It Dawned on me Today... [Skyrim]

[SajuukKhar]

are you even listening to what you are saying? You are aware that the empire lost their Capital city to the thalmor right? that's hardly "taking the fight to them" the empire got it's balls rocked in it's own lands!

and what do you mean "the Reguards "victory" only shows that they barely were able to stalemate the thalmor". you say that likes it's a bad thing! the alone did what the "empire" could not. Like I said, it seems to me like the empires generals are just completely incompetent.

Do you even know what happened in the war?
Do you know what Cyrod was like shortly before the war?

I would assume not

The Thalmor launched a surprise attack on a weakened Cyrod.

The Empire mustered a great defense and was able to reclaim the capital city.

by the time the war was over, most of cyrodil's cities were on fire, no leigon had more then 50% of its troops, and The Thalmor had a unknown number of men left, with practically untouched lands.
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Also it took the BEST FIGHTERS in all of tamriel years of constant fighting to even stalemate The thalmor, they, nor the Nords, nor the united empire had the strenth to take the war to The thalmor's homelands, which would be needed for victory.

The untied Empire could hold its lands, but that is not enough to defeat The Thalmor, it would have turned into a war of attrition, and in a war of attrition The Thalmor would have won.

 

[Darkmantle]

are you even listening to what you are saying? You are aware that the empire lost their Capital city to the thalmor right? that's hardly "taking the fight to them" the empire got it's balls rocked in it's own lands!

and what do you mean "the Reguards "victory" only shows that they barely were able to stalemate the thalmor". you say that likes it's a bad thing! the alone did what the "empire" could not. Like I said, it seems to me like the empires generals are just completely incompetent.

Do you even know what happened in the war?
Do you know what Cyrod was like shortly before the war?

I would assume not

The Thalmor launched a surprise attack on a weakened Cyrodil.

The Empire mustered a great defense and was able to reclaim the capital city.

by the time the war was over, most of cyrodil's cities were on fire, no leigon had more then 50% of its troops, and The thalmor had a unknown number of men left, with practically untouched lands.

most of cyrodils cities were on fire, not skyrim or the other provinces. Again, this speaks of incompetence of imperial generals. Why should I back the same people who lost the first time, and trust them to not cock it up the second time? you keep saying things and never giving me any reasons.

EDIT: as for your edit, it doesn't matter how great your warriors are if your generals can't command, and that's what appears to have happened. It seems redguard and nord generals are much better at their job.

 

[pneuvo]

Going neutral seems to be the way. The Empire was ready to chop off my head for no good reason, so it is hard to side with them. The Stormcloaks are a bit too racist to want to identify with them.

 

[SajuukKhar]

most of cyrodils cities were on fire, not skyrim or the other provinces. Again, this speaks of incompetence of imperial generals. Why should I back the same people who lost the first time, and trust them to not cock it up the second time? you keep saying things and never giving me any reasons.

The entirety of Hammerfell's southern coast, which has most of its cities, were seized by The Thalmor and partially destroyed. the best fighters in Tamriel failed to defend their own stuff.
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Also how are the imperial generals incompetent when The Thalmor sneak attacked them and they were already weakened by ages of infighting over the Dragon-thone?

You either have no understanding of the stae cyrod was in at the time or are ignoring it.

When The Thalmor attacked Cyrod wasn't in the prospers fully armed and battle ready state it was in Oblivion, it was a wreak from infighting.

The Mede Empire is only able to repair it so fast

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

The Stormcloaks are just stupid, fighting against the Empire their god created? That's ridiculous like if Christians just decided to nuke the entire planet if Christianity got banned.

Not disagreeing with your overall point, but the Empire in Skyrim is not the Empire of Tiber Septim... The Nords have no real religious obligation to give their allegiance to the Emperor Titus Mede...

 

[SajuukKhar]

Racist assholes? You base this on what? The Stormcloaks goal is to rid Skyrim of Imperial control hence the "Skyrim for Nords". Some nords are bigot retards. Good job on you for pulling an entire rebellion over the same edge. People do not rebel for no reason. Besides the Aldmeri dominion isn't as a huge and looming threat as you'd think. The Red Guard flat out kicked their asses when they tried invading them. The Empire is weak and pathetic and is only sucking Skyrim dry for it's silver and warriors. They are right to rebel. Is it a good timing? Not really as the situation is likely to be exploited by the Thalmor. The High King was weak and a sycophant to the Empire. Do I think Ulfric acted right? Well he did kill the king lawfully. But his motives are anything but well-meaning. The rebellion itself however isn't bad it's just being exploited by a total **** of a leader. However Ulfric will be a stronger king than Torygg or his whore wife Eilisif.

The Redguard were barely able to stalemate The Thalmor.

Saying they "kicked The Thalmor's asses" is factually wrong.

 

[Darkmantle]

most of cyrodils cities were on fire, not skyrim or the other provinces. Again, this speaks of incompetence of imperial generals. Why should I back the same people who lost the first time, and trust them to not cock it up the second time? you keep saying things and never giving me any reasons.

The entirety of Hammerfell's southern coast, which has most of its cities, were seized by The Thalmor and partially destroyed.
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yeah, and all those were losts while imperial generals were in command. As soon as the redguards took matters in their own hands, they won! sur-fucking-prize. I see skyrim going this exact same way.

I fail to see how the empire defended it's own lands, the thalmor only left after making cyrodil it's puppet. Thalmor agents are all through the empire. they own the empire right now.

 

[Darkmantle]

Racist assholes? You base this on what? The Stormcloaks goal is to rid Skyrim of Imperial control hence the "Skyrim for Nords". Some nords are bigot retards. Good job on you for pulling an entire rebellion over the same edge. People do not rebel for no reason. Besides the Aldmeri dominion isn't as a huge and looming threat as you'd think. The Red Guard flat out kicked their asses when they tried invading them. The Empire is weak and pathetic and is only sucking Skyrim dry for it's silver and warriors. They are right to rebel. Is it a good timing? Not really as the situation is likely to be exploited by the Thalmor. The High King was weak and a sycophant to the Empire. Do I think Ulfric acted right? Well he did kill the king lawfully. But his motives are anything but well-meaning. The rebellion itself however isn't bad it's just being exploited by a total **** of a leader. However Ulfric will be a stronger king than Torygg or his whore wife Eilisif.

The Redguard were barely able to stalemate The Thalmor.

saying they "kicked the thalmor's asses" is factually wrong.

retaking a pile of cities, on your own, after the unified empire lost them for you, is not a "stalemante" that is an ass kicking. Accept it

 

[SajuukKhar]

yeah, and all those were losts while imperial generals were in command. As soon as the redguards took matters in their own hands, they won! sur-fucking-prize. I see skyrim going this exact same way.

I fail to see how the empire defended it's own lands, the thalmor only left after making cyrodil it's puppet. Thalmor agents are all through the empire. they own the empire right now.

If by "as soon as" you mean "after years of constant gorilla fighting, and a general lack of giving a shit by the thalmor" then sure.

Also if you pay attention to people in Skyrim they make mention that The Thalmor actually had little to zero power before Ulfirc started his BS.

People act like The Thalmor are in every city blocks in the Empire when really they have little control over anything.

 

[SajuukKhar]

My point still stands. One province by themselves stopped them. Thats proof enough that the Empire is worthless as of the present. And no warriors match those of the nords. Besides with the Empire defeated under little under a month, Skyrim didn't suffer that much from the rebellion anyways. Too bad you couldn't desecrate Tullius corpse more. He's a racist asshole if anyone with his constant anti-nord sentiment.

No your point doesn't stand.

Stalemating =/= stopping.

Trying to equate the two is laughable.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Also, because it's a Civil War, I appreciate Bethesda created an accurate description of both sides of the conflict, as no one side is truly without fault of some kind. Plenty of aggressors on both sides of the conflict, which is very true to an historical civil war in our world history. I mean, just take a look at the American Civil War, same terms apply.

 

[Saltarius]

All fair points, but at the same time...I find the Empire's judgement questionable from the start. "Oh...it looks like this prisoner isn't on the list." "Kill him anyways." "Alright, time to die for no reason."

That dragon SAVED your ass. Should you not worship Dragon kind then? I do agree that the Empire seems less-asshole ish but they're both in the wrong in my eyes. With the Empire, it's as if just because they're fighting the good fight, they can piss on anyone they want.

Spoiler

That dragon was kind of Alduin, the guy who you end up having to kill to save the world so...

 

[SajuukKhar]

Whats funny is that Ulfric starting the civil war is why Alduin could return.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Point still stands. A few stood against many and succeded. It wasn't a full win. But it is proof that the Thalmor are never going to be able to conquer much with or without Skyrim supporting the Empire. Besides it's only a matter of time before Valenwood rebels against the Thalmor as well due to their treatment of the locals of Valenwood what with their purges and genocide.

And when Valenwood does rebel The Empire that has been rebuilding will take the opportunity to attack.

 

[EBHughsThe1st]

I chose the Empire.

First of all I really liked Whiterun. Seemed like a nice place. The Jarl was friendly. And if I went Stormcloak, I would have to storm in and kill the people who weren't all that bad.

That, and the Stormcloaks were like the dumb southerners of Skyrim. Like...the confederacy.

 

[Darkmantle]

yeah, and all those were losts while imperial generals were in command. As soon as the redguards took matters in their own hands, they won! sur-fucking-prize. I see skyrim going this exact same way.

I fail to see how the empire defended it's own lands, the thalmor only left after making cyrodil it's puppet. Thalmor agents are all through the empire. they own the empire right now.

If by "as soon as" you mean "after years of constant gorilla fighting, and a general lack of giving a shit by the thalmor" then sure.

Also if you pay attention to people in Skyrim they make mention that The Thalmor actually had little to zero power before Ulfirc started his BS.

People act like The Thalmor are in every city blocks in the Empire when really they have little control over anything.

you know what, I'm not going to continue arguing with your warped version of the lore. You keep talking but none of what you say is true in the context of TES: skyrim, you seem to be making things up or severely twisting existing sources, and will never be convinced short of the developers telling you that you're wrong. And even then, you will dismiss it as a ret-con.

Make all the excuses and rationalizations you want, but hammerfell won, the imperials lost. so reguards>thalmor>empire no matter how you slice it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

you know what, I'm not going to continue arguing with your warped version of the lore. You keep talking but none of what you say is true in the context of TES: skyrim, you seem to be making things up or severely twisting existing sources, and will never be convinced short of the developers telling you that you're wrong. And even then, you will dismiss it as a ret-con.

Make all the excuses and rationalizations you want, but hammerfell won, the imperials lost. so reguards>thalmor>empire no matter how you slice it.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War
Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year. Titus II knew that there would be no better time to negotiate peace, and late in 4E 175 the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion signed the White-Gold Concordat, ending the Great War.

The truth of that assertion can, of course, never be known. But the Redguards should not forget the great sacrifice of Imperial blood - Breton, Nord, and Cyrodilic - at the Battle of the Red Ring that weakened the Dominion enough to allow the eventual Second Treaty of Stros M'kai in 4E 180 and the withdrawal of Aldmeri forces from Hammerfell.


Try harder next time.

It took the Redguards 5 years of constant gorilla warfare to stalemate The Thalmor.

And even then.... the Redguards still couldn't beat The thalmor.

the only person i see twisting lore here is.... you.

 

[Darkmantle]

So anyway, back on topic.

why does everyone think the stormcloaks are racist, I seriously never got that vibe and am curious for how others reached that conclusion.

 

[Major Chip]

I figured the empire were doing what they had to do to stay in the fight against the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks were walking into the most obvious 'divide and conquer' strategy ever formulated.

I disliked this side of the game anyway. In the end, it felt as if the whole thing was worthless. A few Jarls change house and some new dialogue arrives, but nothing substantial. This plot should've eventually tied to the dragon war plot, instead of them being seperate things. There's always been this kind of issue with TES, plots don't merge properly.

The new arch-mage walks into the thieves/fighters guild and people don't bat an eyelid? The Thalmor try to kill me for no reason, and when I kill the next Thalmor I see, I get a bounty? I hope Bethesda take the criticism and focus it on DLC. Like how GTA4 did with The Ballad of Gay Tony, turning it back into the GTA we wanted, sorta.

 

[SajuukKhar]

So a free Skyrim in the long run does not harm the Empire that much but only weakens them. So Skyrim should have it's indepence as it is right to claim it. However I had hoped the civil war part to be longer and give me more influence over the outcome, perhaps even claiming the throne myself or somesuch. Hope the DLC expands on the events of the Civil War.

Skyrim is home to the Nords, one of the empires best group of warriors. Skyrim leaving would be a massive blow to The empires armed forces. furthermoe Uflric is too petty and self-serving to help The empire when the time comes to attack The Thalmor again.

Also they wont make a DLC based on the civil war.

The dovahkiin became Talos at the end of the civil war no matter which side he chooses, Bethesda is just going to pull another dragon-break event and make both endings happen like they did with Daggerfall.