Freedom of Speech, yes, but when it gets to the point where a kid becomes such an Obama fanatic that he can't even give an unbaised presentation on the candidate's plans for defense, then we have a problem.
Is this right?
- Thread starter whoops1995
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I don't see anything wrong with it. He just made a joke, it's not like he shouted "Obama Akbar! Death to the Republican infidels!". He didn't give you any reason to believe that Obama was smarter nor did he single you out and tell you that you were stupid for thinking otherwise. There might be some obscure rule barring teachers from talking about politics but it's really nothing to get mad over.
I don't recall being mean and sarcastic?Spartan Bannana post=18.74387.832509 said:
*reads back*
Hmm, maybe I was a little harsh. Apologies.
However, my point remains. Nowhere does it say that you have the right to not be offended. I understand that we shouldn't go out of our way to offend people, but teaching something that has no scientific basis in a science class just to avoid pissing some people off strikes me as rather stupid.
Although, for the record, I'll state that my science class did mention creationism. It also mentioned the flat earth theory when we got round to geology and the views of the ancient Greeks when we got round go gravity. The thing is that we're lucky nobody in the class actually believed those things because they were taught as "people used to think X, now we know better", which would have really offended creationists far more than omitting it entirely.
That's why I'm against teaching creationism in schools, because it's either taught as a legitimate alternate theory or it's taught as blatantly false, the former of which has no scientific basis and the latter of which would be even worse than omitting it.
"Freedom" must always have bounds. If not, the world would fall into chaos. I think this is where Political Correctness comes in. People are not afraid to use the argument "this is against my freedoms/rights" when they face problems, and that's what's wrong.
Displaying your opinion will not offend anyone, unless the person listening cares greatly for the opposite.
There is always going to be opinion; so long as the world isn't ruled by robots. Deal with it.
There is always going to be opinion; so long as the world isn't ruled by robots. Deal with it.
And I just finished kind of sort of watch the Golden Compass' movie adaptation, and can conclude that attempting to take free will away is wrong.Lord Krunk post=18.74387.832565 said:
I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but I agree.OverlordSteve post=18.74387.832570 said:
Although I already believed that taking away free will is wrong.
I was being pretty serious. I had a third-grade teacher who I knew for a fact wished we were all robots.Lord Krunk post=18.74387.832586 said:
Well, having to deal with 8-year-old kids would make you think that way; it at least keeps them under control.OverlordSteve post=18.74387.832591 said:
I think she was referring to that idea, not the "assimilated hive mind" that I was referring to.
We weren't a rowdy class though. If someone didn't get what she was teaching the first time she said it, she'd make a big deal about sighing and rolling her eyes before moving on to the next thing. I could never get cursive, so she stopped teaching it to me.Lord Krunk post=18.74387.832599 said:
Okay, that teacher probably shouldn't be a teacher; if she is annoyed that her students don't already know the things she's supposed to teach.OverlordSteve post=18.74387.832614 said:
I think that's wrong.
You can ask your teacher about any two candidates; the liberal candidate is always going to be much smarter than the conservative candidate. Thus the Democrat candidate is always going to be much smarter than the Republican candidate.
This tells you that your teacher is not particularly bright, but is instead supporting politicians based on his internal ideology without any particular evaluation of candidates. Ergo your teacher is probably not capable of such evaluation. Ergo your teacher is probably not particularly bright. Now couple that with the fact that he obviously thinks that imparting to you his political knowledge (which could easily be written on a fortune cookie slip) is more important than spending his time teaching the subject he is charged with teaching.
Now you have a decision tree. If this subject OR if high grades on all subjects are important to your future, do NOT let this man know you are not in complete agreement with his views. At best he will automatically assume that if you disagree with his political views, then you aren't particularly bright, and he will grade your work accordingly. At worst he will decide you are defective and it is his responsibility to make sure you are held back or are otherwise kept from achieving any sort of success until you have been assimilated. If high grades in general are important to you and your future, for future studies or scholarships, then you must become outwardly compliant with this man's political views. You don't have to agree with him, but for heaven's sake don't disagree with him. And don't tell him you think it's inappropriate subject matter for class; this will mark you as unassimilated.
If high grades AND understanding the subject matter are important to you and your future, then you need to commit to a significant amount of independent study. This man is not going to be a good teacher, although he may be a fun teacher if you don't get on his bad side.
If neither this class nor high grades in general are important, then you can disagree with him. But I'd talk it over with your parents first. At best, disagreeing with him is just going to take up more class time. Even if you can afford it, others may not be in such a good position. At worst, disagreeing with him may get you held back and may spread to other teachers, most of whom will share his general view even if they are not quite so narrow about it. The vast majority of teachers and administrators support the teachers in most disputes, and most will share his view as well. Your odds of winning are poor.
I was a stubborn child and butted heads with several such teachers. Luckily I was in advanced classes and was able to skip the worst of them, but even so I ended up having to work my ass off to avoid failing senior English due to nothing more than my own stubbornness.
This tells you that your teacher is not particularly bright, but is instead supporting politicians based on his internal ideology without any particular evaluation of candidates. Ergo your teacher is probably not capable of such evaluation. Ergo your teacher is probably not particularly bright. Now couple that with the fact that he obviously thinks that imparting to you his political knowledge (which could easily be written on a fortune cookie slip) is more important than spending his time teaching the subject he is charged with teaching.
Now you have a decision tree. If this subject OR if high grades on all subjects are important to your future, do NOT let this man know you are not in complete agreement with his views. At best he will automatically assume that if you disagree with his political views, then you aren't particularly bright, and he will grade your work accordingly. At worst he will decide you are defective and it is his responsibility to make sure you are held back or are otherwise kept from achieving any sort of success until you have been assimilated. If high grades in general are important to you and your future, for future studies or scholarships, then you must become outwardly compliant with this man's political views. You don't have to agree with him, but for heaven's sake don't disagree with him. And don't tell him you think it's inappropriate subject matter for class; this will mark you as unassimilated.
If high grades AND understanding the subject matter are important to you and your future, then you need to commit to a significant amount of independent study. This man is not going to be a good teacher, although he may be a fun teacher if you don't get on his bad side.
If neither this class nor high grades in general are important, then you can disagree with him. But I'd talk it over with your parents first. At best, disagreeing with him is just going to take up more class time. Even if you can afford it, others may not be in such a good position. At worst, disagreeing with him may get you held back and may spread to other teachers, most of whom will share his general view even if they are not quite so narrow about it. The vast majority of teachers and administrators support the teachers in most disputes, and most will share his view as well. Your odds of winning are poor.
I was a stubborn child and butted heads with several such teachers. Luckily I was in advanced classes and was able to skip the worst of them, but even so I ended up having to work my ass off to avoid failing senior English due to nothing more than my own stubbornness.
No, reagerdless of age, maturity etc., a teacher has no right to sway the impressionable minds of his/her students one way or the other. They should leave it up to the student to make their own choice. When it comes to freedom of speech, of course there are certain constraints, it would be naive to think otherwise.
No, teachers are not put into classrooms to influence opinions of their students. Teachers are meant to relay information to their students and let them formulate their own opinions. As soon as said teacher stops playing Devil's Advocate, they have failed. Also since it was a Language Arts class, he has no place to say anything.
Actually, when you think about it that way; it is wrong.bl82 post=18.74387.833135 said:
But was he just cracking a politician joke, or actually stating to the class that McCain is dumb?
(Just as closure, I don't like either, but I'm against Palin. Not that it affects me)
while the teacher does technically have to right to express his freedom of speech, i belive they should do so with more tact. A teacher blantantly state there political views can attract negative attention from crazy parents of the opposing party, which cuases far to much trouble.
The teacher has as much right as anyone to express his political views. It should *not* be required *by law* that parents deliver their children into state-run propaganda machines--er, I mean "schools". In that situation, if the attempts at propaganda annoy then kids and parents can go elsewhere. Teachers are more likely to restrain themselves to actual education in that case.