Is the Insanity Plea a legitimate defense?

[fix-the-spade]

Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward?

In his case the outcome is much the same, 'psych ward' will be a secure facility from which he will never return.

The insanity plea is perfectly valid, because it means the defendant is criminally insane and can never be released. Mr Brevik is clearly a total nutter, believing himself to be part of a Europe wide terrorist organisation (of which no trace was found) and part of a crucial cell (which turned out be some guys talking shit on internet forums). He clearly lives in his own little world and putting him with the general prison population, which includes perfectly rational evil people as opposed to insane evil people, wouldn't end well for anyone.

Thee's also the possibilty he would present a danger to the prison staff, more so than regular inmates, so sending him to the loony bin seems fairly reasonable.

 

[chstens]

The thing is, since he's been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, we can keep him locked up forever. Something we couldn't do if he was "normal". There longest sentence you can get in Norway is 21 years.

 

[silasbufu]

I see some people here consider the "Looney bin", as some call it, some kind of good bargain for not going to prison. I myself have never been imprisoned in any of the two, but I can bet that the Psyichiatric Wards are no Paradise.

Also, we have the blessing of being mentally sane ( at least on a moderate scale ). None of you can tell how that man must have felt or what his thoughts were . I'm in no way taking his side, but mental ilness is a serious thing and can drive you to take serious negative actions.

Of course, many defense lawyers use the Insanity Plea the wrong way, but in cases this serious, I really don't think it matters. He won't be free ever again.

 

[darthotaku]

Insanity pleas are rarely used because it's so easy to exploit. it's looked into very deeply, and generally leaves you in a mental institution for longer than the regular jail sentense would. If they determined he's crazy, he probably is.

 

[xvbones]

The thing is, since he's been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, we can keep him locked up forever.

I know, right?

It is so very weird to me that some people are treating his many brain problems as though they are:
a) curable
b) not treated with heavy medication.

 

[crazyarms33]

Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a rampage in Norway last July, isn't going to

jail. A mental evaluation found he inhabited a ''delusional universe'' and was ''psychotic'' at

the time of the attacks. He is now going to stay in a Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of

his life. What do you guys think about this? Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the

prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward? Or in that case, what do you think

we, as a race, should do with people who were "delusional" or "psychotic" during the time of a

murder or an attack?

In America I know that the insanity plea works less than 3% of the time it is used, mainly because people can smell the BS. But if the person is really crazy and kills a bunch of people, I think that it doesn't matter whether he is or not, he should die.

My reasoning is simple, there are 2 ways this can work to my mind. You send him to a psych ward where he gets better after years and years of therapy/drugs whatever. As a rational human being how could you live with yourself knowing that you killed (in his case) 77 teenagers? Somehow, I think if it was me I would put a gun in my mouth and end it, and if that is a logical conclusion, why would you spare him initially only to have him realize he is a monster later on?
The second way it can work is that he gets the death penalty right away. Either he can be cured or he can't and if he can't he has proven himself a danger to society in an EXTREME way. And if he can be cured, well, see above.

 

[Radelaide]

Umm... Yeah? Why does it matter if they get a life sentence in prison or in the loony bin? They're still out of the way and no longer killing people.

Because if he's sent to the loony bin, they're assuming he can be rehabilitated into the society. He would be treated as if his murdering 77 innocent people was a symptom of illness and not a pre-meditated plan of murder. His lawyer (the poor bastard) will be trying to say that "he's sorry for what he did as he wasn't in control of his actions and that he should be able be made into a functioning member of the public again."

He needs to be locked up in a dirty cell made to look at the pictures of the families he's destroyed and never see the light of day. There are just some people who should have been aborted before birth and he's one of them.

I would contest that. An attempt should be made to rehabilitate people as much as possible. So if you have to opportunity to both confine someone and try to make them a normal person, why wouldn't you?

EDIT: Also, I would argue that murdering 77 people is always a sign of mental illness. A premeditated plan to kill people shows complete disregard for human life, which I would say is itself, a mental illness.

Perhaps a mental illness, but not insanity. Going by that logic, I'm insane because I suffer depression and anxiety, both mental illness.

The idea that he can be rehabilitated is idealistic but illogical. He murdered 77 people, used his religion as an excuse and is acting like he's doing the world a favour. Even if (in some magical world) he was made "normal" again, the families of the people he killed wouldn't get justice and they wouldn't be happy about him being released.

Confine him, yes. But don't waste valuable resources on someone who doesn't deserve them when.

 

[xvbones]

Perhaps a mental illness, but not insanity. Going by that logic, I'm insane because I suffer depression and anxiety, both mental illness.

Depression and anxiety do not manifest as murder sprees.

The idea that he can be rehabilitated is idealistic but illogical.

The idea that he can be rehabilitated is impossible.

He can not be 'cured', what is wrong with him is not curable.

It is treatable, yes.

With very very heavy medication.

Forever.

 

[Zantos]

The man probably can't be rehabilitated, and would probably be a danger to other inmates who could. Unless the Gulags are free, secure psychiatric is probably best for everyone.

 

[Muspelheim]

Honestly, if it were my call, I think it'd be more merciful towards everyone involved, Breivik included, to just dust of the guillotine and make it pass quickly.

Of course, we've agreed on in the past that we won't do things like that anymore, so that won't happen. Fair enough. Furthermore, life imprisonment in the mental ward is pretty much where he belongs. If nothing else, being classified as a madman is probably the worst punishment for Breivik, considering how seriously he takes himself and his awful political fanfic.

In the end, it's fair enough. He isn't well. He actually believe in his silly Templar-nonsense, and is obviously a very dangerous patient. Wherever he ends up, he will not be treated very well, considering who he is. And if he is ever considered cured enough for a release, he will most likely be murdered before the door has closed behind him, or will have to live in fear of being discovered and killed. In the extremly unlikely event he is ever set free. In short, suitable punishment.

 

[Conza]

Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a rampage in Norway last July, isn't going to

jail. A mental evaluation found he inhabited a ''delusional universe'' and was ''psychotic'' at

the time of the attacks. He is now going to stay in a Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of

his life. What do you guys think about this? Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the

prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward? Or in that case, what do you think

we, as a race, should do with people who were "delusional" or "psychotic" during the time of a

murder or an attack?

Hmm and odd format and capitalisation placement.

Right, well atleast he's locked up, if they had pleaded 'temporary insanity' (and won) he'd have walked free.

He's a sick person who's getting rehibilitation, that's all we can really ask for, we're hopefully beyond the point of revenge.

 

[Screamarie]

He was psychotic at the time of the attacks?
What about all the time it took to prepare them?

I'm not certain but what I think they may be talking about here is the fact that people with schizophrenia have times of lucidity, the can fade in and out of their delusions. I'm not certain and if someone knows better they can certainly correct me, but I think some schizophrenics even have something akin to black outs where they don't know what they've done recently. So I think what they're saying with that is that they know for certain that at the time he was suffering a psychotic delusion.

 

[Hippobatman]

It's Norway, not America. Psych wards in Norway doesn't function in the same way.

The Norwegians are basically peace-loving hippies, and it's not going down in the way you so describe. Sure, a mental ward isn't a playground there either, but the only time you will be strapped to a bed is if you misbehave. Breivik, for all his lack of emphaty, isn't without logic. He isn't going to misbehave if he knows it will make his situation worse.

I personally think he belongs in a prison.

Let me just go right off the bat here and say that, even though I'm Norwegian, I don't have much understanding for the politics and the technicalities regarding mental institutions over here. However, I consider forcing him into a mental ward for the rest of his life a fair punishment for what he's done. Sure, he may not suffer, but he will be locked away forever.

If he ends up in prison, he'd run the risk of being killed by the other inmates, and I would rather see him locked up for the rest of his life, so that he can pass away forgotten, rather than being killed in prison, which would spark yet another top story in the media.

Oh.. And, we're not all peace loving hippies, I think. But thanks for the input.

 

[Treblaine]

Umm... Yeah? Why does it matter if they get a life sentence in prison or in the loony bin? They're still out of the way and no longer killing people.

Because if he's sent to the loony bin, they're assuming he can be rehabilitated into the society. He would be treated as if his murdering 77 innocent people was a symptom of illness and not a pre-meditated plan of murder. His lawyer (the poor bastard) will be trying to say that "he's sorry for what he did as he wasn't in control of his actions and that he should be able be made into a functioning member of the public again."

He needs to be locked up in a dirty cell made to look at the pictures of the families he's destroyed and never see the light of day. There are just some people who should have been aborted before birth and he's one of them.

I would contest that. An attempt should be made to rehabilitate people as much as possible. So if you have to opportunity to both confine someone and try to make them a normal person, why wouldn't you?

EDIT: Also, I would argue that murdering 77 people is always a sign of mental illness. A premeditated plan to kill people shows complete disregard for human life, which I would say is itself, a mental illness.

They can try as much as you like but considering the threat this individual poses I don't think you could ever be sure he is normal again, considering how normal he appeared before, yet was able to single-handedly orchestrate a brutal murder spree in combination with bombing, fake police uniform attacking a place where there is little to no escape.. That just shows such calculating deception he is too dangerous to ever be let out or access to anything remotely dangerous.

He clearly has zero compulsions over killing, he shot 69 young teenagers in cold blood after luring them close. It takes a steady hand to aim a rifle, not trembling with fear or worry. He had no reason to kill before, so even if he has no reason to kill again that is no Guarantee that he won't. He is clearly very adept at deception and self-delusion, so even is he "honestly" intends no harm that doesn't mean he won't actually do harm.

And he is smart. It takes brains for one person to kill so many and survive, he could have even escaped if he had wanted to. He's more than just a lunatic who goes on a spree with a knife, he clearly thought of the most pain and loss he could possibly inflict.

You can never know if he is normal, and his abnormality is simply far FAR too dangerous. You shouldn't trust this guy with even a ball-point pen! Not ever.

I don't really care if he lives or dies, we should learn from Moby Dick about the folly of wanting revenge on a being that does not have reason. I just want it so that he never hurts anyone again, a lethal measure would be the most sure guarantee but I guess a mental asylum would be the same. As long as they NEVER release him. As I'm sure they won't.

 

[Wintermoot]

should still go to prison if somebody is a danger to the society the only thing we can do is either kill that person or stow the person away.

 

[Major_Tom]

I don't understand how you people can read "Psychiatric Ward" and think "dancing freely in a grassy meadow".

 

[Woodsey]

Of course its a legitimate defence. You are aware of the definition of "insanity", aren't you?

I highly doubt a life-long stay in the loony bin is a walk in the park. People try and drag emotional baggage into this because they assume REVENGAAA! = justice. It doesn't.

Prison is for rehabilitation as much as it is for punishment (at least, it should be, whether that actually happens or not is pretty debatable), hospitals are for sick people, and where this man is going will be a mixture of both.

I don't really see why people are so sceptical about the insanity plea: its that hard to believe that mass murders don't have all their faculties in check, is it? His lawyer hasn't just gone "yeah, he's insane,"; they've had a professional examine him and come to that conclusion.

If a kid with Aspergers has a tendency to hit people, you wouldn't react to that in the same way you would to a regular kid of the same age doing the same thing.

I don't understand how you people can read "Psychiatric Ward" and think "dancing freely in a grassy meadow".

Gives them something to complain about.

 

[IxHADOUKENxI]

The way I see it is that if your considered sane enough to function normally (obeying laws and acting socially acceptable etc etc.)(Up to the point of the crime) in modern society and are also smart enough to orchestrate something even remotely on this scale then their is no way in my mind you should be able to plea your "insane"

 

[Kristoffer Sivertsen]

It is being discussed wether our institutions have good enough security to keep him there. He could end up in prison after all.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

The insanity plea is a legitimate defense. The question is, unless you are actually insane, why would you plea for it? In most cases, its probably worst then what you'd be sentenced to in Prison.