Is UK work ethic different from US work ethic?

[Mouse One]

The thing you Brits are missing with the US tipping custom is that in a lot of states certain jobs (like waiter) can pay less than minimum wage with the assumption that the workers will get roughly 15% in tips. Theoretically, in most of these states, the employer is supposed to make up the diff if tips fall below that (very theoretically).

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

In other words, it's less of a "thanks" and more of a semi-voluntary surcharge that comes out of the paycheck of the waiter if you stiff them.

Heh-- my British father in law (OT: totally workaholic) still can't bring himself to routinely tip 15% in restaurants, and he's lived in the US for a couple of decades now.

 

[willsham45]

Yeah, just look at their tipping culture.

In the UK: People give good service and a tip is a nice bonus
In the US: You have to give a tip and not doing so is used as an insult and you will probably get your food spit in if you return.

In the UK wages are good and tips are an added extra, most people don't expect them.
In the US wages are less and so tips are required to help keep the on the right side of things.

 

[Phoenixlight]

Errr, it's considered douchey not to give a tip.

The people who work as waiters or whatever get paid for doing their job, there's no reason you should feel like you have to throw money at them to do they've already agreed to do.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Yeah, just look at their tipping culture.

In the UK: People give good service and a tip is a nice bonus
In the US: You have to give a tip and not doing so is used as an insult and you will probably get your food spit in if you return.

In the UK wages are good and tips are an added extra, most people don't expect them.
In the US wages are less and so tips are required to help keep the on the right side of things.

Yeah, I see the US tipping culture as being drummed up by the employers as a tactic to not pay the workers as much, and it worked like a charm.

They pay the staff much less and have made off like bandits, leaving the customers to happily foot the bill.

That's exactly what it is.

Maybe all you hard done by waiters and waitresses in the US should actually stand up together and demand a better wage and stop letting your employers cash in on the blackmail that is your tipping culture.

When I recently went to a restaurant in the states with quite a big group and spent $300 at the table (most of which was booze) You really think we left the girl a $45 tip? Fuck no!

 

[Black Arrow Officer]

Yeah, just look at their tipping culture.

In the UK: People give good service and a tip is a nice bonus
In the US: You have to give a tip and not doing so is used as an insult and you will probably get your food spit in if you return.

The thing is that in America, waiters and waitresses are paid poorly. Most of their income comes from tips, so everyone is expected to tip. There have been cases where angry managers have pursued people who left the restaurant without tipping.

 

[talideon]

The numbers seem to speak for themselves.
The US mean work week is 42.X hours
the UK mean work week is 36.X hours.

No. That's bad use of statistics. If you're doing it right, you need factor in hourly productivity. After all, it it *really* worth those extra hours if, when it comes down to it, you're doing nothing particularly productive with them? Of course not. If anything, it's *detrimental*.

 

[Broady Brio]

I don't have a job. I'm from the UK. Perhaps this will sway your opinion for the better or worse.

What do you do with your time then?

Currently, looking for one. Funny how unemployment is present yet the majority of recruiters say 3 years in said field is essential, but how can new workers get it without such experience. I'm also waiting for my AS results in August.

 

[revjor]

Yeah, just look at their tipping culture.

In the UK: People give good service and a tip is a nice bonus
In the US: You have to give a tip and not doing so is used as an insult and you will probably get your food spit in if you return.

In the UK wages are good and tips are an added extra, most people don't expect them.
In the US wages are less and so tips are required to help keep the on the right side of things.

Yeah, I see the US tipping culture as being drummed up by the employers as a tactic to not pay the workers as much, and it worked like a charm.

They pay the staff much less and have made off like bandits, leaving the customers to happily foot the bill.

Having worked ina. Few food service places that's not really true. Owning a restaurant is a real good way to not make a lot of money. Very very few restaurant owners will ever "make off like bandits" even if everything goes well.

 

[WaysideMaze]

Yeah, I see the US tipping culture as being drummed up by the employers as a tactic to not pay the workers as much, and it worked like a charm.

They pay the staff much less and have made off like bandits, leaving the customers to happily foot the bill.

This really does sum it up nicely.

Surely the idea of tipping is to reward an individual who has gone beyond what is expected of them. By tipping everyone it devalues the meaning.

Because this thread is rapidly derailing...
O/T I work between 40-50 hours a week in a warehouse. It's a very physical job, you are carrying around heavy parcels all night. We have a set number of fulltime employees, complemented by a small number of agency staff. And you would not believe the number of agency we go through.

I can't say if this is specifically a UK issue, or even just an issue specific to my workplace, since I have no frame of reference, but the number of people we get in who are out of work and thus using an agency, that leave within a week, sometimes in less than a night, is staggering. There are a lot of people in the UK that feel as though manual labour is beneath them, or simply can't hack working long hours, opting instead for something easier.

Like I say, this is just from personal experience. Make of it what you will.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I'm going to sound like a dirty red commie...again.

My stance is, however, if your staff are getting paid for a 40 hour week, and they're working 40 hours, you don't expect an extra 10 or 20 hours out of them for free, you go employ some more people!

This is partly why we have unemployment, because we're expecting 3 or 4 people to do the work of 5. I'd go as far as to say the pressure people are put under at work is a high contributive factor as to way depression and other mental illnesses are so rife in western society.

Perhaps people off sick with depression aren't 'slackers' but in fact a sign that we're doing this wrong. When is 40 hours a week not enough?

I should also state I'm not at all against occasional overtime, even unpaid, when it's necessary, but expecting it every week, just to prove you deserve a job is plainly wrong.

EDIT: I should say, I've done enough physical jobs in my time, so I'm not scared of work, I was a postman for a while too, multiple 35lb bags of mail and 5am starts. Not the hardest job in the world, but not sat on my butt answering the phone all day either

 

[Broady Brio]

Currently, looking for one. Funny how unemployment is present yet the majority of recruiters say 3 years in said field is essential, but how can new workers get it without such experience. I'm also waiting for my AS results in August.

Ah, when you said "I don't have a job" I thought that implied you were out of school, fair enough then.

Yes, next time I'll make sure to be clear on that. I can see how that could look like that I am a person who just lives on benefits.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

If you read any of the research by most sociologists, psychologists etc., you'll find they're generally in agreement on one thing: the US is statistically the hardest-working and most work-driven Western society. We, the US as a whole, have an almost unhealthy attachment to work and working. We take the least amount of time off, work longer hours, and place the importance of work above a lot of other things. The extreme work ethic is integral and inseparable part of American society.

Of course, it pales in comparison to some other countries, particularly countries like Japan, but against other western nations there isn't much of a comparison.

We're also one of the top countries in the world where people are unhappy.

Happiest people in the world? I believe it's the Jamaicans, the study shown, that more often then not reported that they feel content.

 

[xorinite]

The numbers seem to speak for themselves.
The US mean work week is 42.X hours
the UK mean work week is 36.X hours.

No. That's bad use of statistics. If you're doing it right, you need factor in hourly productivity. After all, it it *really* worth those extra hours if, when it comes down to it, you're doing nothing particularly productive with them? Of course not. If anything, it's *detrimental*.

That is very true, you could work very hard for a short period of time, or work very little for a long period of time. Of course hourly productivity would require only using like for like in a lot of things or normalising using some kind of regression analysis. It would be a far more daunting task than I initially considered. You have to correct for everything from costs of non labour production factors and how they vary, education, technological multipliers etc.

Then you have the problem of what is a work ethos, is it the desire to work full stop, the desire to work well, the desire to work based upon compensation?

Even if you got the ultimate productivity per hour it wouldn't on its own answer the question of a work ethic since you wouldn't know how much of this is ultimately down to a work ethic, and how much of it is down to competitive or other pressure.

If you HAVE to work longer and harder or will suffer, is that the same thing as a strong work ethic?

Maybe a case study of like for like in volunteer work, and yet again is this a work ethos, or some other ethic that is responsible.

Anyways, thanks for the correction. The mistake, like most mistakes, seems obvious now its been pointed out

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

I hold myself to my father's work ethic as well. Unfortunately, being only just starting on the laddr of work I don't have enough to keep me at work this long, but on the days when I do I'm in by 8 and leaving gone 7. Everyone that I see at my office is prepared to and does work simliar hours. I've worked in three offices and two labour intensive factories so far, and aside from one or two bad eggs I haven't seen anyone who isn't prepared to work like that.

I find it interesting that you call them "bad eggs". I would just call them people who don't want to work themselves to death all hours of the day. I expect there are reasons other than working hours.

Sorry, I didn't phrase that as clearly as I should have.

I have nothing against people who want to work a normal 9-5 job. More power to them, I actually wish I could work like that sometimes, because I fully recognise that my work ethic is not healthy and is likely to get worse.

What I do dislike is people who take four twenty minute smoking breaks through the day, or arrive fifteen minutes late and leave fifteen minutes early just because they know that the boss' back is turned. There's only ever one or two per office though. Everyone else is either crazy over the top or just wroking a regular day like a regular human being.

 

[Flames66]

I hold myself to my father's work ethic as well. Unfortunately, being only just starting on the laddr of work I don't have enough to keep me at work this long, but on the days when I do I'm in by 8 and leaving gone 7. Everyone that I see at my office is prepared to and does work simliar hours. I've worked in three offices and two labour intensive factories so far, and aside from one or two bad eggs I haven't seen anyone who isn't prepared to work like that.

I find it interesting that you call them "bad eggs". I would just call them people who don't want to work themselves to death all hours of the day. I expect there are reasons other than working hours.

Sorry, I didn't phrase that as clearly as I should have.

I have nothing against people who want to work a normal 9-5 job. More power to them, I actually wish I could work like that sometimes, because I fully recognise that my work ethic is not healthy and is likely to get worse.

What I do dislike is people who take four twenty minute smoking breaks through the day, or arrive fifteen minutes late and leave fifteen minutes early just because they know that the boss' back is turned. There's only ever one or two per office though. Everyone else is either crazy over the top or just wroking a regular day like a regular human being.

Ah ha, I see what you are on about now. People not doing the work they are paid for when you are working your socks off.

I personally intend to work part time. I would do the work to the best of my ability while working, but as soon as my shift ends I am gone.

 

[wintercoat]

Yeah, just look at their tipping culture.

In the UK: People give good service and a tip is a nice bonus
In the US: You have to give a tip and not doing so is used as an insult and you will probably get your food spit in if you return.

Errr, it's considered douchey not to give a tip.

Is it? I am british, I dont think its "douchey". If they provide a particularly fantastic service then yes, maybe. But being compulsary, thats ridiculous. It becomes meaningless and just another thing for companies to exploit, like companies who include the tip in your bill without telling you and then you tip ontop of that tip or companies that use tipping as a reason to pay their employees less. Do I want to be the reason for uncertainty between paycheques because you might not have enough tips this month? No, I want you to be paid a livable wage for doing the work that the company that employs you gets much more money out of and being paid the occassional tip on top of that if you work hard thus promoting hard work.

I agree with this chap on the subject. I will only tip someone if they go above and beyond what they are already paid to do.

I'm just going to quote you all, a thread on tipping is a lot more interesting haha

I am of the English persuasion, and if the service isn't bad, I'll leave a small tip, just to say thanks, £1.50, something like that.

My sister was a waitress for a while, and she got paid £7 an hour (that's like what, $12 an hour?) So not at all bad pay, and in the weeks leading up to Christmas she was bringing in about £50 - £100 a night tips! wish I made that kinda money

In the U.S., she would've been payed ~$4-5/hour(~£2.60-3.20), working 12+ hours six days a week, given maybe a weeks worth of sick days a year, if she were lucky. If not, maybe 3 days. Oh, and she would be given one 10-15 minute break a day. The American Dream people!

 

[FamoFunk]

From what I gathered in the thread, us in the UK are paid a bit more than those in the USA.

Thing is, I'm pretty certain to live and buy things in the USA is still a damn sight cheaper than it is in the UK, things like fuel and food. It's disgusting the amount of VAT and fuel duty we pay for petrol, especially when you need it for work etc.

I think both places are the same regarding work ethnic, you get those who work bloody hard for barely any money and those who think the world owe them something and think they're too good for McDonald's when they're clearly not.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Errr, it's considered douchey not to give a tip.

The people who work as waiters or whatever get paid for doing their job, there's no reason you should feel like you have to throw money at them to do they've already agreed to do.

Yeah, just look at their tipping culture.

In the UK: People give good service and a tip is a nice bonus
In the US: You have to give a tip and not doing so is used as an insult and you will probably get your food spit in if you return.

Errr, it's considered douchey not to give a tip.

Is it? I am british, I dont think its "douchey". If they provide a particularly fantastic service then yes, maybe. But being compulsary, thats ridiculous. It becomes meaningless and just another thing for companies to exploit, like companies who include the tip in your bill without telling you and then you tip ontop of that tip or companies that use tipping as a reason to pay their employees less. Do I want to be the reason for uncertainty between paycheques because you might not have enough tips this month? No, I want you to be paid a livable wage for doing the work that the company that employs you gets much more money out of and being paid the occassional tip on top of that if you work hard thus promoting hard work.

I thought that unless they gave a bad service, it was usually expected. Not agreeing with it, but I was under the impression that was how it was.

Yeah, just look at their tipping culture.

In the UK: People give good service and a tip is a nice bonus
In the US: You have to give a tip and not doing so is used as an insult and you will probably get your food spit in if you return.

Errr, it's considered douchey not to give a tip.

Talking of EU Crisis, how's Ireland doing?

Nice dig, Northern Ireland is doing just fine, you failed pretty badly there. You seem pretty confident to insult me then edit it out, hard man.


And no, it's not rude in the UK to not leave a tip, it's for people who offer great service not just normal service.

Last time we spoke you didn't specify that you were from Northern Ireland, so I'm sorry I had to check for you, even if it was afterwards.

 

[Martin Toney]

I'm irish, but i live in the north or ireland now, so i technically live in the UK, can I weigh in on the matter?

 

[Lethos]

I'm irish, but i live in the north or ireland now, so i technically live in the UK, can I weigh in on the matter?

Spoiler

Okay, I guess I'll grant you permission.