Is the Insanity Plea a legitimate defense?

[RJ Dalton]

The insanity plea doesn't mean you get off scott-free. It means instead of going to prison to be raped by hairy men with long pent-up sexual frustrations, you go to a mental institution where they inject you with chemicals and talk at you in hopes of changing your behavior. Given the way these institutions work, the insanity plea can be just as bad, if not worse, than a full on prison sentence. At least there's a chance of getting out of prison.

 

[Kopikatsu]

The insanity plea doesn't mean you get off scott-free. It means instead of going to prison to be raped by hairy men with long pent-up sexual frustrations, you go to a mental institution where they inject you with chemicals and talk at you in hopes of changing your behavior. Given the way these institutions work, the insanity plea can be just as bad, if not worse, than a full on prison sentence. At least there's a chance of getting out of prison.

There's also the fact that anything you do (Including acting normally and claiming that you're 'cured') will be construed as being part of your psychosis. Which goes back to the 'You will never leave this place alive' thing.

 

[Patrick Buck]

I don't really think it matters, as long a he's kept away from the public. And not allowed to do as he wants, thats punishment enough. Being trapped, with insane people, under constant watch is enough to make you paranoid, or even crazy. So the end result will be the same....

 

[fenrizz]

It's not a defense at all. Even if somebody is insane, they should still be placed into some sort of institution, because fact is, they are a serious and obvious danger... Even though Scandinavian prisons are like holiday resorts.

Do you really think that the courts just lets them go if they are insane?

They don't.
They place them, as you wished, in a mental institution.

The Norwegian, and wider Scandinavian, prisons are all about reforming the prisoners so they can get out and contribute to society again after they have served their sentence.

That means that they must be in an environment that is not severely disconnected from society.
It also means that they will be able to get educated, eat properly and are treated with respect and dignity.

Treating people like monsters only serves to create monsters.

Look at the statistics.
Norway has a 20% relapse rate after 2 years.
US and UK has around 50-60%.

 

[S_SienZ]

People are also not realising that defences in law have varying degrees. Insanity is only a partial defence, as shown in this case where he still has to go to a psyche ward instead of prison. Self defence on the other hand, is a complete defence and you're fine. Just because you still have to be penalised doesn't mean it's not a defence.

 

[Exerzet]

Insanity is never a defence. Ever. The dead are no less dead, the damage no lesser if the perpetrator was insane, or just as sane as you or I, so why should the punishment be affected at all?

Punishment should fit the crime, not the criminal.

 

[Darkasassin96]

If hes insane he has no place in society and is just eating money. SAme for prisons. If you are put in prison for life without possibility of parrol i dont think thats a very good sentence just kill the asshole adn be done wiht it. Also if you sentence someone to death kill him quickly and be done with it. Dont drag it out. Heres what a judge should say,"you have been found guilty of homocidal child molestation and rape, sentence death. What size Noose are you." Gaurd brings out noose prisoner walks up and thats teh en dof it.

And i know this is fiction but i think it fits quite well. Joker has filled several hundred graveyards in his time as a psychotic murderer and after 20 years of putting him in psych wards he has no change. Insanity is no excuse for what youve done.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

basically, its between prison:
-a place where criminals are locked up with dangerous people to rehabilitate them so they can go back to being normal people in society
or psych hospital:
-a place where people with mental disorders are treated so they can become normal people in society

do you really think putting a violent person who may not even know what the fuck is going on in the real world with other violent people will help?
or do you think letting him be medically treated would be better.

People should research the legal/prison system in Norway before they say anything about this. The American prison system is much about retribution, whereas Norwegian is about rehabilitation. The Norwegian prisons are luxurious compared to the US prison. Look, here's a picture of a Norwegian prison 'cell':

The inmates study, they have access to internet, they execrise hobbies. It's basically a supervised motel that you can't get out of whenever you want.

There is no life-sentence in Norway, the max determinate penalty is 21 years in prison and only a very small fraction spend that. The maximum sentence for "crimes against humanity" is 30 years. Prisoners usually get unsupervised parole on weekends and such after serving about a third of their sentence. There is a possibility of serving a lifetime in prison with "Containment", which is set for the standard 21 years, but can be prolonged if the prisoner in question is still considered dangerous. However, they could be released, either from prison entirely or just on parole, after 10 years of serving the sentence if they are no longer considered a danger to society.

Psychiatric Ward however ensures that he'll be there for his lifetime. To people who go "they should just let him rot in jail for the rest of his life!", if you're that hell-bent on revenge and retribution, this solution should actually be preferable to you.

i saw those prisons on cracked.com
dont they work better because less people go back there after parole?

and if you get sent to psychiatric hospital, you don't go for life no parole, you're there until the doctors deem you healthy enough to function like a normal person, assuming they do, usually by prescribing therapy, meds, all while you're in there, then probably therapy and pill-taking when you get out.

 

[lacktheknack]

If hes insane he has no place in society and is just eating money. SAme for prisons. If you are put in prison for life without possibility of parrol i dont think thats a very good sentence just kill the asshole adn be done wiht it. Also if you sentence someone to death kill him quickly and be done with it. Dont drag it out. Heres what a judge should say,"you have been found guilty of homocidal child molestation and rape, sentence death. What size Noose are you." Gaurd brings out noose prisoner walks up and thats teh en dof it.

And i know this is fiction but i think it fits quite well. Joker has filled several hundred graveyards in his time as a psychotic murderer and after 20 years of putting him in psych wards he has no change. Insanity is no excuse for what youve done.

...Except that we've found that an impending death sentence triples the chance of the defendant pleading "not guilty", and much more money than you'd ever expect is wasted in proving him guilty. More money, in fact, than it takes to keep someone alive in prison for fifty years.

Also, you're right, it's fiction. IRL, the Joker would have been locked up once and would have STAYED locked up. Mental institutions are not easy to escape, they're even harder than prison in many cases.

 

[dogenzakaminion]

Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a rampage in Norway last July, isn't going to

jail. A mental evaluation found he inhabited a ''delusional universe'' and was ''psychotic'' at

the time of the attacks. He is now going to stay in a Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of

his life. What do you guys think about this? Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the

prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward? Or in that case, what do you think

we, as a race, should do with people who were "delusional" or "psychotic" during the time of a

murder or an attack?

I don't know how familiar you are with Norwegian jails, but a psych ward is worse. He will still be locked in a cell, probably for the rest of his life, the only difference being he will get medication and different therapy. Oh, and none of the nice little perks people in normal jail get, like tv and internet.

Regarding his psychosis, he still intended to kill those people. He planned this thing for a long time and regardless of his mental state at the time of the attack, he was planning on murdering teenagers. The reasons for why he thought he should might be fantasy, but his intent wasn't.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Prisons aren't designed to deal with people with serious and extreme mental illness like that guy. (It's arguable that they aren't really designed to deal with sane people either, but insane people less so) The guards aren't trained psychiatrists. At a high security mental institution, like this man is likely to go to, he has a much lower chance of escape and of injuring others. At this point, with a life sentence, those are the two things you're aiming at. Justice may or may not be done, but at least this monster is off the streets and can't hurt anyone anymore.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

Are you forgetting the kind of jails they have in Norway? They're focused on rehabilitation, not retribution as in the US, and so are quite comfortable.

And, yes, I believe insanity should be a valid defense in certain instances.

 

[Darkasassin96]

If hes insane he has no place in society and is just eating money. SAme for prisons. If you are put in prison for life without possibility of parrol i dont think thats a very good sentence just kill the asshole adn be done wiht it. Also if you sentence someone to death kill him quickly and be done with it. Dont drag it out. Heres what a judge should say,"you have been found guilty of homocidal child molestation and rape, sentence death. What size Noose are you." Gaurd brings out noose prisoner walks up and thats teh en dof it.

And i know this is fiction but i think it fits quite well. Joker has filled several hundred graveyards in his time as a psychotic murderer and after 20 years of putting him in psych wards he has no change. Insanity is no excuse for what youve done.

...Except that we've found that an impending death sentence triples the chance of the defendant pleading "not guilty", and much more money than you'd ever expect is wasted in proving him guilty. More money, in fact, than it takes to keep someone alive in prison for fifty years.

Also, you're right, it's fiction. IRL, the Joker would have been locked up once and would have STAYED locked up. Mental institutions are not easy to escape, they're even harder than prison in many cases.

Do we need said insane person to say there guilty or said psychotic serial homocidal child molesting rapist. Its abou tth evidence and if hes already been found guilty then we cant tri him again. And if the joker were real wiht his kind of connections and an asylum like arkham with more holes than a sponge then he wouldnt have been sentenced there again he would have just been killed insane or not.

 

[conflictofinterests]

If hes insane he has no place in society and is just eating money. SAme for prisons. If you are put in prison for life without possibility of parrol i dont think thats a very good sentence just kill the asshole adn be done wiht it. Also if you sentence someone to death kill him quickly and be done with it. Dont drag it out. Heres what a judge should say,"you have been found guilty of homocidal child molestation and rape, sentence death. What size Noose are you." Gaurd brings out noose prisoner walks up and thats teh en dof it.

And i know this is fiction but i think it fits quite well. Joker has filled several hundred graveyards in his time as a psychotic murderer and after 20 years of putting him in psych wards he has no change. Insanity is no excuse for what youve done.

...Except that we've found that an impending death sentence triples the chance of the defendant pleading "not guilty", and much more money than you'd ever expect is wasted in proving him guilty. More money, in fact, than it takes to keep someone alive in prison for fifty years.

Also, you're right, it's fiction. IRL, the Joker would have been locked up once and would have STAYED locked up. Mental institutions are not easy to escape, they're even harder than prison in many cases.

Not to even MENTION mistrials. I'm of the firm belief that it's better to feed 100 murderers for the rest of their lives than execute a single innocent person.

 

[cdstephens]

Insanity pleas is a legitimate defense because some people are in fact mentally unstable and can be treated to get better. Plus, putting a mentally unstable and violent person in prison would only make prison worse...

 

[Danny Ocean]

This is definitely the way forward.

He's no longer a danger to society.

He's in no danger from the other inmates, or himself, because it's high-sec.

There's a distinct possibility he'll be made to see the true evil he's done, in which case he'll be living, in a small concrete box, unable to die, unable to do anything other than think about what he's done, for the rest of his long life.

To be honest, that's a much worse punishment than just killing him and making him a martyr. Even those stupid revenge-nuts should be able to see that.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Unless the person who is making the plea starts eating his own hand and manages to rip off a good chunk of his own arm off, I don't believe that insanity should give these criminals an insanity plea.

They may not be really insane, but at least they would have gone through a lot of pain and be missing a good chunk of their own arm for the rest of his life.

 

[Torrasque]

As with most things, movies embellish the "my client is insane" plea to ridiculous proportions.

Not to mention, they tend to take the chances of a jury going for it to ridiculous ends.

At least, with regard to the US legal system. We're pretty biased against crazies, so saying "I'm crazy" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card, even if true. Hell, it's not even a "get into a mental ward instead of jail" card.

The US goes to some pretty crazy ends to make damn sure that the person is crazy, and stays crazy.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Also, you're right, it's fiction. IRL, the Joker would have been locked up once and would have STAYED locked up. Mental institutions are not easy to escape, they're even harder than prison in many cases.

Exactly. And he'd be so heavily drugged (most likely) that he would not be able to form enough cognitive thought to move a finger. IRL, he wouldn't get out on his own.

And let's say that he DID get out (let's say that HarleyQuinn still falls for him). ...He's not going back to the ward. The cops would not take him in alive, I can guarantee it.

Not to even MENTION mistrials. I'm of the firm belief that it's better to feed 100 murderers for the rest of their lives than execute a single innocent person.

This too. For anyone who thinks this view is stupid, imagine if you were the innocent person. ...Yeah, it would suck royal ass, wouldn't it?

 

[geier]

Did anyone of you read his "book" (2083: A European Declaration of Independence)?
I have, and belive me, he is nuts.
And:

He was indicated insane, not temporally insane. He`s going to the loony bin and never coming out again. There is no difference between this and throuwing him into jail to "let him rot there".