines of "we hate Conservatives, but we REALLY hate Democrats." That doesn't seem like the kind of thing a person who doesn't want to be called biased would say.

The bullet points were a summation of Mars' statements as I saw them.
I don't expect them to get every target that exists - that is silly. That's why no one argued for that.
I do think they avoid certain points of views on certain topics.
"Nothing is off limits" is kind of a worthless statement if you hold a bias - right?

 

[toonbro13]

south parks always been wierd have you never seen eps like grounded vindaloop or major boobage?