Is the Insanity Plea a legitimate defense?
- Thread starter Beefy_Nugglet
- Start date
If hes insane he has no place in society and is just eating money. SAme for prisons. If you are put in prison for life without possibility of parrol i dont think thats a very good sentence just kill the asshole adn be done wiht it. Also if you sentence someone to death kill him quickly and be done with it. Dont drag it out. Heres what a judge should say,"you have been found guilty of homocidal child molestation and rape, sentence death. What size Noose are you." Gaurd brings out noose prisoner walks up and thats teh en dof it.
And i know this is fiction but i think it fits quite well. Joker has filled several hundred graveyards in his time as a psychotic murderer and after 20 years of putting him in psych wards he has no change. Insanity is no excuse for what youve done.
And i know this is fiction but i think it fits quite well. Joker has filled several hundred graveyards in his time as a psychotic murderer and after 20 years of putting him in psych wards he has no change. Insanity is no excuse for what youve done.
basically, its between prison:
-a place where criminals are locked up with dangerous people to rehabilitate them so they can go back to being normal people in society
or psych hospital:
-a place where people with mental disorders are treated so they can become normal people in society
do you really think putting a violent person who may not even know what the fuck is going on in the real world with other violent people will help?
or do you think letting him be medically treated would be better.
dont they work better because less people go back there after parole?
and if you get sent to psychiatric hospital, you don't go for life no parole, you're there until the doctors deem you healthy enough to function like a normal person, assuming they do, usually by prescribing therapy, meds, all while you're in there, then probably therapy and pill-taking when you get out.
-a place where criminals are locked up with dangerous people to rehabilitate them so they can go back to being normal people in society
or psych hospital:
-a place where people with mental disorders are treated so they can become normal people in society
do you really think putting a violent person who may not even know what the fuck is going on in the real world with other violent people will help?
or do you think letting him be medically treated would be better.
i saw those prisons on cracked.comWuggy said:People should research the legal/prison system in Norway before they say anything about this. The American prison system is much about retribution, whereas Norwegian is about rehabilitation. The Norwegian prisons are luxurious compared to the US prison. Look, here's a picture of a Norwegian prison 'cell':
The inmates study, they have access to internet, they execrise hobbies. It's basically a supervised motel that you can't get out of whenever you want.
There is no life-sentence in Norway, the max determinate penalty is 21 years in prison and only a very small fraction spend that. The maximum sentence for "crimes against humanity" is 30 years. Prisoners usually get unsupervised parole on weekends and such after serving about a third of their sentence. There is a possibility of serving a lifetime in prison with "Containment", which is set for the standard 21 years, but can be prolonged if the prisoner in question is still considered dangerous. However, they could be released, either from prison entirely or just on parole, after 10 years of serving the sentence if they are no longer considered a danger to society.
Psychiatric Ward however ensures that he'll be there for his lifetime. To people who go "they should just let him rot in jail for the rest of his life!", if you're that hell-bent on revenge and retribution, this solution should actually be preferable to you.
dont they work better because less people go back there after parole?
and if you get sent to psychiatric hospital, you don't go for life no parole, you're there until the doctors deem you healthy enough to function like a normal person, assuming they do, usually by prescribing therapy, meds, all while you're in there, then probably therapy and pill-taking when you get out.
...Except that we've found that an impending death sentence triples the chance of the defendant pleading "not guilty", and much more money than you'd ever expect is wasted in proving him guilty. More money, in fact, than it takes to keep someone alive in prison for fifty years.Darkasassin96 said:
Also, you're right, it's fiction. IRL, the Joker would have been locked up once and would have STAYED locked up. Mental institutions are not easy to escape, they're even harder than prison in many cases.
I don't know how familiar you are with Norwegian jails, but a psych ward is worse. He will still be locked in a cell, probably for the rest of his life, the only difference being he will get medication and different therapy. Oh, and none of the nice little perks people in normal jail get, like tv and internet.Beefy_Nugglet said:
Regarding his psychosis, he still intended to kill those people. He planned this thing for a long time and regardless of his mental state at the time of the attack, he was planning on murdering teenagers. The reasons for why he thought he should might be fantasy, but his intent wasn't.
Prisons aren't designed to deal with people with serious and extreme mental illness like that guy. (It's arguable that they aren't really designed to deal with sane people either, but insane people less so) The guards aren't trained psychiatrists. At a high security mental institution, like this man is likely to go to, he has a much lower chance of escape and of injuring others. At this point, with a life sentence, those are the two things you're aiming at. Justice may or may not be done, but at least this monster is off the streets and can't hurt anyone anymore.
Are you forgetting the kind of jails they have in Norway? They're focused on rehabilitation, not retribution as in the US, and so are quite comfortable.
And, yes, I believe insanity should be a valid defense in certain instances.
And, yes, I believe insanity should be a valid defense in certain instances.
Do we need said insane person to say there guilty or said psychotic serial homocidal child molesting rapist. Its abou tth evidence and if hes already been found guilty then we cant tri him again. And if the joker were real wiht his kind of connections and an asylum like arkham with more holes than a sponge then he wouldnt have been sentenced there again he would have just been killed insane or not.lacktheknack said:
Not to even MENTION mistrials. I'm of the firm belief that it's better to feed 100 murderers for the rest of their lives than execute a single innocent person.lacktheknack said:
Insanity pleas is a legitimate defense because some people are in fact mentally unstable and can be treated to get better. Plus, putting a mentally unstable and violent person in prison would only make prison worse...
This is definitely the way forward.
He's no longer a danger to society.
He's in no danger from the other inmates, or himself, because it's high-sec.
There's a distinct possibility he'll be made to see the true evil he's done, in which case he'll be living, in a small concrete box, unable to die, unable to do anything other than think about what he's done, for the rest of his long life.
To be honest, that's a much worse punishment than just killing him and making him a martyr. Even those stupid revenge-nuts should be able to see that.
He's no longer a danger to society.
He's in no danger from the other inmates, or himself, because it's high-sec.
There's a distinct possibility he'll be made to see the true evil he's done, in which case he'll be living, in a small concrete box, unable to die, unable to do anything other than think about what he's done, for the rest of his long life.
To be honest, that's a much worse punishment than just killing him and making him a martyr. Even those stupid revenge-nuts should be able to see that.
Unless the person who is making the plea starts eating his own hand and manages to rip off a good chunk of his own arm off, I don't believe that insanity should give these criminals an insanity plea.
They may not be really insane, but at least they would have gone through a lot of pain and be missing a good chunk of their own arm for the rest of his life.
They may not be really insane, but at least they would have gone through a lot of pain and be missing a good chunk of their own arm for the rest of his life.
Exactly. And he'd be so heavily drugged (most likely) that he would not be able to form enough cognitive thought to move a finger. IRL, he wouldn't get out on his own.lacktheknack said:
And let's say that he DID get out (let's say that HarleyQuinn still falls for him). ...He's not going back to the ward. The cops would not take him in alive, I can guarantee it.
This too. For anyone who thinks this view is stupid, imagine if you were the innocent person. ...Yeah, it would suck royal ass, wouldn't it?conflictofinterests said:
Did anyone of you read his "book" (2083: A European Declaration of Independence)?
I have, and belive me, he is nuts.
And:
He was indicated insane, not temporally insane. He`s going to the loony bin and never coming out again. There is no difference between this and throuwing him into jail to "let him rot there".
I have, and belive me, he is nuts.
And:
He was indicated insane, not temporally insane. He`s going to the loony bin and never coming out again. There is no difference between this and throuwing him into jail to "let him rot there".
I love in these discussions how the death penalty comes up. When are people going to workout that by killing someone off you are letting them off easy. Why, becuase I would rather have them be given time to realise what they have done and that have to wallow in it for the rest of their life in a setting that does not give them much stimulation to think about anything else. Now that's suffering.
I suppose most people who advocate the death penalty, believe that the offender will get their just desserts in the after life. In which case if their is a higher power who is going give out this punishment, why does it need our help in speeding the guilty along to their punishment. If the higher power is that powerful, it can speed the person along to final judgement, without us having to get blood on our hands.
On the OT: In principle insanity is a legitimate defence, like in the case where you have been given a hallucinogen which makes you think everyone you meet is a zombie. In the strictest sense the murders would have not been from you having murderous intent, but becuase you thought you were defending yourself from zombies.
I do think it is used to much. Even for people with minor illnesses which in others does not lead to murder. In this case of the Norway killer, he has been diagnosed with something that many can suffer from without commuting murders, hence it does not seem like a cast iron mitigating defence.
I do support criminals getting treatment for mental illness that stops them realising and feeling guilty about what they did. This is not becuase I am soft on them. It is as I said above becuase I want them to realise what they have done and then have to live with it. Who said all those who do not support the death penalty are a soft touch....
I suppose most people who advocate the death penalty, believe that the offender will get their just desserts in the after life. In which case if their is a higher power who is going give out this punishment, why does it need our help in speeding the guilty along to their punishment. If the higher power is that powerful, it can speed the person along to final judgement, without us having to get blood on our hands.
On the OT: In principle insanity is a legitimate defence, like in the case where you have been given a hallucinogen which makes you think everyone you meet is a zombie. In the strictest sense the murders would have not been from you having murderous intent, but becuase you thought you were defending yourself from zombies.
I do think it is used to much. Even for people with minor illnesses which in others does not lead to murder. In this case of the Norway killer, he has been diagnosed with something that many can suffer from without commuting murders, hence it does not seem like a cast iron mitigating defence.
I do support criminals getting treatment for mental illness that stops them realising and feeling guilty about what they did. This is not becuase I am soft on them. It is as I said above becuase I want them to realise what they have done and then have to live with it. Who said all those who do not support the death penalty are a soft touch....
Ech... this is a tricky one.
To sum up my thoughts on the matter, I do belive that crimes commited by mentaly unstable people should be treated differently, be it temporary or chronic disorders. But it shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card. In Brevik's case, I can belive that he's more nuts than a squirrel's nest just before winter and should spend the rest of his life or at the very least a very long time in a mental institution.
The one question that bugs me is, what if Brevik gets better? Let's say 10 years from now, they manage to fix him. What then? (I'm aware that curing mental illnesses is more complicated than just "fixing it", I'm simplifying for the sake of argument) Do we keep him in a mental institution even though he would otherwise be ready to resume a normal life? Do we toss him in jail? Do we let him go?
To sum up my thoughts on the matter, I do belive that crimes commited by mentaly unstable people should be treated differently, be it temporary or chronic disorders. But it shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card. In Brevik's case, I can belive that he's more nuts than a squirrel's nest just before winter and should spend the rest of his life or at the very least a very long time in a mental institution.
The one question that bugs me is, what if Brevik gets better? Let's say 10 years from now, they manage to fix him. What then? (I'm aware that curing mental illnesses is more complicated than just "fixing it", I'm simplifying for the sake of argument) Do we keep him in a mental institution even though he would otherwise be ready to resume a normal life? Do we toss him in jail? Do we let him go?
Hmm, I do see it as rather worrying that my school uses those exact same chairs.Wuggy said:People should research the legal/prison system in Norway before they say anything about this. The American prison system is much about retribution, whereas Norwegian is about rehabilitation. The Norwegian prisons are luxurious compared to the US prison. Look, here's a picture of a Norwegian prison 'cell':
The inmates study, they have access to internet, they execrise hobbies. It's basically a supervised motel that you can't get out of whenever you want.
There is no life-sentence in Norway, the max determinate penalty is 21 years in prison and only a very small fraction spend that. The maximum sentence for "crimes against humanity" is 30 years. Prisoners usually get unsupervised parole on weekends and such after serving about a third of their sentence. There is a possibility of serving a lifetime in prison with "Containment", which is set for the standard 21 years, but can be prolonged if the prisoner in question is still considered dangerous. However, they could be released, either from prison entirely or just on parole, after 10 years of serving the sentence if they are no longer considered a danger to society.
Psychiatric Ward however ensures that he'll be there for his lifetime. To people who go "they should just let him rot in jail for the rest of his life!", if you're that hell-bent on revenge and retribution, this solution should actually be preferable to you.
Anyway, I've always admired Norway's prison system, since I genuinally believe that all prisoners should be rehabilitated (or an attempt should be made at least) and, in my opinion, punishment does not lead to rehabilitation, it leads to anger and hate towards the system.
That said, I would like to point out to all those people saying prison is lovely and snug nowadays and how that's really terrible. That picture is from a "nice" prison on the scale of prisons, and look at it! A tiny cell with a desk, a chair and a bed. Wow the luxury.