Israel Q.A.

[asiepshtain]

Your own soldiers have admitted killing unarmed citizens, can you explain that?

I assume the case you're talking about is the accusations laid by two soldiers in Rabin pre-army readying school.
A. They stated they saw others shoot citizens not that they shoot them.
B. Yesterday they confessed to having not seen the incidents in question, but rather that they just heard them as rumors.

However, the IDF doesn't get off that easy. Unarmed citizens were killed by IDF forces, no question about it. Lets review the case of Dr. Izzeldine Abuelaish.

Dr Izzeldine Abuelaish is a palstinian doctor that has worked in Israel for many years, a good man who supported peace and a shared future for our two people, a GOOD man. In the latest conflict a tank shell hit his house killing his daughters and a cousin. They were unarmed and posed no threat and their death is a terrible tragedy.

Can I explain that. Sadly, I can.

A group of solider were confronting a terrorist force in the city, they were under fire from snipers and thought they saw spotters on building A ( people who feed the snipers their targets from a different angle). They requested a supporting tank to fire a shell to the roof of building A, the tank misunderstood their request and opened fire on building B. Killing Dr Izzeldine Abuelaish family.

When a war is waged within civilian population such tragedies are bound to happen, and they truly are tragic events. Which the IDF tried to minimize by asking people to evacuate and Hamas tried to maximize by firing from civilian buildings.

 

[asiepshtain]

Which is the most elite part of the Israel army?

Heh, I can give you an answer but as you can imagine the different units argue about that kind of thing all the time.

There are many elite units in the IDF , I guess some of the most respected are:

-The airborne rescue oops
-Our version of the navy seals
-The Central-branch rangers ( Literal translation, don't know the name in English)
-The air force pilots
-Our intelligence force

And there are many more...

 

[asiepshtain]

Do you believe the existence of Israel is justified?

Yes.
Tell where you're from and we'll carry this on.

 

[asiepshtain]

Wow, this is sort of spooky. My boyfriend and his brother will be going to Israel this summer as part of Project Birthright and they'll be there for 10 days. My boyfriend has tried to calm me down, but I've still be extremely nervous about the two of them going, because as was said, the media is making it out to be very dangerous.

I'm not exactly sure where they will be specifically staying, and I know Israel is a big country and not all areas are "Fallout 3" as you said, but i'm assuming they're going to more historical and religious sites. Is there anything you can say that will ease my mind as someone who lives there on a day to day basis?


Thank you <3

The main religious sites are both heavily guarded and respected by booth sides so they will be relatively safe. And if they're coming with an organized party they'll have instructors and guides to keep them out of trouble. Like I said before it's not the wars you should worry about, it's the traffic.

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Your own soldiers have admitted killing unarmed citizens, can you explain that?

I assume the case you're talking about is the accusations laid by two soldiers in Rabin pre-army readying school.
A. They stated they saw others shoot citizens not that they shoot them.
B. Yesterday they confessed to having not seen the incidents in question, but rather that they just heard them as rumors.

However, the IDF doesn't get off that easy. Unarmed citizens were killed by IDF forces, no question about it. Lets review the case of Dr. Izzeldine Abuelaish.

Dr Izzeldine Abuelaish is a palstinian doctor that has worked in Israel for many years, a good man who supported peace and a shared future for our two people, a GOOD man. In the latest conflict a tank shell hit his house killing his daughters and a cousin. They were unarmed and posed no threat and their death is a terrible tragedy.

Can I explain that. Sadly, I can.

A group of solider were confronting a terrorist force in the city, they were under fire from snipers and thought they saw spotters on building A ( people who feed the snipers their targets from a different angle). They requested a supporting tank to fire a shell to the roof of building A, the tank misunderstood their request and opened fire on building B. Killing Dr Izzeldine Abuelaish family.

When a war is waged within civilian population such tragedies are bound to happen, and they truly are tragic events. Which the IDF tried to minimize by asking people to evacuate and Hamas tried to maximize by firing from civilian buildings.

What about the use of white phosphorus weapons by the israel military?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict

 

[asiepshtain]

Your own soldiers have admitted killing unarmed citizens, can you explain that?

I assume the case you're talking about is the accusations laid by two soldiers in Rabin pre-army readying school.
A. They stated they saw others shoot citizens not that they shoot them.
B. Yesterday they confessed to having not seen the incidents in question, but rather that they just heard them as rumors.

However, the IDF doesn't get off that easy. Unarmed citizens were killed by IDF forces, no question about it. Lets review the case of Dr. Izzeldine Abuelaish.

Dr Izzeldine Abuelaish is a palstinian doctor that has worked in Israel for many years, a good man who supported peace and a shared future for our two people, a GOOD man. In the latest conflict a tank shell hit his house killing his daughters and a cousin. They were unarmed and posed no threat and their death is a terrible tragedy.

Can I explain that. Sadly, I can.

A group of solider were confronting a terrorist force in the city, they were under fire from snipers and thought they saw spotters on building A ( people who feed the snipers their targets from a different angle). They requested a supporting tank to fire a shell to the roof of building A, the tank misunderstood their request and opened fire on building B. Killing Dr Izzeldine Abuelaish family.

When a war is waged within civilian population such tragedies are bound to happen, and they truly are tragic events. Which the IDF tried to minimize by asking people to evacuate and Hamas tried to maximize by firing from civilian buildings.

You sound alot like you are here as a PR man.

Well, I don't get paid if thats what you're asking. I just wanted to clarify some stuff I saw in the media that I thought was wrong. Like I stated in the OP.

And if I were a PR man I wouldn't have brought up the tragic case Dr Izzeldine Abuelaish, a case where Israel has obviously committed a terrible act.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Most experts and myself believe that American intervention in the Middle East and, to a lesser extent, Israel has directly contributed to her current international crisis. If true, America should protect its national interest by rapidly phasing out intervention in the region and shielding ourselves at home from radical Islamic influence.

Should America phase out its involvement in Israel? To what degree and how would this affect the Jewish state? What are the benefits and dangers to the United States of continued involvement?

At this moment, should it be the role of America to mediate and broker a peace? What nation or international bodies should be taking this role? What factors or individuals on one or both sides of the conflict directly obstruct the peace process?

Do you like former president Jimmy Carter?

Thank you for being so earnest and mature about these charged and heady issues.

 

[asiepshtain]

What about the use of white phosphorus weapons by the israel military?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict

"The Israeli army is investigating improper use of WP in this conflict, particularly in one incident in which 20 WP shells were fired in a built-up area of Beit Lahiya"

The use of White phosphorus against military targets is legal, the IDF is currently investigating the accusations of improper use, if soldiers are found guilty they will be jailed of violation the IDF enemy-contact laws, with serious punishment. We are not saints, but we prosecute our sinners.

 

[Sir_Montague]

Hi, fellow Jew here (I can only assume you're Jewish, though true you never mentioned as such). I don't have any particular questions right now, though I'll ask if I think of one. But when you said that you've been hearing misinformation about Israel, could you clarify some it? I'd like to know in case I heard it and didn't realize it was wrong, and maybe you can educate some other people in the same situation.

Thought I would post and say hey as well to fellow Jews... Spent five weeks in Israel several years ago and miss it dearly... Stayed throughout the beginning of the conflict with Lebanon, and hated returning home to the states. Hopefully we can avoid anything bad with this forum as I've encountered in other forums regarding anything remotely resembling Judaism or Israel before...

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Do you believe the existence of Israel is justified?

Yes.
Tell where you're from and we'll carry this on.

Italy, but I dont think that has anything to do with the argument.
I just think the whole we kick you out of your own land thing is kinda off. And really I dont see the point of a Jewish state, I think it was all good before.

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

What about the use of white phosphorus weapons by the israel military?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict

"The Israeli army is investigating improper use of WP in this conflict, particularly in one incident in which 20 WP shells were fired in a built-up area of Beit Lahiya"

The use of White phosphorus against military targets is legal, the IDF is currently investigating the accusations of improper use, if soldiers are found guilty they will be jailed of violation the IDF enemy-contact laws, with serious punishment. We are not saints, but we prosecute our sinners.

You really do sound like a PR man, dont you have any personal opinion on this?
Especially the use of white phosphorus on densely populated areas?

 

[asiepshtain]

The most terrible act is still going on, your cross threading the whole of Palestine with your own people, building communities that go through the whole of Palestine. Basically your giving your own people homes in an occupied country, so your breaking the Geneva convention.

I'm sorry but your reference to the Geneva convention is just wrong. I refer you to United Nations, 1947, Resolution 181. The approval of the creation of Israel, the Jewish State.

http://factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000520.html

You can argue with the morality of Resolution 181 ( i.e. the creation of Israel) but not with it's existence.

 

[bad rider]

What was/is your take about the Gaza conflict?

damm, thats a HUGE question. and I think thats one of the most important things to remember, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the most complex conflicts there ever where. Including elements of religion, politics, territories, culture, globalization, east-west conflict and many more.

Personally, I believe in a two-state solution based on the border of 67 as accepted by the UN with some give and take on both sides. However, Hamas who are now in control of the Gaza strip are a terrorist organization and unlike the PLO are not someone who we can work with. Hamas has publicly pronounced its goal as the death of every Jew alive in the world, not Israel, the world. Kind makes brokering a deal difficult, maybe we can talk them down to just half of the Jewish population. Sadly, Hamas has growing support in the Palestinian population.

I was a supporter of the two-state solution even before the Oslo accords, when it was considered left-wing madness. Sadly with each passing day it seems to grow farther away.

So given that Hamas is to say the least a radical group do you think it's justified for military intervention, if so do you feel it should have been Israeli forces sorting it out, or do you believe there should have been greater measures taken by foreign influences such as the U.N and/or U.S military forces? (Isay U.S as they seem to want to fight terrorism on any level and have come down very one sided on the Gaza conflict.)

 

[asiepshtain]

What about the use of white phosphorus weapons by the israel military?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict

"The Israeli army is investigating improper use of WP in this conflict, particularly in one incident in which 20 WP shells were fired in a built-up area of Beit Lahiya"

The use of White phosphorus against military targets is legal, the IDF is currently investigating the accusations of improper use, if soldiers are found guilty they will be jailed of violation the IDF enemy-contact laws, with serious punishment. We are not saints, but we prosecute our sinners.

You really do sound like a PR man, dont you have any personal opinion on this?
Especially the use of white phosphorus on densely populated areas?

Yeah, I think the son of a ***** who fired these shots should go to fucking jail. And I work in communications( graphic design ) that might account for the professional voice.

EDIT. This entire thread is my personal opinion.

 

[asiepshtain]

Do you believe the existence of Israel is justified?

Yes.
Tell where you're from and we'll carry this on.

Italy, but I dont think that has anything to do with the argument.
I just think the whole we kick you out of your own land thing is kinda off. And really I dont see the point of a Jewish state, I think it was all good before.

Ok, you seem to be missing some vital information on how Israel was created and why. I'm gonna direct you to the "History of Israel" page on Wikipedia as this subject is far too wide for me to accurately cover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Do you believe the existence of Israel is justified?

Yes.
Tell where you're from and we'll carry this on.

Italy, but I dont think that has anything to do with the argument.
I just think the whole we kick you out of your own land thing is kinda off. And really I dont see the point of a Jewish state, I think it was all good before.

Ok, you seem to be missing some vital information on how Israel was created and why. I'm gonna direct you to the "History of Israel" page on Wikipedia as this subject is far too wide for me to accurately cover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

Thanks, but being a massive history connoseur I already know how and why Israel was created, I just think they're not good reasons.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

While I understand many key aspects of much of the Israeli/Middle East conflict there is a key bit that bugs me, and that is the subject of sheba farms. Hezbollah uses this tiny patch of land to justify their ongoing dispute with Israel. Even though I'm well aware that the motivations of Hezbollah have little to do with this patch of space, I cannot see why Israel continues to hold into it. I personally cannot see the strategic advantage of that terrain (Unlike the Golan Heights for example), so I'm left wondering just why exactly do they hold onto it still?

 

[asiepshtain]

The most terrible act is still going on, your cross threading the whole of Palestine with your own people, building communities that go through the whole of Palestine. Basically your giving your own people homes in an occupied country, so your breaking the Geneva convention.

I'm sorry but your reference to the Geneva convention is just wrong. I refer you to United Nations, 1947, Resolution 181. The approval of the creation of Israel, the Jewish State.

http://factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000520.html

You can argue with the morality of Resolution 181 ( i.e. the creation of Israel) but not with it's existence.

Who is talking about Israel? I'm talking about areas of what is considered Palestine that you are building on.

OK, So you are referring specifically to the "Settlements". To those who aren't in the 'Know' the "Settlements" are Israeli small towns located beyond the 67 border. Where, if a two state solution was finalized, would be Palestine.

A few years ago I would have come back with a resounding "You're right!", as a person who supported the two-state solution since before the Oslo accords I see the "Settlements" as one of Israels greatest mistakes, and a major amoral act.

So, I was pleased when we evacuated all "Settlements" from the Gaza strip on august 2005. Even thou this action brought us very, very, close to a civil war. And look what happened, Hamas took over the Gaza strip and turned it into a launch ground for missile attacks on Israel, and where the PLO wanted a two-state solution, Hamas wants the complete destruction of Israel. Today, I'm not so sure about what to do with future "Settlements".

I wish I had a better answer, but I agree that the "Settlements" are amoral. But what can we do?

 

[Lios]

How's the weather there?


I like to bring a lighter side to topics like these.

 

[Azetheros]

Hi! Fellow (generally pro-Israeli) Jew here! Also a new poster, for whatever that's worth...

First of all, SCAMola means settlements today. Like the ones that were evacuated a few years ago. Or housing developments at East Jerusalem (which some people here still think should belong to Palestine). Or any other set of Jews/Israelis living across the border, into Gaza.

Also, I want the accusations that Israel is an apartheid state cleared up, preferably with evidence to throw in the face of those I'd have to argue with. *Are* are Arab Israeli citizens denied any rights? *Are* areas of mostly Arab Israelis (or even areas of mostly Arabs who aren't Israeli) underdeveloped? *Is* there any sort of separate-but-equal going on?

I also want to ask about the Jerusalem question. I know the official government stance is that Jerusalem is the indivisible and eternal capital of the state, but do you feel it should not be divided? Do most Israelis feel this way? If it came to the point where a workable peace could be reached in exchange for a division, do you think the government would take it despite their official position?

That said, I want to talk about Geneva Conventions. Like how it's a violation of Geneva Conventions to use civilian buildings to shelter soldiers. Or how its a violation of Geneva conventions to have soldiers out of uniform, or to use ambulances, schools, or hospitals for military purposes. And how its also a violation of Geneva conventions for them to deliberately target civilians, which Hamas has indisputably done*. I also want to ask this question of everyone: can we really negotiate with people who believe in genocide? And don't say they can't possibly do it, or that becoming part of the process will moderate them. That's exactly what some of us here in the US, as well as in the UK and elsewhere, said about the National Socialist party in Germany in 1936, and look where that ended up.

*I'd like to clarify this: the IDF has killed loads of civilians. But, at least officially they were targeting terrorists who hid among those civilians. Hamas both targets civilians in Israel and deliberately hides among civilians, in order to maximize civilian casualties, (in my opinion) to them show them to TV cameras around the world in hopes that the world will pounce on Israel for them.