Is there really no "Cons" to a Vegetable only diet?

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vallorn

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Nov 18, 2009
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We're omnivores and there are very good reasons for it.

Apes seem to be predisposed towards omnivores, the main examples off the top of my heat being the chimpanzees and the orangutans, both of whom eat meat including the meat of other primates.

Our digestive tract is not well built for eating plants exclusively, we lack much of an appendix or other internal organs that many herbivores have to extract the maximum nutrition from plants.

Meat's energy density tends to be much greater than that of most plants when it comes to what we can extract from it. This is partly due to cellulose, the sugar based cell wall of all plant cells. It's almost indigestible and the only things that really break it down are the bacteria in the guts and stomachs of certain animals like cows, because of this it's more efficient to let cows eat something we cannot (grass), and then eat the cows where we can easily extract the nutrients from the animal tissue.

Adding to this, our brains began to really develop as a species after the advent of fire, fire and cooking allows us to extract far more energy from plants and animals than we would usually get. This coupled with the greater energy density of meat allowed us to spend more energy on growing our brains so large, energy wasteful, brains stopped being a disadvantage to survival.

Moreover, it's really hard to get complex proteins and fats from plants, things that we need to consume to stay healthy. Iron deficiency can also be a hazard as can deficiencies in vitamin B-12 or vitamin D. (Note, deficiencies in B-12 and Iron can both cause the blood to stop transporting oxygen as readily as a healthy person's, a condition known as Anemia) Unfortunately, despite Iron being prevalent in dark, leafy greens, these plants also contain minerals that prevent our bodies from readily absorbing them.

P.S. Modern life adds even more hazards to all vegetable diets, canned vegetables full of salt for instance, and switching to a died high in fiber suddenly can cause large amounts of gas to build up inside you which also gives rise to bloating. Vegetables high in Potassium or Phosphorus can also cause damage in people with kidney issues because the kidneys cannot excrete the excess minerals which then become toxic in higher concentrations. Oh, and eating too many vegetables high in beta-carotene (like carrots) can cause our bodies to have issues absorbing vitamin A.

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In essence, we rely on cooked meat because that's what spurred our evolution, we lack the digestive system to really take advantage of vegetables but we can use animals to process the vegetables for us and then eat them. This allows us to gather the difficult to acquire nutrients we need in easy doses instead of constantly grazing for nutrition like herbivores do.
 

NPC009

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Aug 23, 2010
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Speaking as someone who has been for over 15 years: Like others have said before, you CANNOT get everything you need for just vegetables. For instance, vitamin B12 is something you can only get from animal products. Meat is a very efficient source, but you can substitute it with eggs, milk and so on. This is something you need to really watch. Our body stores a lot of B12 and it will take a while to develop a deficieny, but a lack of B12 is not fun (and can cause permanent damage). There's also iron to consider. Sure, you can get it from leafy greens and stuff, but legumes and nuts are often more efficient. While it is possible to get everything you need from a vegetarian diet, you need a healthy and balanced diet to do so. Go vegan and you will have to take supplements. Vegetables only... that's just a bad idea.

As for losing the ability to eat meat: it's not as bad a throwing up, unless you ate like a huge steak or something. It's more like your stomach and intestines are going to give you trouble of the painful kind. So, if you want to go back to eating meat, you have to slowly introduce it into your diet again. But hey, that goes for many types of food. Suddenly up the amount of veggies you eat and you won't be having much fun in the bathroom either.
 

Bob_McMillan

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My teacher once told me that it all really depends on how you cook your food. if you have just raw vegetables, not a healthy diet at all. But if you really now how to prepare your greens and know which vegetable are for what (protein, calcium, etc), then there should be no cons to an all veggie diet. Though I guess you would technically have to increase the amount of food you eat, since they have less calories or whatnot. Keep in mind, this is mostly conjecture, so please forgive me if I have made a mistake somewhere.
 

NPC009

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Corey Schaff said:
NPC009 said:
Speaking as someone who has been for over 15 years: Like others have said before, you CANNOT get everything you need for just vegetables. For instance, vitamin B12 is something you can only get from animal products.
I heard that you can get B12 from veggies if you don't wash them too much, because of soil bacteria. Have you ever heard anything like that?
I haven't, but I think I'd like to stick to washing vegetables. While some bacteria are probably harmless or even beneficial, a lot of the things in soil are not. I've had tapeworms once and I'd rather not repeat that. Plus, soil varies from region to region. I guess you could grow plants artificially in soil that does not contain anything harmless, but if you're resorting to that, it'd make more sense to just take a supplement.
 

Albino Boo

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Corey Schaff said:
NPC009 said:
Speaking as someone who has been for over 15 years: Like others have said before, you CANNOT get everything you need for just vegetables. For instance, vitamin B12 is something you can only get from animal products.
I heard that you can get B12 from veggies if you don't wash them too much, because of soil bacteria. Have you ever heard anything like that?
You can't get B12 from veggies, there are similar compounds in vegetables but you still need B12. Its not that hard to get, either in pill form, fortified soya milk and even some breakfast cereals.

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan#is
 

chadachada123

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Aside from the horrible taste? Not really sure, though it seems to have been mostly answered already.

(I do envy those that can tolerate the taste of greens. Extremely bitter regardless of preparation, with an unbearable texture, for me).
 

Amaror

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Recusant said:
Not to mention- people who adopt vegetarianism or veganism gradually lose the ability to handle eating meat. If they try to eat it, they'll throw up.
Bullsh*t! I have been a vegetarian for longer than 6 years now and, yes, you do get more sensitive to the taste of meat. You tend to notice immediatly if you get meat in your mouth (You would be surprised how many people in the food industry apparently don't get what you mean if you order something as "vegetarian"). But you aren't unable to eat it and you most certainly don't have to throw up from it.
 

Hoplon

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Corey Schaff said:
MarsAtlas said:
Corey Schaff said:
@MarsAtlas

Hmm, I seem to be having the same lavatory problems you are describing...do you think taking miralax is a permanent solution to this negative or is that just sweeping things under the rug?
I genuinely cannot make that determination. It could be a condition that would occur regardless of your diet, it could be caused by the general trend of your diet or it could be one very specific part of your diet. You should see a doctor and they should be able to figure that out for you. In the meantime, do what you have to do to get by.
Oh it definitely was in relation to diet. I may not be a vegetarian, but I've been eating a lot more vegetables than I used to. Broccoli, Carrots, and Celery by the bagful, cans of Corn and Greenbeans, and Frozen Peas.

Thus began the troubles <.<, I thought that was actually supposed to be good for that sort of thing, more fiber and whatnot.
You might need to just up your water intake, it's the other component. like 2 liters (3 to 4 pints) of just water you have drunk.
 

K12

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A truly "vegetable only" diet would be unhealthy, unless you're using the word "vegetable" in a broad colloquial "everything that grows on a plant" kind of way.

People seem to think that vegetarians struggle to get enough protein but that isn't really true, not for me anyway. Vegans have to work a bit harder to get a good balance, maybe having some vitamin fortified foods, but even that restriction isn't that difficult to organise.

There are millions of different permutations of a healthy and balanced diet so cutting out something like meat is easy to do while staying healthy, most people eat too much meat anyway so it might well be a net positive.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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I tried a no meat diet, and had a nutritionist help me plan it. I got sicker than I've ever been. I switched to pescatarian and found it was the best diet I've ever been on. It wasn't about animal rights (though I am an animal lover) it was just that I grew up on an island in the Caribbean and had access to the worlds best fish and seafood in general (you can't convince me otherwise). I was forced to go back to other meats (I would cheat with bacon every now and again... I can't quit you ba-con and dairy/eggs but I try to eat local small farmed goods) because I moved out of the area and its harder to get fresh tropical fish which is the best way to eat it. I'm spoiled.
I have noticed since I switched to a less fish diet though my cognitive functions have decreased noticeably, especially since I went back home for a year and was able to resume the pescatarian diet and noticed a reversion to more normal function, well normal for me. Since then I've been trying to find a good market that carries the various fishes I enjoy that is reasonably priced but its difficult as the stuff thats trucked in isn't always quality. There's an art to picking fish meat.
I have come to the conclusion that some people are not physically set up to have a completely no meat diet. I've a theory you can tell who's a destined meat eater by their teeth. Prominent canines are a sign and general sharpness for people who should eat meat. I could be absolutely batshit crazy though. But it makes sense to me. Some humans have flatter teeth than others. *shrug*
 

manic_depressive13

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Wow lol, people can't even pretend to control their biases. Vegetarian and vegan diets have been demonstrated time and again to be as healthy, if not slightly healthier, than diets that incorporate meat. So despite the fear mongering in this thread, while nutrient deficiencies can of course occur in vegetarian/vegan diets, there is no reason to believe they are more common in vegetarian diets than in those that incorporate meat.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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Silvanus said:
Well, a vegan diet doesn't necessarily mean vegetable-only. They'll be eating nuts, pulses, mycoprotein, stuff like that.

A vegetable-only diet would find it quite difficult to obtain the necessary protein, which vegetarians (and vegans) usually get from the above. Not saying it's not possible; it probably is (with good planning).
Plant based is what you should probably say for a vegan I guess.

Anyway its not impossible to be a vegetarian or a vegan, although if a vegan you WILL have to supp B vitamins, your supply wont run out right away but in a year or two. I think its B12 that has no natural plant source, herbivores create it, only now we can create b12 artifically is it actually possible to be a healthy vegan, in the past it was impossible.



It seems like, and Im not a vegetarian but I have done some research thinking about it and done the no meat monday thing for a while, is the more you restrict your diet, the more you have to think about what exactly you eat and why, get some education on food and not from nutritionists talk to DIETICIANS(the word that actually means real credentials). A stricter diet done right is a planned one.

Theres a tradeoff there though, mental health for physical health, the more you stress over eating right the more healthier physically you might be, but stress is bad. Still some people are just harder mentally and can take more than others. Im not saying that derisively either, I wish I had more mental fortitude for being disciplined but I just dont. We just love our calorie dense fatty food like Bacon.

and be prepared to poop a lot and eat a lot more mass of food. So much fibre.
 

NPC009

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Aug 23, 2010
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Silvanus said:
Theres a tradeoff there though, mental health for physical health, the more you stress over eating right the more healthier physically you might be, but stress is bad. Still some people are just harder mentally and can take more than others. Im not saying that derisively either, I wish I had more mental fortitude for being disciplined but I just dont. We just love our calorie dense fatty food like Bacon.
It's not that bad when you get used to it. In fact, I'd say it's easy once you start thinking in terms of what you can eat, instead of what you can't eat. By the time you've expanded your recipe repertoire to cover all meals and more, it'll be a habit.
 

lionsprey

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the answer is kinda. you need to get supplements. or have super control over what you eat and when.
the problem is that our bodies are basically the same as back when we lived as hunter gatherers.
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Mar 16, 2009
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Kind of a weird place to be asking this. Gamers aren't really known for eating healthy.

the idea is that you get protein through nuts and whatnot so if you're vegetarian and ESPECIALLY if you're vegan, you really have to take into account where you're getting the nutrients you usually get from meat. Honestly, I would say cut out RED meat. Chicken and fish are not really that bad for you.

As far as cons I would say the biggest one is cost. I'm really surprised nobody has brought this up. Fresh produce is pretty much the most expensive food you can buy. Also a lot of it goes bad FAST. Extremely fast. If you buy enough to fill your food groups, chances are half of it will be starting to rot before you get to it. That's just my experience. But I live alone, so I could see this offset by 2 people being on this kind of diet.
 

Ratzing

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manic_depressive13 said:
Wow lol, people can't even pretend to control their biases. Vegetarian and vegan diets have been demonstrated time and again to be as healthy, if not slightly healthier, than diets that incorporate meat. So despite the fear mongering in this thread, while nutrient deficiencies can of course occur in vegetarian/vegan diets, there is no reason to believe they are more common in vegetarian diets than in those that incorporate meat.
B12 deficiency and, for some people, iron deficiency is a very real thing if you abstain from any animal produce. Vegetarian diet can be easily as healthy as omnivore diet, but it is harder to maintain, especially in some regions of the world that doesn't have the greatest availability of plant produce. To say that there isn't any reason for B12 deficiency to be more common in plant-only diets when plants DO NOT have capability of delivering B12 to our bodies is just asinine.

That being said, average vegetarian/vegan will be more healthy than average omnivore for one simple reason - nearly all vegetarians/vegans are far more concerned with what they eat and with their lifestyle in comparison to average person. When you compare properly lead vegetarian/vegan lifestyle with people leading healthy lifestyles and eating animal produce, you will find no significant differences.
 

x EvilErmine x

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If you take into account your bodies need for the correct nutrition, there's no reason that you couldn't cut out the meat from your diet. However that's not to say there aren't any any major cons...

It would mean giving up bacon.
 

manic_depressive13

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Ratzing said:
Vegetarian diet can be easily as healthy as omnivore diet, but it is harder to maintain, especially in some regions of the world that doesn't have the greatest availability of plant produce.
Again, you're insisting on this idea that it's somehow harder to be healthy as a vegetarian compared to when eating meat. Yes, very strict vegans need to take the occasional B12 supplement, but I wouldn't call that hard. People who want to be healthy eating meat also need to make an effort to get the right nutrients. It's not like it's rainbows and unicorns for one group and meticulously weighing kale leaves for the other.
 

MCerberus

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Aside from the usual "but no bacon" responses and the like, there are certain amino acid chains that the human diet commonly gets from animal protein that you'll need to plan to get from other sources. Remember Jurassic Park? We're talking that 'Lysine Deficiency' thing, only it's real. During the switch, you also have to contend with the fact that you're an omnivore whose normal foodsources got shuffled around. Your digestion may act... erratically.

Tried it once on a dare, didn't last long. Everything I have recipes for use milk, eggs, or animal products and I *despise* soy. And if you're doing it for sustainability issues, the other common substitute is almond milk, which has rather intense water-usage issues.

edit- there's been some discussion of losing your ability to digest meat. To my knowledge that's only an issue for children, in which case they simply never really develop an adult's capabilities. Have a step-sister-in-law that was vegan but let her kids eat meat so they could decide later.
 

manic_depressive13

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Guitarmasterx7 said:
As far as cons I would say the biggest one is cost. I'm really surprised nobody has brought this up. Fresh produce is pretty much the most expensive food you can buy. Also a lot of it goes bad FAST. Extremely fast. If you buy enough to fill your food groups, chances are half of it will be starting to rot before you get to it. That's just my experience. But I live alone, so I could see this offset by 2 people being on this kind of diet.
But meat is mostly substituted with stuff like lentils, tofu and beans, which tend to be cheap and lasting. A healthy meat eater would be buying a similar amount of fruit and vegetables to a vegetarian.