Israel Q.A.

[cuddly_tomato]

I know Israel is in a MAJOR water crisis, which is why they have been stealing all the water from the West Bank and Gaza, and not just from the rivers, Israel has actually been pumping out the West Banks ground water.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060626/taamallah

Syria is a nation where the vast majority of the land is desert and is far away from any water source.

Israel is (mostly) squished up against the Mediterranean. They could easily build plants on the coast for desalinization, but it looks to me like they have no wish to do that while they can steal the water from their neighbours, hoping make their enemies even more desperate and even less likely to seek a peaceful solution to the problems there.

As I said before, this is a subject I'm not informed on but I find the article above to be very biased in both tone and reasoning. Aside from that, building desalinization factories takes about a decade and people usually drop dead of thirst in about 3-4 days. Still not sold.

That article is accurate.

If you think Israel is suffering from a water shortage, just how poorly do you think Palestine are doing in comparison? You already have some power plants for desalinization, they have no desalinization facilities at all, as well as a severely damaged infrastructure due to all the bombs and tanks that tend to blow their shit up.

"hoping make their enemies even more desperate and even less likely to seek a peaceful solution to the problems there" - why the hell would we want that?

Israel has very good reasons to believe it can outlast and outlive its opposition in a long term confrontation. As well as crippling them with economic sanctions, there is that pressing water shortage that is affecting the whole region (that Israel is intentionally making worse). Even if a free, peaceful and fully democratic Palestine came into being today, the fact is it life would be unsustainable for the millions of citizens it would represent.

What Israel is failing to realize is that they can't compete militarily with their opposition. As with the United States in Vietnam (and now Iraq), the Soviets in Afghanistan, or the Romans in Germany, sustained occupation by a superior military power against a guerrilla resistance is a costly affair and the military economics favor resistance. Consider the expense of Hezbollah's Katyusha rockets versus Israel's air force raids, or the Gaza snatch-and-grab operation versus Israel's punitive measures. In the long run, over decades or centuries, the odds are against Israel in military terms.

"Road maps" and "Peace processes" are an illusion. Neither side wants peace. Both have excellent reasons to believe they will hang on longer than the other, that they will "win".

 

[ElephantGuts]

What are the attitudes towards Israeli atheists? Is it acceptable to be Israeli and not Jewish?

As an atheist I can answer personally. I have never felt any attack on me based on being an atheist. Wait, I just remembered. When I was 14, I ate something not Kosher and some kid threw rocks at me, only time.

So you aren't Jewish! I would feel bad for assuming you were but I did catch that you didn't say you were and I mentioned it.

Which is also intriguing to me. I considered becoming atheist; I don't believe in the religious aspects of, well, any religion. I completely believe in evolution and science and all that. If I was Christian then I definetly would have become Atheist, because there are so many Christians it isn't special or anything to be one. But I remain Jewish because I feel like it's more than a religion; it's a culture, maybe a race? (though I'm not getting into that debate again) I'm proud to be Jewish and I feel connected to other Jews.

It might also help that I belong to a Reform Temple, so I'm not required to get too involved with my religion. I don't keep Kosher, I just go to Temple occasionally, which is fine. I don't feel like there's any conflict between listening to stories from the Torah and knowing that none of that God stuff is true. Times change; I'm willing to take Judaism for what it is today.

If you wouldn't mind saying (and that's fine if you do mind), what made you become Atheist? Were your parents Atheist too or did you make that decision yourself?

 

[asiepshtain]

"hoping make their enemies even more desperate and even less likely to seek a peaceful solution to the problems there" - why the hell would we want that?

Because your government is made up of fascists who intend to annex gaza and whatever area of land they think would make a nice addition too the people of Israel, make your self a favor and don't vote for the far right winged next time. Or the time after that for that matter.

You may think your just fighting for freedom but i am pretty sure that underneath the surface your government has darker plans waiting to unfold as well.

A. It would be the work of about 15-25 minutes to carpet bomb the Gaza strip, killing every single inhabitant. If we wanted to ( we don't ), we could have done so easily.

B. I voted "Meretz", left wing socialists.

C. The Gaza strip is small and worthless land, most of Israeli citizens don't care about it. Some fanatical religious do, but they are view as lunies.

D. The leading party in the new government is "Likud" a right-wing captilaist party, but not extreme and definitely not fascist. Think the USA republican party.

 

[lee99]

How does a largely Jewish Country which is run by a Government which is near universally Jewish square itself with killing? With war?

Are are Palestinians not to welcome when the religion teach acceptance of 'foreigners'? Why instead of being welcomed are they are oppressed with restrictions on ownership, movement and curfews?[/quote]

We have to go to war since were getting attacked we cant sit still and let them shot us
we have the right to defend our self
The Palestinians are not welcomed here because extreme terror groups(hamas , hizbollah etc) will infiltrate suicide bombers into our country and bomb public and civilan places which will cause many civilian casualties , aswell as we dont want to be overrunned by refugees

 

[asiepshtain]

What are the attitudes towards Israeli atheists? Is it acceptable to be Israeli and not Jewish?

As an atheist I can answer personally. I have never felt any attack on me based on being an atheist. Wait, I just remembered. When I was 14, I ate something not Kosher and some kid threw rocks at me, only time.

So you aren't Jewish! I would feel bad for assuming you were but I did catch that you didn't say you were and I mentioned it.

Which is also intriguing to me. I considered becoming atheist; I don't believe in the religious aspects of, well, any religion. I completely believe in evolution and science and all that. If I was Christian then I definetly would have become Atheist, because there are so many Christians it isn't special or anything to be one. But I remain Jewish because I feel like it's more than a religion; it's a culture, maybe a race? (though I'm not getting into that debate again) I'm proud to be Jewish and I feel connected to other Jews.

It might also help that I belong to a Reform Temple, so I'm not required to get too involved with my religion. I don't keep Kosher, I just go to Temple occasionally, which is fine. I don't feel like there's any conflict between listening to stories from the Torah and knowing that none of that God stuff is true. Times change; I'm willing to take Judaism for what it is today.

If you wouldn't mind saying (and that's fine if you do mind), what made you become Atheist? Were your parents Atheist too or did you make that decision yourself?

Well, I was born Jewish, and culturally I still am. My family is Jewish but secular, as are the majority of Israeli Jews. I had a bar mitzvah and my son is circumcised, but these were done out of cultural debt and not out of religious beliefs.

As to the subject of my personal beliefs and how I came upon them, thats the subject of a much larger debate. I call myself an atheist as it is the simplest and fastest way to describe my life style, my actual beliefs are quite complex and ever-changing. It is a subject very close to my heart and one I intend to write a book about in the future, a decade or two from now, once I feel I reached the final conclusions.

However, my Jewish background is a vital part of my identity and one I have no problem identifying with, even thou I hold different beliefs now.

 

[Nutcase]

asiepshtain:

Israel is a "Jewish state". Yet it has a decently large Muslim minority which has birth rates well over Israeli average. If things go on without something changing significantly, this will eventually lead to the minority gaining political power, which they currently do not have despite some token representatives in the Knesset. In the long run, it is possible for them to become the majority. At that point (and realistically, far before that) if the state is to stay democratic, it will have to become secular instead of institutionally Jewish. To preserve the state as a Jewish apparatus would seem to require abandoning democracy in favor of apartheid, carrying out a mass expulsion of non-Jews, or other drastic measures.

What do the majority of Israeli Jews think regarding this? How do they want to deal with it?

 

[asiepshtain]

That article is accurate.

If you think Israel is suffering from a water shortage, just how poorly do you think Palestine are doing in comparison? You already have some power plants for desalinization, they have no desalinization facilities at all, as well as a severely damaged infrastructure due to all the bombs and tanks that tend to blow their shit up.

Israel has very good reasons to believe it can outlast and outlive its opposition in a long term confrontation. As well as crippling them with economic sanctions, there is that pressing water shortage that is affecting the whole region (that Israel is intentionally making worse). Even if a free, peaceful and fully democratic Palestine came into being today, the fact is it life would be unsustainable for the millions of citizens it would represent.

What Israel is failing to realize is that they can't compete militarily with their opposition. As with the United States in Vietnam (and now Iraq), the Soviets in Afghanistan, or the Romans in Germany, sustained occupation by a superior military power against a guerrilla resistance is a costly affair and the military economics favor resistance. Consider the expense of Hezbollah's Katyusha rockets versus Israel's air force raids, or the Gaza snatch-and-grab operation versus Israel's punitive measures. In the long run, over decades or centuries, the odds are against Israel in military terms.

"Road maps" and "Peace processes" are an illusion. Neither side wants peace. Both have excellent reasons to believe they will hang on longer than the other, that they will "win".

In regards to the article I would be convinced if you posted numerous other sources supporting it's claims, as I find that one questionable, saying "That article is accurate" doesn't convince me.

As for the rest of your post, I find it odd in the extreme, you are basically saying that both sides are evil and amoral, and that you simply believe the Palestinian will win?

OK, you think they'll win in a few centuries, I rather hope we can settle the debate before that.

 

[Chinchama]

An Israeli CO shot and killed a young girl, because he believe the younglin was carrying C4/w/e in her damn school bag. And he shot her multiple times to confirm that she was dead. I really don't know what to think of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at this point. A tiger that keeps getting pat on his back, and supported by the west, and a rat that keep uh, biting back at the tiger's paws. Courageous, foolish, human instinct of survival at work, I don't really care to understand it anymore.

So my question is, why wasn't Israel rebuilt in friendly region? You know, Texas? South America? Jerusalem belong to everyone, not just the Jew.

If Israel had never been created things would be significantly easier. I am gonna go ahead and put the Israel-Palestinian conflict on Hitler. Or whoever it was that decided Israel should be created over Jerusalem. However, something needed to happen, you couldn't just return a bunch of Holocaust survivors back home where people were still terribly prejudiced against them. However going out and taking over someone else's land and saying, oh, this is now for jews, was a poor idea. I think the Allied countries should've harbored jews and allowed them to immigrate easily into places in the world where they we re accepted. Which still leaves a fair part of Eastern Europe and all of the U.S., that might've worked better, but who am I to know?

Anyways what's past is past and we have to deal with what is going on now. Frankly, people on either side of the line just need to grow up learn how to share, it really should be that simple.

 

[MrJman101]

Hey asiepshtain,

I recently came back from living in israel for several months, first living in kibbutz yagur (near haifa) and then living in an apartment in tel aviv. Recently returning ive decided to return to israel, making aliyah and becoming a chayel boded.

I'm 18 years old and would probably be making aliyah with garin tzabar if you know them.
My question is if you had any advice about army and any recommendations about which unit i should join (if you were kravie).

 

[asiepshtain]

asiepshtain:

Israel is a "Jewish state". Yet it has a decently large Muslim minority which has birth rates well over Israeli average. If things go on without something changing significantly, this will eventually lead to the minority gaining political power, which they currently do not have despite some token representatives in the Knesset. In the long run, it is possible for them to become the majority. At that point (and realistically, far before that) if the state is to stay democratic, it will have to become secular instead of institutionally Jewish. To preserve the state as a Jewish apparatus would seem to require abandoning democracy in favor of apartheid, carrying out a mass expulsion of non-Jews, or other drastic measures.

What do the majority of Israeli Jews think regarding this? How do they want to deal with it?

A very good question, salute.

First thing first, the representatives of the Israel-Muslims in the Knesset are in no way tokens, they are fully fledged members of the Knesset with the authority and status of any other member of the opposition parties.

Now lets talk religion and state. The act of separation of state and religion is very complex in Israel, most complex I think. How do you separate religion from a country which was based on a people who were bound by that religion. It is a difficult question that we struggle with constantly here. What does it mean to be Israeli? To be Jewish? To be both?

What is a Religious-Democratic state, and is it an oxymoron?

The argument of the Muslim minority having a birth rate well over Israeli average is referred to as the "Demographic Argument" in Israel, and is used constantly by the militant right. I tell you I completely disagree with this argument. The birth rate isn't as different as represented in the media, the change you talk of would take more then a hundred years, if not longer considering Jewish people moving to Israel from other countries. I believe the changes in human culture in those hundred years will create such major changes on the conflict ( if it persists for that longer ) that we can not predict that future situation.
As for an Israeli state with a Jewish minority, I see no problem with that, Jews aren't treated different by law in Israel ( Thou religion based discrimination is rampant, even thou it is illegal ). The state language will remain Hebrew, it's holidays remain Jewish, every Jew will be welcomed as a citizen and Jews won't be discriminated against. That is what was envisioned for Israel, as long as this is maintained, I don't mind being a minority.

 

[MrJman101]

asiepshtain:

Israel is a "Jewish state". Yet it has a decently large Muslim minority which has birth rates well over Israeli average. If things go on without something changing significantly, this will eventually lead to the minority gaining political power, which they currently do not have despite some token representatives in the Knesset. In the long run, it is possible for them to become the majority. At that point (and realistically, far before that) if the state is to stay democratic, it will have to become secular instead of institutionally Jewish. To preserve the state as a Jewish apparatus would seem to require abandoning democracy in favor of apartheid, carrying out a mass expulsion of non-Jews, or other drastic measures.

What do the majority of Israeli Jews think regarding this? How do they want to deal with it?

A very good question, salute.

First thing first, the representatives of the Israel-Muslims in the Knesset are in no way tokens, they are fully fledged members of the Knesset with the authority and status of any other member of the opposition parties.

Now lets talk religion and state. The act of separation of state and religion is very complex in Israel, most complex I think. How do you separate religion from a country which was based on a people who were bound by that religion. It is a difficult question that we struggle with constantly here. What does it mean to be Israeli? To be Jewish? To be both?

What is a Religious-Democratic state, and is it an oxymoron?

The argument of the Muslim minority having a birth rate well over Israeli average is referred to as the "Demographic Argument" in Israel, and is used constantly by the militant right. I tell you I completely disagree with this argument. The birth rate isn't as different as represented in the media, the change you talk of would take more then a hundred years, if not longer considering Jewish people moving to Israel from other countries. I believe the changes in human culture in those hundred years will create such major changes on the conflict ( if it persists for that longer ) that we can not predict that future situation.
As for an Israeli state with a Jewish minority, I see no problem with that, Jews aren't treated different by law in Israel ( Thou religion based discrimination is rampant, even thou it is illegal ). The state language will remain Hebrew, it's holidays remain Jewish, every Jew will be welcomed as a citizen and Jews won't be discriminated against. That is what was envisioned for Israel, as long as this is maintained, I don't mind being a minority.

Not to mention the religious hasidic and the religious nationalitic settlers feel like they have to complete with the arabs and often have families that are quite large compared to the secular majority. I wouldn't worry though, aliyah (the jewish right of immigration) is still going strong, and while most russian/ussr jews have immigrated there is a increase in north american jews making aliyah due to a growing sense of zionism and because of the economy

 

[asiepshtain]

BOTH?? YOU ASSWHIPE YOU DISGUST ME YOU CALL 11 DEATHS TO OVER 1500 well yeah we we're hurt 2 ya know FUCK YOU.

I Have never had anything against the Israeli but Decimating the population of a bordering Country and then because they threw well...
Let's take this as a melee... The Palestinian Guy is poking the Israeli with a stick Disgruntled for being locked away and spited so much. Finally the Israeli is sick of the poking and decides to shank the Palestinian with a Chainsaw. hen the Palestinian surprisingly is not "mortally wounded but just hurt very much" and he tries to fend off the Israeli towering above him.
Then the Israeli is very tired of the Palestinian and decides to beat away at him some more with a baseball bat

I see that Hamas are considered as Terrorists but so was Saddam Hoessein and Iraq was better of with him then without
Perhaps Hamas is best for Palestina.. I know that they arn't cool guys or normal or anything but they we're chosen and for a reason
Also after so many death the Palistinian people started shooting back stuff which we're mere fireworks sometimes called Big rockets by Isreal Would you just let your people die because of shit I think not (now don't throw the argument back in my face for Israel because it doesn't apply!)

I'd love to here your response but I already think I know what it's going to be
unless your not so simple minded as so many others
PS: to all you Retarded Americans I'm Irish and proud so don't throw bullshit in my face about being a Paki or shit
PPS: if you are now wondering Yes I support the IRA Though I don't agree with everything that has ever been done in it's name but Britain needs to get the fuck out Slaves we have been to long to you

Wow, this is a bit of a mess, but I can see you're upset, I'll try to address the points as I understand them.

"BOTH?? YOU ASSWHIPE YOU DISGUST ME YOU CALL 11 DEATHS TO OVER 1500 well yeah we we're hurt 2 ya know FUCK YOU."

Yes. Both. Would you like to extend your condolences to those 11 families, the mothers, fathers and sons whose life you so easily look over?
When I said both however, I was referring not only to the specific conflict but to the overall suffering of both people.

"Let's take this as a melee... The Palestinian Guy is poking the Israeli with a stick"

Sadly this isn't a melee, not broken noses and bruised egos. The following is from the Sderot wikipedia page:

"Sderot, less than a mile from Gaza, has borne the brunt of Palestinian rocket attacks since 2000. These have killed 13 residents, wounded hundreds, caused millions of dollars in damage, and disrupted daily life as well as the local economy.[3] Nearly all residents have been traumatized by the frequent sound of air-raid sirens and explosions of incoming projectiles. All local schools have been fortified.[5] From mid-June 2007 to mid-February 2008, 771 rockets and 857 mortar bombs were fired at Sderot and the western Negev, an average of three or four each a day.[4] Studies done in recent years show that the continued rocket fire and the large number of shock victims have led to post traumatic stress disorder among many of Sderot's residents (close to 30%).[6]"

"Perhaps Hamas is best for Palestina"

After Hamas were elected they lynched the opposition party people and began a execuating people blamed of things like homosexuality and women wearing seductive clothing. Yeah, real fun for Palestina.

"Would you just let your people die because of shit I think not"

What? Seriously, what? Can't even start decoding this one.

 

[Arrers]

While it is ture that Hamas and gaza are not entirely innocent, most people are against Israel is that they are the military power of the middle east, and that the have commited a few very public atrocities of late.


The thing that I feel is the most strange about the conflict is how similar the two side actually are. Their ideologies come from the same deity, and they both have the same stake to that area of land. But they are both (seemingly) completly steadfast in their refusal to admit it. Course if the anti-religious type, you could equate this mentality to the first commandment which could lead to an interpretation that they are not following the "true God".
It's a curse of the monotheistic religions,really.

All I'm saying is; Give peace a chance.

What about the use of white phosphorus weapons by the israel military?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict

"The Israeli army is investigating improper use of WP in this conflict, particularly in one incident in which 20 WP shells were fired in a built-up area of Beit Lahiya"

The use of White phosphorus against military targets is legal, the IDF is currently investigating the accusations of improper use, if soldiers are found guilty they will be jailed of violation the IDF enemy-contact laws, with serious punishment. We are not saints, but we prosecute our sinners.

Aren't white phosphorous bombs an illegal weapon? If that is the case the Isreali army shouldn't have them in the first place.

 

[asiepshtain]

All I'm saying is; Give peace a chance.

Aren't white phosphorous bombs an illegal weapon? If that is the case the Isreali army shouldn't have them in the first place.

I wish we could, I really do.

White phosphorous is legal when used on military targets, it is a weaker version of normal phosphorous which main affect is smoke and has a secondary effect of burning. It is in fact a deliberately lighter (not the right word but I can't think of a better one) from of phosphorous so it could be legally used.

 

[Arrers]

I also wish to sate my concern of the description of Israel as a "Jewish state". It goes against one of the oldest principals of government: the separation of church and state. To me it gives the impression that the Israeli government is letting ideology and dogma influence its policy, turning what Israel needs to show itself defence into something starting to approaching a crusade. And this could be important to Israel's survival of a sate. Of course this is simply paraniod ramblings, but it would be a pity if Israel became a victim of her own pride.

 

[asiepshtain]

So do what do you feel the general populations reaction was to Israel's military advance into Gaza?

Very hard for me to answer as it would be completely based on the people I know and who are around me. More for it then against it I guess, as can be seen from the following election ( most militant, right-wing government we ever had).

 

[bad rider]

snip

BOTH?? YOU ASSWHIPE YOU DISGUST ME YOU CALL 11 DEATHS TO OVER 1500 well yeah we we're hurt 2 ya know FUCK YOU.

I Have never had anything against the Israeli but Decimating the population of a bordering Country and then because they threw well...
Let's take this as a melee... The Palestinian Guy is poking the Israeli with a stick Disgruntled for being locked away and spited so much. Finally the Israeli is sick of the poking and decides to shank the Palestinian with a Chainsaw. hen the Palestinian surprisingly is not "mortally wounded but just hurt very much" and he tries to fend off the Israeli towering above him.
Then the Israeli is very tired of the Palestinian and decides to beat away at him some more with a baseball bat

I see that Hamas are considered as Terrorists but so was Saddam Hoessein and Iraq was better of with him then without
Perhaps Hamas is best for Palestina.. I know that they arn't cool guys or normal or anything but they we're chosen and for a reason
Also after so many death the Palistinian people started shooting back stuff which we're mere fireworks sometimes called Big rockets by Isreal Would you just let your people die because of shit I think not (now don't throw the argument back in my face for Israel because it doesn't apply!)

I'd love to here your response but I already think I know what it's going to be
unless your not so simple minded as so many others
PS: to all you Retarded Americans I'm Irish and proud so don't throw bullshit in my face about being a Paki or shit
PPS: if you are now wondering Yes I support the IRA Though I don't agree with everything that has ever been done in it's name but Britain needs to get the fuck out Slaves we have been to long to you

Cool down It isn't his decision and what happend has happpend and is far beyond asiepshtain's control. If you want to shout angrily about the injustice go protest send letters. This is a question and answer, not a question and answer then debate the morality.

 

[bad rider]

So do what do you feel the general populations reaction was to Israel's military advance into Gaza?

Very hard for me to answer as it would be completely based on the people I know and who are around me. More for it then against it I guess, as can be seen from the following election ( most militant, right-wing government we ever had).

Final question. Now I'm sorry its a question I would only ask on the internet. Do you feel you have a right to be where you are right now and do you have sympathy for the people in Gaza because of the nature of which Israel became a country?

 

[cuddly_tomato]

That article is accurate.

If you think Israel is suffering from a water shortage, just how poorly do you think Palestine are doing in comparison? You already have some power plants for desalinization, they have no desalinization facilities at all, as well as a severely damaged infrastructure due to all the bombs and tanks that tend to blow their shit up.

Israel has very good reasons to believe it can outlast and outlive its opposition in a long term confrontation. As well as crippling them with economic sanctions, there is that pressing water shortage that is affecting the whole region (that Israel is intentionally making worse). Even if a free, peaceful and fully democratic Palestine came into being today, the fact is it life would be unsustainable for the millions of citizens it would represent.

What Israel is failing to realize is that they can't compete militarily with their opposition. As with the United States in Vietnam (and now Iraq), the Soviets in Afghanistan, or the Romans in Germany, sustained occupation by a superior military power against a guerrilla resistance is a costly affair and the military economics favor resistance. Consider the expense of Hezbollah's Katyusha rockets versus Israel's air force raids, or the Gaza snatch-and-grab operation versus Israel's punitive measures. In the long run, over decades or centuries, the odds are against Israel in military terms.

"Road maps" and "Peace processes" are an illusion. Neither side wants peace. Both have excellent reasons to believe they will hang on longer than the other, that they will "win".

In regards to the article I would be convinced if you posted numerous other sources supporting it's claims, as I find that one questionable, saying "That article is accurate" doesn't convince me.

As for the rest of your post, I find it odd in the extreme, you are basically saying that both sides are evil and amoral, and that you simply believe the Palestinian will win?

OK, you think they'll win in a few centuries, I rather hope we can settle the debate before that.

I never said anywhere that Palestine will win. I said that they have good reasons to believe they will. Israel has equally good reasons to believe it will. If either side thought they had more to gain from peace than from war this would have been sorted out by now. Hence my personal viewpoint - they (EDIT: The nations respective hard liners) are as bad as each other.

As for the water issue...

http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2002/02/26/blood/

http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1211

...the basic problem in the region revolves around water, and global warming gets worse so will this situation.

 

[PersianLlama]

How would you feel about internationalizing Jerusalem, or giving a part of your land to Palestine? (Obviously neither of these are going to happen any time soon) Why would you agree/why not? (In regards to the above question)

Also, do you support the Ottawa treaty? It's for the removal of landmines worldwide, it's pretty old 10 years or so, and if I remember correctly, Israel hasn't signed it. The U.S., China and some other countries haven't signed it either.

edit:
Yes. Both. Would you like to extend your condolences to those 11 families, the mothers, fathers and sons whose life you so easily look over?

It's harder to look over the families, mothers, and fathers of 1500 Palestinians.

And I extend my condolences to anybody who has had a family member die, especially from war/conflict because that disgusts me.