-ism's on tumblr

[mecegirl]

Congratulations, you've discovered there are extremist assholes on the internet.
Tomorrow's lesson: Water, is it wet?

Also the forever irony of people in the gamer community dismissing tumblr as being horrible because it's an `echo chamber`.
Just don't engage people like that. You guys are anti-censorship, right? So they're gonna have a place to be assholes in.

I manage to use tumblr for fandom stuff without running into this crap, and if I ever run into something sketchy, just roll my eyes and move on.

As for the `die cis scum` crap- seriously, you're offended by that? I'm not. Trans people get murdered a hella fuckin lot, and if they're pissed at cis people I can't really say I blame them.

Good lord this. Just all of this. I mean...people know that they can unfollow people on Tumblr right? The whole of Tumblr is NOT filled with people who think the same way. You might run across someone that you disagree with but you don't have to. There is actually a fair bit of racism on Tumblr. I just choose not to follow people once I notice that they have views that I don't agree with. The same way that I don't follow people if they are into Homestuck because I'm not fan of Homestuck.

And yes gaming communities on the web have a huge echo chamber problem. Most communities have and echo chamber problem. So seeing this complaint makes me laugh as well.

 

[Single Shot]

1) Yes, there is a big difference. But in this case you're literally saying it's okay to discriminate against men in employment opportunities if women benefit.

Excepting, of course, that's not at all what I said.

2) The current system IS quota based ina large chunk of the western world either enforced through law or lawsuits.

Assuming that to be true, the system that was and would still be without it then.

Again, why is informal discrimination against women worse than legalised (and statistically rather less) discrimination against men?

3) I'm not sure what you call a dangerous job but I know of unskilled jobs that can earn up to 40k and involve danger compared to the 17.5k minimum wage for full employment.

Yeah, and? Minimum wage shouldn't be used as a benchmark.

4) A little sample of what I mean from someone with a vagina. It shouldn't make a difference, but you might listen to them http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shanna-b-van-ness/does-the-glass-ceiling-exist-_b_3208384.html
The glass ceiling may well exist, as I said in my post, but the reason isn't what you're implying.

Er, that article says little more than "there's a problem, and we'll have to deal with it ourselves". So?

5) Can you answer my question about women tricking men into having children then claiming support. If not i'll assume you're in favour of it.

You didn't ask a question, you just stated that that happened sometimes, and implied it was a serious problem.

You said that quota systems are okay because they help women. Quota systems discriminate against men. So you agree that discrimination against men is okay if it helps women. That is what you said.

So to have something,is the same as not having it??? huh?
Informal; discrimination is on a person-to-person basis, can be countered by rapidly changeable public opinions, and is almost never seen as good. Legalized discrimination is almost impossible to fight, seen as a good thing by most, and is en masse.

Okay, use the 22k average for an unskilled job instead. 40K is still almost double that for the same experience and qualifications.

That article says "There is a problem, and maybe women are partially to blame in some cases" It's a little more than you read into it.

Okay, fair enough. Now it's a question. What do you think of women who lie about taking contraceptives to take advantage of the legally guaranteed support money.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Thats just a ridiculous thing to say. People have never believed that war is wonderful, you're showing a severe lack of basic history knowledge here.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, or similar sentiments throughout many cultures throughout recorded history.

The notion of the glories of war, or war heroes isn't a strange or new one.

When WW1 broke out, masses of people cheered, and masses of people volunteered to go fight.

1) Girls aren't as strong as men and therefore make poor soldiers (at least before guns were invented).

The average man is stronger than the average woman. That isn't the same thing.

Also, by that logic, the Romans couldn't defeat the Gauls, who were on average larger than they were.

2) Men have a biological bias to want to protect women (and will therefore do things like shield them from war).
Those 2 facts are pretty indisputable,

No, they really, really aren't.

Now, I grant the social element of the second hasn't been pinned down, but there have been various nations which have had large numbers of female soldiers.

(Actually, now that I mention it, I should have specified that I was talking about the male dominated military in the European tradition, which is far from universal. My bad there)

Uh, yes you can. Thats the whole point of equalism, we give everybody equal rights. I mean seriously, that's the definition of 'equal'! You cant make one group of people more equal than another!

Oh, but you can.

More correctly, you can fight to get equality between your group and certain others, and not concern yourself with everyone else. For example, womanism was formed by black women who were sick of being excluded by white feminists, and possibly by male race advocates. Despite excluding them, those people could passionately, and rightfully fight for equality, they just didn't see the need for it to be extended to everyone.

Or, to but it another way, if you ask someone if they are in favour of equal rights for "everyone", without specifying who "everyone" is, they will probably say they are. Ask them instead about a particular group, and the answer might be different, because not everyone includes all groups as "everyone".

For example:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Does "all men" in this context include black slaves?

 

[Angelblaze]

Speaking as someone that actually uses Tumblr...

The amount of people who say 'oh stay away from Tumblr. its a terrible place' then turn around with their posts and go on to describe a community that basically could be described to be well over half the internet, if not the real world planet amuses me greatly.

Congratulations, you've discovered there are extremist assholes on the internet.
Tomorrow's lesson: Water, is it wet?

Also the forever irony of people in the gamer community dismissing tumblr as being horrible because it's an `echo chamber`.
Just don't engage people like that. You guys are anti-censorship, right? So they're gonna have a place to be assholes in.

I manage to use tumblr for fandom stuff without running into this crap, and if I ever run into something sketchy, just roll my eyes and move on.

As for the `die cis scum` crap- seriously, you're offended by that? I'm not. Trans people get murdered a hella fuckin lot, and if they're pissed at cis people I can't really say I blame them.

Yeah, that's the main comedy I'm dying laughing at here.

I think it is just the way Tumblr works (not an expert I only occasionally stumble upon it through web searches linking there). Something extreme is more likely to grab people's attention, so they share it around. This creates a filter that filters out everything sensible and middle ground and leaves the extreme stuff to seem like the only thing being said.

An example if I post "Marx was right! Viva la Revolution!" that will gather a lot more attention than say "we should probably do something about the gap between rich and poor"

Congratulations, that's basically all of media. People enjoy over-saturation and exaggeration of opinion (or it just gets higher ratings, whatever) more then actually fair headed people. It's more entertaining.

 

[Beliyal]

As someone who has been on tumblr for years, I'm surprised when people talk about it like someone forced them to use it, forced them to follow sketchy blogs and forced them to read what certain idiots write. The beauty of tumblr is in the fact that you can completely filter what you want to read and what you don't want to read. Sure, that will not erase the idiots from the site, but no one is in any way forced to come in contact with them. As for why there are idiots; because tumblr is a part of the internet. Everyone with an internet connection can go there and write shit and some people with agree with that shit. This is not news.

Three years on tumblr, and I have very rarely gotten into contact with idiots. When I accidentaly see something ridiculous, I roll my eyes and leave the blog/tag, or I get amused by the amount of notes that consist of normal people telling that idiot how wrong they are. And yes, I've seen horrible things there, but luckily, it's easy to ignore and there are enough other users who argue in my stead. I just go there for pretty pictures, gaming blogs, fandom shit and funny bits.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You said that quota systems are okay because they help women. Quota systems discriminate against men. So you agree that discrimination against men is okay if it helps women. That is what you said.

So to have something,is the same as not having it??? huh?

That only works on the assumption that there ought to be more men than women, that the previous system in which it was male dominated (or, in most cases, more male dominated) was correct.

Informal; discrimination is on a person-to-person basis, can be countered by rapidly changeable public opinions, and is almost never seen as good. Legalized discrimination is almost impossible to fight, seen as a good thing by most, and is en masse.

What do you mean, "seen as good"?

Also, I'd very much question "rapidly changeable public opinions", prejudice doesn't not die easily.

Okay, use the 22k average for an unskilled job instead. 40K is still almost double that for the same experience and qualifications.

Hmmmm...don't know about you, but where I live the average is about 78k.

Are there substantial numbers of unqualified people, enough to throw out the average income between men and women? Secondly, there are problems with men and women being paid different amounts for the same job.

That article says "There is a problem, and maybe women are partially to blame in some cases" It's a little more than you read into it.

I'm not seeing much of a difference there, "need to fix it" blurs over into "at fault for not doing so" quite nicely.

Okay, fair enough. Now it's a question. What do you think of women who lie about taking contraceptives to take advantage of the legally guaranteed support money.

Certainly, that is very wrong.

However, like women having kids to leech off the state, I'd question that this happens in large numbers, and I don't see what can be done about it. Firstly, there'd be no way of proving it, and secondly, the kids would need support regardless of who their parent is.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

I'll agree wholeheartedly with the Fat-Shaming/Thin Privilege one.

I mean yeah, don't be a dick to people. That's a good axiom for life. But people actually trying to create movement out of unhealthy lifestyle choices is silliness. The Thin Privilege is even worse. Actually putting down average people and thinking that decent eating and exercise is some kind of evil conspiracy. It would be funny if it weren't so sad. Actually strike that, it's extremely funny.

Yeah, that's not what privilege is about at all. It's not about some shadowy conspiracy, it's about how society favours some people over others.

Yes... I know.

What I said is that many of the Tumblr blogs make it seem like the people believe it's a shadowy conspiracy.

Some privilege is a real issue. Thin privilege is fairly silly. As I said previously, people should generally try not be be dicks to overweight people. However, there is simply no case to be made that being overweight is somehow a better choice than not.

It's like if people started complaining about "Smart Privilege" because society tends to favor intelligent people.

 

[FrostyChick]

I've been on tumblr for a few months now, and I've been seeing a lot of stuff that's been putting me on edge mostly to do with sexism. It puts me on edge mostly because I am not sure whether I'm wrong in thinking what I am. The people on there seem to be treating feminism like a war on men, as if it's them or us, not actually preaching equality, I saw a post that said "Patriarchy backfiring on men is not sexism against men" with thousands of notes and it bothered me that people could be so sexist when fighting for feminism. A small other thing that bothered me is that people are treating fat-shaming as a deadly sin, I might be wrong, but I see fat-shaming on the same level as calling someone ugly, it shouldn't be done because it's mean to hate on someone for any reason.

I might be over-reacting but I was wondering if you the most intelligent of communities had any insight to whether my moral compass is off a little.

I'm just going to ignore the rest of the thread as it seems to have devolved, as these topics tend to do on the internet. I guess it's inevitable, with these kinds of things. Any emotionally charged topic on the internet will draw hatred and nastiness towards itself.

I personally have a tumblr blog, though I mainly use it for multi-fandom blogging. And to be honest, I have not had any personal bad experiences with the platform. Though I would like to note that I only have 2 followers and I am not really all that active, aside from reblogging.
But... From activity I have seen on other people's blogs, I have seen some people receiving some rather nasty messages over what amounts to literally nothing. For the most part it seems to be just anonymous messages sent by angry impatient fuckwitts who believe there own little brand of special has been slighted or... [gasp] the target is straight, white and cis.
I have been to LGBT activist meetings in my local area, and I can tell you, the shrieking SJW children on tumblr have about as much to do with justice as my have to do with my gender identity, which is to say sweet F all.
Not saying that there aren't any nice people on Tumblr that support good causes like feminism or LGBT rights, it's that they tend to be less loud about their affiliations, or are on Tumblr for different reasons. (like porn, art or fan communities)

 

[Thaluikhain]

Some privilege is a real issue. Thin privilege is fairly silly. As I said previously, people should generally try not be be dicks to overweight people. However, there is simply no case to be made that being overweight is somehow a better choice than not.

Hey?

How does not being a better choice mean than Thin Privilege isn't real? Surely that would likewise invalidate all other privileges?

 

[William Dickbringer]

-snip-

tumblr is the most accepting place as long as you're not a white straight male in 20's with no mental illness cause if you're that then you're sexist racist piece of shit that should go crawl in a hole and die cause you're a ticking time bomb of rape (a little over reacting but I really dislike the social warrior side of tumblr it makes a female representation of video games thread here look like a walk in the park only safe ones are the actors unless they screw up)

 

[Single Shot]

You said that quota systems are okay because they help women. Quota systems discriminate against men. So you agree that discrimination against men is okay if it helps women. That is what you said.

So to have something,is the same as not having it??? huh?

That only works on the assumption that there ought to be more men than women, that the previous system in which it was male dominated (or, in most cases, more male dominated) was correct.

Informal; discrimination is on a person-to-person basis, can be countered by rapidly changeable public opinions, and is almost never seen as good. Legalized discrimination is almost impossible to fight, seen as a good thing by most, and is en masse.

What do you mean, "seen as good"?

Also, I'd very much question "rapidly changeable public opinions", prejudice doesn't not die easily.

Okay, use the 22k average for an unskilled job instead. 40K is still almost double that for the same experience and qualifications.

Hmmmm...don't know about you, but where I live the average is about 78k.

Are there substantial numbers of unqualified people, enough to throw out the average income between men and women? Secondly, there are problems with men and women being paid different amounts for the same job.

That article says "There is a problem, and maybe women are partially to blame in some cases" It's a little more than you read into it.

I'm not seeing much of a difference there, "need to fix it" blurs over into "at fault for not doing so" quite nicely.

Okay, fair enough. Now it's a question. What do you think of women who lie about taking contraceptives to take advantage of the legally guaranteed support money.

Certainly, that is very wrong.

However, like women having kids to leech off the state, I'd question that this happens in large numbers, and I don't see what can be done about it. Firstly, there'd be no way of proving it, and secondly, the kids would need support regardless of who their parent is.

1) No. it works on the very real theory that not all jobs are A) as attractive to both genders, and B) that both genders can be differently qualified on average. Look at my example. 70-80% of qualified people are men, but only 60% of employed people can be men or a lawsuit happens. Are you really saying that the lack of QUALIFIED women means they should all be hired, regardless of their actual individual experience or work ethic.

2) Seen as good, as in seen as a step forwards by society. you yourself are proof of this.

Rapidly changing public opinions, think of it like this, 40 years ago sexism was as common as pie, not it get's dirty looks and condemnation in most areas of society (When it's against women anyway). that's fairly quick for a societal change.

3) The average pay for an UNSKILLED job with NO EXPERIANCE is 78K? Where do you live that's plated in gold and diamonds? Remember, I was comparing these very low level jobs to prove dangerous work (that women stay out of) pays more than other forms of low level work, and so creates the illusion of a pay-gap. In the specific places I've worked, and those I've been involved in, I have never seen a woman being paid less than a man for the same job unless there was some other factor involved like flexi-time, reduced hours, working in a less critical area, or the like.

4) So you see hat women's choices can create the artificial illusion of a glass ceiling? Good, we're making progress, maybe if you did more than say I'm wrong this could go faster?

5) In a 2007 survey of female university students in the UK, 60% reported lying about taking contraceptives at some point in the previous 12 months. In America 2006 a similar study found the figure was 75%. It's more common than people want to believe.
Maybe if the farther had the right to disown the child at a point where it could still be terminated? (assuming he had made no promise of care, had believed contraceptives were in use, and was in a position where providing financial care would ruin his life.)
Women have the rights to abort the foetus if they cannot cope with it, why should men not have a way to escape the life-crushing responsibilities of unplanned parenthood?


P.S. If you could start providing more than just "You're wrong!!!!" I could have an actual discussion instead of just replying with "No, I'm not", and we could actually move on to something productive.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Some privilege is a real issue. Thin privilege is fairly silly. As I said previously, people should generally try not be be dicks to overweight people. However, there is simply no case to be made that being overweight is somehow a better choice than not.

Hey?

How does not being a better choice mean than Thin Privilege isn't real? Surely that would likewise invalidate all other privileges?

I'm saying they're not even equally valid choices. The one has clear and objective disadvantages over the other.

It's only "privilege" in the Tumblr sense if the two are actually equal and the favoring of the one over the other is society being dumb. This is the case with men/women and the various shades of sexuality. This is not the case with fat.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'm saying they're not even equally valid choices. The one has clear and objective disadvantages over the other.

It's only "privilege" in the Tumblr sense if the two are actually equal and the favoring of the one over the other is society being dumb. This is the case with men/women and the various shades of sexuality. This is not the case with fat.

Er...while there are disadvantages, yes, does that justify society treating them as less?

 

[Angelblaze]

Immediate irony, the said less then stellar community this thread claims tumblr to have is being recreated here before our very eyes: half of the people are fighting over what 'privilege' is, 25 percent don't give a shit and the other 25 have literally boarded a ship and sailed the hell away from this thread...as all people should. No offense.


That being said OP, maybe you should just stop trying to get involved in 'isms' on social networking sites like Tumblr - never good places for arguments on anything that isn't fanfiction or any television/movie star that's been in something that aired on BBC.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

If a straight white male invokes the name tumblr three times in the dark, in front of a mirror, after midnight, on the thirteenth day, of the thirteenth month then an evil spirit will steal his testicles.

True story.

 

[oreso]

If you'll forgive the melodrama: being expected to die is not a privilege. What is the draft but an institutional expression of a systemic framework of male disposability?

It's not women who oppress and draft men - it's military male leaders who insist on doing so. It's them who insist that women can't participate in combat, so yes, enjoy your patriarchy [snip]

I cannot help but think you missed the very next paragraph of the post you quoted.

(Before continuing, please do quickly note that I place no blame here, nor do I discount the other points you raise about attitudes to promiscuity, I only wish to give you my own viewpoint on why the The Clown's quote is hurtful to me).

Men are not a homogeneous mass; blaming them is not actually going to help anything. It's not "them" doing this, it's a system of policies created and enforced by individuals. It's male leaders, certainly. It's also women, including (unfortunately) prominent feminists. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather#World_War_I]. But this is besides the point: competing on who is more to blame or who suffers worse is not a way to resolve issues.

Even when the case is as clear cut as forcing people to fight and die, you seem to want to make excuses to blame the victims involved. I apologise if that is not what you intend, but if it is then I have to say I don't think this is very compassionate, as evidenced by the next point.

So whenever I see western male mo-a-ning about draft, I roll my eyes hard. Like yeah, absolutely horrible, bro. This one instance of discrimination which you won't encounter absolutely undermines everything women experienced for thousands of years and have to tolerate still. Wow, much pain, so disposable.

I used the draft as a single extremely clear cut example, (largely) historical as it might be. I also mentioned the life expectancy gap, workplace death gap, homeless gap and the educational attainment gap as more current examples carrying on the same theme. Even the draft is not exactly ancient history, and is still on the books in the US.

But more than those things, it's more about the attitude of your post there. Men's pain does not seem to matter, no matter how grave; up to and including death.

So I'm sorry for mo-a-ning, but all I'm trying to do is get people to care a little.

while media and society try hard to minimize the info about women's participation in military activities.

Source? This sounds interesting to me, since the women in the military seem well-publicised and discussed to me. But that might be from my own skewed perspective; I'm interested in gender topics so I guess I'm more likely to find them.

Thank you for your time.

 

[DaWaffledude]

Also, a lot of well-meaning feminists seem to think the term "feminazi" is directed at them, now now, that term is directed at the people who claimed a newborn baby boy was an enemy of feminism simply because it was a boy.

Unfortunately, no two English speakers seem to speak the same language anymore. Check the comments section of any youtube video where feminism is mentioned and you'll find plenty of examples of people who throw around "Feminazi" like it'll win them a prize.