Is the Insanity Plea a legitimate defense?

[Beefy_Nugglet]

Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a rampage in Norway last July, isn't going to

jail. A mental evaluation found he inhabited a ''delusional universe'' and was ''psychotic'' at

the time of the attacks. He is now going to stay in a Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of

his life. What do you guys think about this? Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the

prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward? Or in that case, what do you think

we, as a race, should do with people who were "delusional" or "psychotic" during the time of a

murder or an attack?

 

[Craorach]

I don't consider it a defense except in the cases where it is "temporary insanity" brought on by rage, pain or other circumstances.

However.. I think people have far to much of a view that this plea leads to people not being punished... a high security psych ward is definately not better, and for most people probably far worse, than prison.

 

[Baradiel]

Once you get past the idea of basic revenge, it's probably for the best that he isn't in a standard prison. Prison is meant to be rehabilitating, and having this nutjob alongside others could harm that rehabilitation. It'd probably be worse.

However, he should never be released. I'm normally very lenient and try and see an issue from both sides, and normally I'd give a more relaxed opinion. But no.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Umm... Yeah? Why does it matter if they get a life sentence in prison or in the loony bin? They're still out of the way and no longer killing people.

 

[Per Kaas]

The thing is that it does not matter, he will never be a free man again for the rest of his life. In a psychiatric institution, he will be guarded just as strictly as in prison. And besides, if he should go to prison, he might be the first person in the history of the Norwegian Prison system to be shived by another inmate. That's right, what he did is so gruesome, so terrible that hardcore criminals hate him too. And if he should ever be declared mentally sane again, he won't be released out into normal society since it would be a danger to him.

 

[Ruwrak]

Just toss him in jail and forget about the keys.
Using insanity as an escape. If anything he is a terrorist (he is..) and I don't think he deserves anything else but the rotting away in jail part. But meh we're a nice people who love eachother....

 

[Angry Camel]

Psych wards are not nice places at all. In prison, you would be surrounded by some loonies and very mean people, but there would also be white collar criminals who maybe just didn't pay some fines or did something very out of character. In the psych ward, everyone either has a serious mental problem or will be facilitating your treatment, viewing you as a patient rather than a normal person. The treatment can also involve the person having to make themselves very vulnerable, versus the toughening up in prison. Which of those sounds more appealing?

 

[Astoria]

As long as he's locked away forever I don't care where it is. Prison or psych ward is to good for him IMO.

 

[xvbones]

Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a rampage in Norway last July, isn't going to

jail. A mental evaluation found he inhabited a ''delusional universe'' and was ''psychotic'' at

the time of the attacks. He is now going to stay in a Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of

his life. What do you guys think about this? Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the

prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward? Or in that case, what do you think

we, as a race, should do with people who were "delusional" or "psychotic" during the time of a

murder or an attack?

You are strongly mistaking "Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of his life" for "Getting off scot-free".

He is going to be behind lock and key, heavily medicated and very likely personally restrained for the rest of his life.

Seriously, not kidding, the man will spend the rest of his life strapped to a bed for days on end (shitting and pissing himself day in and day out, i need to stress this, when they strap you to a bed, if you need to shit, you shit yourself. He is going to be spending a lot of time shitting and pissing himself.) punctuated by long 'interview' sessions wherein doctors will treat him as though he is a neutered monster trapped under a microscope.

Oh, and because he is clearly pretty fucking violent, he's likely going to be kept 'regulated' on Halperidol or stronger Haldol isn't one of the 'fun' meds. Any time this man has not under that microscope or literally strapped to a bed, he is basically going to be sitting in a corner, drooling at a wall.

His sentence is somewhat analogous to lifelong solitary confinement, except that he's going to be under the direct, physical care of probably like a half-dozen or more very large orderlies who probably don't particularly like him even a little bit. Even a little. (because btw each and every one of them knows exactly who he is. exactly who he is)

He has not gotten away with shit.

He is, however, clearly out of his fucking mind.

It is generally not a good idea to put clearly fucking batshit psychotics into a prison with other people who are, while possibly violent, are not likely to be batshit psychotic.
If you do that, people get killed. Either someone kills him or he kills someone, there is no option C.

Norway has chosen to medicate the brains out of this monster, strap him to a bed and stick him in a box under a microscope.

I feel this was the appropriate choice.

 

[EHKOS]

Psych wards can be just as bad, if not worse, as prison. Either way he's going to suffer. And if he really is mentally ill then we can pity him and if he is just a murderer we can hate him. Enough of both from different people to satisfy the universe.

 

[RadiusXd]

I don't think this is a good example at all. there are people who legitimately have mental disorders that may cause paranoia and violent outbursts. what this guy did however, was clearly pre-meditated.

 

[Wuggy]

People should research the legal/prison system in Norway before they say anything about this. The American prison system is much about retribution, whereas Norwegian is about rehabilitation. The Norwegian prisons are luxurious compared to the US prison. Look, here's a picture of a Norwegian prison 'cell':

The inmates study, they have access to internet, they execrise hobbies. It's basically a supervised motel that you can't get out of whenever you want.

There is no life-sentence in Norway, the max determinate penalty is 21 years in prison and only a very small fraction spend that. The maximum sentence for "crimes against humanity" is 30 years. Prisoners usually get unsupervised parole on weekends and such after serving about a third of their sentence. There is a possibility of serving a lifetime in prison with "Containment", which is set for the standard 21 years, but can be prolonged if the prisoner in question is still considered dangerous. However, they could be released, either from prison entirely or just on parole, after 10 years of serving the sentence if they are no longer considered a danger to society.

Psychiatric Ward however ensures that he'll be there for his lifetime. To people who go "they should just let him rot in jail for the rest of his life!", if you're that hell-bent on revenge and retribution, this solution should actually be preferable to you.

 

[Caffiene]

Considering that rehabilitation and/or minimising risk to society are the stated goals of the majority of western and european legal systems Id say its certainly legitimate to change the way someone is treated based on their mental state.

If we want punishment instead, then the place to start isnt one particular plea. The place to start would be to completely rebuild the entire system from the ground up.

 

[chowderface]

On average, pleading insanity leads to an incarceration twice as long as going to actual prison. You don't have a set time you're going to be in, they hold you until they think you're fit to function in society again. Basically, there are only two times you would plead insanity: When you're a cocky jackass who's seen too much TV, and when your lawyer thinks you're impaired to the point of legitimately needing psychiatric help anyway.

But that said, that's kind of the point of the insanity defense; "My client did not know what s/he was doing. S/he was not in his/her right mind when s/he committed this act and needs help, but for whatever reason was not given it."

 

[xvbones]

too bad norway like to rehabilitate their prisnors, its not like they are the best in the world at it

They are fucking amazing at it. Norway is famous for this. Their rehabilitation program works several miles better than just about anyone else's in the entire fucking planet
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1986002,00.html

Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway's prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1986002,00.html#ixzz1fGxiAtwq

If they put this monster into that system, someone could get killed.
It's pretty likely they don't want that to happen.

medical treatment instead of prison.

When you use the word "Treatment", you make it sound like this man can be "cured".

It is not treatment.

It is imprisonment.

Period.

 

[Screamarie]

I believe that insanity is a legitimate defense. Do I think people abuse it? Yes, but that doesn't mean the people who truly need psychiatric help should pay for it. In general terms, people with psychotic disorders have absolutely no control over what they're doing. I don't mean it in that compulsion, addiction way where you just have to wrangle up some self-control. I mean that what they hear and see is completely different from what everyday people hear and see and they can't stop it. It doesn't excuse the bad things they've done, but at least in my opinion it's a hell of a lot different than just deciding that "I'm going to rob a bank and shoot anyone who gets in my way" or "I'm going to plant a bomb to make a point about such-n-such to our government."

I also believe that Breivik should go to a psychiatric ward instead of prison because he obviously needs help and before anyone says anything NO I am not the least bit sympathetic towards him. I just think that instead of letting him live out his days in prison where he could continue to live in his psychotic delusions thinking he was justified and possibly even believing that he's being punished by those he was trying to get rid of, he should get on proper medication and therapy and come to realize and repent for what's he done. No, amount of jail time, even the death penalty, could equal to spending the next 60, 70 years knowing and having to deal with the fact that you killed over 70 people, many of them young teenagers.

 

[legend forge]

What most people don't understand is how that system works, beyond what people call an "Insanity Plea". That doesn't exist as a way for criminals to get out of prison. That is a formal request of the defendant to go to a different institution, still technically a prison in many ways, where they can get the help they need in order to not harm anyone else. They might never ever leave. It is definitely not better then prison, it is just where they should be.

Yes people might try to abuse the system, but they will rarely succeed. When they do they will find that they are not necessarily better off.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a rampage in Norway last July, isn't going to

jail. A mental evaluation found he inhabited a ''delusional universe'' and was ''psychotic'' at

the time of the attacks. He is now going to stay in a Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of

his life. What do you guys think about this? Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the

prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward? Or in that case, what do you think

we, as a race, should do with people who were "delusional" or "psychotic" during the time of a

murder or an attack?

Did you miss the part where he's going away for life? Because mental hospitals aren't sleepaway camps. In fact, in Norway, the prisons are a fuckton better than they are virtually anywhere else.

Pleading insanity is a perfectly valid defense for a few reasons. First and foremost, it's rarely used, and even then doesn't often work, so it's not being abused for petty crimes. And second, it's not the Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free defense that people seem to think it is. If you are deemed insane, you get put in a mental institution. And you can't leave. It's basically a prison where none of the other inmates can speak coherently.

Similarly, you're put in the psych ward indefinitely. Meaning that even if you're not being specifically put there for the rest of your life, you may very well be stuck there for that long.

In short, it's fine. If you get 'exonerated' by means of an insanity defense, you're probably insane, and you won't be back in society if your crime wouldn't let you be otherwise.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

They are fucking amazing at it. Norway is famous for this. Their rehabilitation program works several miles better than just about anyone else's in the entire fucking planet
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1986002,00.html

Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway's prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1986002,00.html#ixzz1fGxiAtwq

If they put this monster into that system, someone could get killed.
It's pretty likely they don't want that to happen.

Wait, what? Dude, their rehabilitation rate is excellent. It doesn't mean that Norway has pansy criminals for this guy to be a wolf among sheep.

When you use the word "Treatment", you make it sound like this man can be "cured".

It is not treatment.

It is imprisonment.

Period.

Erm...no, it's not. It's mental institution, not mental mausoleum. This guy will be there for the rest of his life, but they're going to try and help him during that time. The alternative is the turn-of-the-20th-century style of mental 'hospitals' that were practically kennels, complete with cages.