Is Yahtzee a noob?

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Come on, Demon's/Dark Souls fans, you know, and have always known, that the games are niche. Most human beings don't have the time or patience to play such a demanding game. It is complex, and, while fair, absolutely requires that you absolutely master it, and most people want video games to be less of a job. Yahtzee's not a noob for thinking Demon's Souls was too hard, he's an ordinary gamer.

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls most certainly do not require you to master them by any extent.

They expect you to be "pretty good" to get anywhere. Mastering though, is a drastic exaggeration.

If you were to master Demon's/Dark Souls, make an excellent character build and acquire powerful items, you can generally one shot most of the enemies, and if your reflexes/planning are good enough, you could avoid taking hardly any hits whatsoever, which would lead to absolutely massive amounts of extra items you have no use for sitting idly in your inventory.

That would be mastering. Neither game expects even close to that. Trouble is that the majority of people have no concept of what being "pretty good" at a game would even mean, and assume that because they can button mash their way through most recent games (which are deliberately designed to give the player a huge advantage by default already) that means they're good. That simply isn't the case. As it is, for that particular example, button mashing under any circumstance means the player has already failed at having skill from the start and is a bad, impatient player, relying on luck.

And yes, to be perfectly blunt, the "ordinary gamer" is in fact very much bad at games. Which is why games have been turning progressively into "I Win Button" scenarios in order to appeal to a more mainstream audience who zero patience to learn game mechanics or develop any skill.

If you want to play a game which requires you to "master" it, try something like Battletoads or a variety of Bullet Hell games. Demon's/Dark Souls are extremely forgiving by comparison. Hell, there's a lot of retro games in general out there which make the Souls games look like cake. Trouble is that most people are spoiled by the borderline god mode games in recent years. (Which I personally am completely bored shitless of.)

As it is, to top it all off, I've known or seen plenty of players who generally suck at playing video games who have really enjoyed Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Mainly because it's not so much a straight up reflex game like most challenging games are, and a lot of is more based around tactical planning with different strategies against various enemy types and bosses.

Don't get me wrong, the games are certainly hard, but it's difficulty is blown severely out of proportion by people, especially considering how much of a cakewalk most games are (especially in recent years.)

Add me to that list. I generally suck at action games (despite being a longtime gamer), but I beat and thoroughly enjoyed Dark Souls. The games are less about skill and more about patience.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

I don't think it's a question of him being unable to play a game, it's when something (like the difficulty) distracts from the fun that he feels reason to complain. Of course he's awful picky in that regard, but then he's an internet game reviewer. His credentials are that he didn't get outside much as a child, so... *Shrug*

 

[A Shadows Age]

I don't think you're in a position to be judging anyone's gaming ability if you've never seen them play.

Newb = new player

Noob = ignorant player, somebody who blames others/the game for their lack of skill and/or uses game tactics that others frown upon, i.e., noobtubing.

Don't forget, Nub = Someone who does stupid shit on purpose, i.e. strap C4 to self, jump in freindly apc, detonate! Just like ME!

 

[Zedfragg]

I don't know why and I don't mean this in an OVERLY offencive way but...

"Oh shut up you tart!"

I don't know why...It just feels right!

 

[Nomanslander]

Isn't it:

Newb = Someone who is new to a game and doesn't understand it quite yet.
Noob = An insult you hurl at a player who is acting like a total douche.

That's right, and as for that whole douche part, we are talking about Yahtzee here you know, and he's had it coming for a lonnnngggg time...lol

 

[Ragnarok185]

his job is too hate games and entertain us with his rage. nothing more.

 

[Zacharious-khan]

gamers have had their consoles crucified for less heinous accusations you had better speak more carefully Persian.

 

[Krantos]

He doesn't have the hours necessary to dump into games to get proficient at them. Take someone really good at any game and I guarantee they've spent days playing and practicing it. Yahtzee (like all reviewers) doesn't have that amount of time to spend in a game. It's why I'd never want to be a game journalist.

 

[willofbob]

oh, geez.

'lot of hate-spam's gonna be posted over this.

 

[Kurokami]

So after thinking about a lot of his reviews, how he can't stand MP, and how gameplay just doesn't seem to matter to him.

Pain Killer.

I think he has the same motto as most gamers, if you flaunt something, you best damn well be doing it right. Personally I love UT3 because I enjoy the gameplay and the guns, senseless blowing people up is great because that's all it really tries to be, but if I play a game like Heavy Rain which flaunts a great narrative and yada yada, I'm gonna smack it in the face because it keeps nagging me with its gameplay. I get that it tried to be both a movie and a game, but the last thing I want when watching a movie is to keep pressing buttons and miss what's actually happening. To be frank I'd have probably enjoyed it much more if it just played out and showed you a series of choices every once in a while. Right now it can rot in the corner of my living room thinking about what it's done. I think that's why he hates most multiplayer games, when you have to accommodate lots of players you no longer get to do the same shit you would in singleplayer.

That seems like a huge derailment, ho well sorry.

Woe is me, whew is what you say as you wipe beads of sweat off your brow because some death trap in Dark Souls narrowly missed you.

 

[rapidoud]

You're a noob to someone else, and them to someone else, and so on.

I'm (and he is) in every right to judge a game as too hard, I play games for fun (AKA do not give an F about achievements), god forbid Yahtzee does too.

 

[mmmurple]

Try downloading one of his old games, then you can see the style that he prefers. Heavy on the narrative but with simple gameplay mechanics that you are meant to be able to get right first time. That's obviously just what he enjoys: Good plot in a game where you don't see a game over screen every five minutes.
It feels good to play, and the pacing of the game is enjoyable as you are almost always making progress.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

Gameplay doesn't matter to Yahtzee?

What?

I think...what? That's the exact opposite of Yahtzee's position. In Yahtzee's eyes, gameplay is absolutely paramount from everything I've seen, with everything else secondary.

 

[Carnagath]

I dont agree with alot of this.

1) I dont consider demon's/dark souls a survival horror game....it doesnt feel like one, resources arent super scarce and nigh unreplenishable, and rarer things can be farmed. It doesnt have the atmosphere. Its a grimdark RPG set in a crapsack world(not derogatory).
2) first, you are using tropes incorrectly. Demons/ dark souls is a grimdark/crapsack world. I dont know where you got that grimdark was a bad thing, like any style it would be bad if done cheesey.
3)Agreed
4)Not really, its more about memorization and positioning. Whats good when, where not to be, how enemies react to certain acts...an idiot could beat nearly every enemy by holding block and learning thier attack patterns, then only thing that makes you use advanced tactics is PvP and bosses.
5) Mostly true, although thier are times when enemy weapons fly straight through solid objects and can hit you through walls and pillars(not the enemies who can break shit down, just regular dudes), the the characters hitbox appears to extend under you. Been hit a million times by horizontal slashes under my feet when standing on a stump or up stairs.
6) No one has forgotten about that, theres just a level of reasonability and it changes from person to person. Dark souls is unreasonable to some people, as is ninja gaiden. People who want to play games and relax dont want to die 100s of times in the first map of the game less then 20 hours in. Its not fun to them, these ridiculous games are very niche. Not all the best sellers old school or new are stupidly hard, but there is challenge there.
7)Online mode causes control input lag.......in dark souls this is not acceptable.

To each his own though.

1) I really disagree with this. Rarity of resources is not the only characteristic of a survival horror game, it's got more to do with how dangerous the environment is at all times and the player's feeling that the odds are overwhelming against them instead of them kicking ass. It's not something that depends on mechanics alone, but on the overall effect of the gameplay on the player's mentality, and I can't think of any recent games other than DS and STALKER where that is more obvious.

2) I agree and that's what I mean, I should have phrased it differently, I mean that the atmosphere is presented well and in a non ridiculous manner.

4-5) Indeed, you don't have to be really smart to beat either of the games, but there's usually a lot more to it than pattern memorization. That may be the case with weaker enemies, but with most of the mid-level and tougher ones, it's got more to do with rule memorization and reaction timing, since there often is no clear predictable pattern in the way that they will fight you. As a single random example I'd mention blue knights. When you're fighting them with a melee character, it may take you 10 seconds or 2 minutes to kill them, since you can't predict when they will slash, cleave, shield slam or heal themselves, that's just their range and you have to react to what they are doing within really short timeframes.

As for the combat system and weapon physics, I didn't say they are perfect, but at least they are there to a degree that is unusual in most games. In most games you perform an action and the result is an approximation of that, where you let the animation take over and fill in the blanks between what would really happen and what actually happens because they're videogames. In DS they really tried to eliminate that and make the rules a bit more believable. You can't fight an enemy in a small corridor using a huge two handed sword and expect to wield it like everywhere else, you will hit the walls, you will stumble and the enemies will take free stabs at you. You also can't expect to block a concentrated full strength blow with your 100 block awesome shield and be all fine and peachy, your stamina will still die, you will stumble and the next blow will kill you, so you have to try to evade those blows. Those are just examples. Of course the game is not perfect and sometimes shit might clip or hit you on a ladder as you say, but it's still more believable than most games.

6) I fully agree there. That's not the game to play for 2 hours to relax when you come home from work at 9 in the evening, stick to LBP or Kirby games, those are awesome and effortlessly entertaining.

7) Huh... I haven't had that problem and I connect using my sister's wi-fi from the next apartment over, which is not exactly ideal. I guess it depends where you live.

 

[Suijen]

He is a critic, and as a critic, he has to review a whole slew of games, even games he knows he'll dislike. Is he a noob in some categories? Undoubtedly, but he has praised games that were outside his comfort zone. And that's when you know a game is good, when you'll like a game regardless if it's outside your typical comfort zone. Remember when he praised TF 2?

 

[Vault101]

Ive just started dark souls...

I havnt found it too bad but I know Ive bearly screatched the surface, I think the right mindset is very important

I got dark souls (against my better judgement) because I think genally Im not very good at games (excpet mass effect 2 Im pro at that) so I wanted to see how far I could really push myself

also question, whats the point in having your starting class as the "deprived" (girl/guy in your underware) is that just for the super hardcore psychos?

 

[Nomanslander]

The twin engines of video game enjoyment are exploration and mastery.

For those who competitive gaming, mastery is going to be the prime motivator. Yahtzee is not one of those people.He's someone who enjoys exploring a game world, constantly looking for new experiences. He's driven by exploration.

I understand where he's coming from, because I share a lot of his basic biases. I can play and enjoy multi-player... for a while. It's certainly fun, but there comes a point where playing the same map over and over again gets old and I want to go do something else.

I think this has to be the best response I've seen up til now. One thing that's kinda disappointed me on any of Yahtzee's criticism is that he really seems to lack any interest in the competitive aspect of gameplay. For instance he recently trashed Gears of War 3, which has to be one of the most well polished 3rd person shooters ever made. But he doesn't like chest high walls and claims the game's no fun. Fine! If he doesn't like cover base shooting he doesn't like cover base shooting.

If the man likes games for there exploration I've fine with that. And as for why I was so blatant to call the man out as a noob? Well the asshole side of me found it humorous to do so...XP

 

[EvilPicnic]

Whatever your opinion of Yahtzee, I don't think 'newb' is a valid criticism. He's obviously an old-school gamer who knows his shit, and therefore not a 'newb'.

If the man likes games for there exploration I've fine with that. And as for why I was so blatant to call the man out as a noob? Well the asshole side of me found it humorous to do so...XP

So... you pretty much admit to trolling then?

[EDIT]
And with the username 'slander', why am I surprised...?

 

[badgersprite]

Are people still running around calling each other 'newbs' or 'noobs'? Seriously? I would've thought that those terms would've been replaced by shiny new ones by now. Christ, am I old.

I know, right? I thought that term was old and dated a decade ago, and yet here we are.

Is this like a hipster revival thing, like what happened with the '80s? Did this passe trend of olden times fall out of favour, only to swing back into fashion again? Is this like one of those "remakes"?

 

[dday4you]

i'm pretty sure that someone who makes a living off playing and reviewing games are better than gaming than most of us. ITS HIS JOB. THIS IS HOW HE MAKES A LIVING. and why are you trying to guess what game he reviews anyways? he can review whatever the hell he likes. do you realise how difficult it is for him to make a video every week? expecially when those videos are game reviews AND IT TAKES TIME TO PLAY GAMES. what a troll