It might be time to split the country.

Kae

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I mean if such extreme measures are to be taken, we may as well just give all Mexican land back to México since we stole it from them...
Shhhh, don't tell them.
 
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Dalisclock

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You also hint at a more desperate problem. Suppose the Blue States really do radically decline. Will they look like easy pickings for the Red states causing us to be in a hot war anyway?
Again, best to just try and figure this all out.
But if the Blue states are so shitty, why would the red states want to? Aren't they already living in the best part of America?

This goes back to the above joke of:

Red States: If you don't like America, Leave!
Blue States: Okay.
Red States: Oh, no you don't!

Seriously, make up your fucking minds.
 

Hawki

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So, I've kind of wondered about this from across the pond. It's not so much a question of the country being divided, it's a question of how the divide seems to prevent the government from actually governing, and where everything is a partisan competition. Heck, Republicans might even welcome it, if we factor in demographic change being unfavourable to them.

On the other hand, I'd like to point out that:

-That map is crazy as hell. The red states are at least all connected bar Alaska, but the blue states are fragmented.

-This isn't my conclusion, but I remember reading somewhere about how independence movements in recent history have rarely worked out. Eretria separated from Ethiopia, and that led to the former falling to dictatorship, and the latter losing access to the sea. South Sudan became independent from (north) Sudan, and fell into civil war. Independence and self-determination sounds good, but it can lead to a lot of problems.

-Saw another suggestion that the US should be more like the EU. As in, in this case, every state should be fully sovereign, but be part of a greater trading bloc. I could see this helping states like California and Texas at least, which I understand are economic powerhouses, and both have toyed with secession regardless of the blue/red divide.

-Balkanization is a thing, and it ain't pretty. On the other hand, the British Empire and Soviet Union disbanded fairly peacefully, and the former led to the Commonwealth, so maybe there's a template. Or maybe it'll lead to war, and red and blue soldiers will be sent to box canyons asking why they're there.

I mean if such extreme measures are to be taken, we may as well just give all Mexican land back to México since we stole it from them...
Shhhh, don't tell them.
Didn't Mexico technically steal it from Amerindians?

The whole "stolen land" argument has never worked for me, because apart from a handful of places on the planet, every piece of real estate is stolen. We're actually in an atypical point in human history where the amount of land grabs (as in, states invading other states) is at an all-time low.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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This is one of those Excessively Liberal ideas that kinda proves the point that the left wing in the US is solidly right wing in any sane country. Like, if we accept the idea that red states are so irrevocably racist/sexist/backwards/etc/whatever that we should abandon them, then we're also abandoning every marginalized group to their mercy.

AKA, if we ban all the Muslims, how would Muslim refugees escape their oppressors?
 
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Secondhand Revenant

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This is one of those Excessively Liberal ideas that kinda proves the point that the left wing in the US is solidly right wing in any sane country. Like, if we accept the idea that red states are so irrevocably racist/sexist/backwards/etc/whatever that we should abandon them, then we're also abandoning every marginalized group to their mercy.

AKA, if we ban all the Muslims, how would Muslim refugees escape their oppressors?
Idk that it proves much, but maybe I just don't hear people saying it that often to associate it with the left in the US. But I certainly agree with your point that abandoning people to those other places is yikes
 

BrawlMan

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Fuck that shit. The country does not need more tragedy and another civil war . We do not need another East/West Germany or North/South Korea. Too impractical and will makes things worse than they already are. The only people who would want are ignorant idiots who don't know the government, economics, or the country works. Either that, or you're The Joker, Johan Liebert, Kun Lan, or Junko Enoshima. Whom all like to spread chaos and ultimate despair.
 

gorfias

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But if the Blue states are so shitty, why would the red states want to? Aren't they already living in the best part of America?

This goes back to the above joke of:

Red States: If you don't like America, Leave!
Blue States: Okay.
Red States: Oh, no you don't!

Seriously, make up your fucking minds.
I'd certainly say, "Oh no you don't" if by leaving, one means with 1/2 of CONUS. But if Cher wants to leave cuz she's butt hurt that Trump won? Sheesh. Don't let the door hit her on the way out.
Reminds me of a thought someone published: Filipinos were demonstrating holding signs demanding US military leave. Also signs decrying tough immigration laws making it very difficult for them to leave the Philippines as well and move to the USA. It was as if they were demanding, "Yankee go home... and take us with you" If Cher hates us so much (or Ilhan Omar for that matter) why are they here?

Why would red state want the collapsed blue states? Why has there ever been Imperialism? A stronger power seeks to exploit a weaker (collapsed) power.
 

Kae

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Didn't Mexico technically steal it from Amerindians?

The whole "stolen land" argument has never worked for me, because apart from a handful of places on the planet, every piece of real estate is stolen. We're actually in an atypical point in human history where the amount of land grabs (as in, states invading other states) is at an all-time low.
Well I wasn't being serious but since you don't seem to be very smart about this, México is very different from the USA, our identity isn't that of Spaniard descendants, even white Mexicans don't think of themselves as such, we think of ourselves more as Aztecs, Mayans, Olmecs, Chichimecs, etc (There are over 200 ethnicities I can't list them all) as such the Amerindians as you refer to them, to us would have just been Mexicans and you know we wouldn't have had tried to commit genocide against them like you crazy gringos did, because you suck so it's not exactly the same thing since we wouldn't have segregated them in the same manner that you did, I need to remind you that the Northern Native tribes are as native as any other tribe.

That being said our government is hot garbage and my post was more meant to be goof, since I was a Mexican pretending to be a gringo trying to convince gringos to give us our land back.
Like this kind of goof.
 
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happyninja42

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This is one of those Excessively Liberal ideas that kinda proves the point that the left wing in the US is solidly right wing in any sane country. Like, if we accept the idea that red states are so irrevocably racist/sexist/backwards/etc/whatever that we should abandon them, then we're also abandoning every marginalized group to their mercy.

AKA, if we ban all the Muslims, how would Muslim refugees escape their oppressors?
Funny since the people I know who actually want this shit to happen, are the most conservative, republican fuckwads on the planet. So I call bullshit on the idea that this is some kind of "liberal" idea. Though it wouldn't surprise me if more liberals are finding the idea increasingly appealing, in that fantasy "get me the fuck away from these assholes" kind of way. But it's on par with those fantasies of "i want to be a billionaire and live on an island in space, with a harem of Ashley Graham clones" Nice in theory, highly impractical in execution.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Reminds me of a thought someone published: Filipinos were demonstrating holding signs demanding US military leave. Also signs decrying tough immigration laws making it very difficult for them to leave the Philippines as well and move to the USA. It was as if they were demanding, "Yankee go home... and take us with you" If Cher hates us so much (or Ilhan Omar for that matter) why are they here?
Man, what a warped view that person must have. Since when do I need to want someone's military bases around to like their country? That's just such a bizarre thought, it's kind of amazing someone just took it for granted one would have to do with the other.
 

Dalisclock

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I'd certainly say, "Oh no you don't" if by leaving, one means with 1/2 of CONUS. But if Cher wants to leave cuz she's butt hurt that Trump won? Sheesh. Don't let the door hit her on the way out.


Why would red state want the collapsed blue states? Why has there ever been Imperialism? A stronger power seeks to exploit a weaker (collapsed) power.
Because it's our country too. When you hear the "If you don't like it, Leave it!" it's pretty much always coming from the right, because the left(as it is) apparently doesn't deserve to live here because reasons.

Why would red state want the collapsed blue states? Why has there ever been Imperialism? A stronger power seeks to exploit a weaker (collapsed) power.
So cheap (or free labor) and resources at the expense of the locals. Got it.

Nice to know the red states are looking forward to invading and exploiting us for their benefit. I'm not sure how this reflects well on you though. When the right complains about "Gov't Tyranny" and then talking about "Hey, won't it be great to invade the blue states if they collapse".

Which, btw, you haven't offered any evidence to support that the Blue states are destined for collapse if they would (hypothetically) leave.
 
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SupahEwok

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Nice to know the red states are looking forward to invading and exploiting us for their benefit.
Wouldn't worry too much about that, we'll be too busy keeping Kentucky, Mississippi, West Virginia, North and South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Arkansas afloat. I don't actually know if they're that poor, but they fill out 9/10 of the low spots on the state median income list, so...
 

09philj

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The US is severely hampered by it's blatantly inadequate and unrepresentative system of government but it's not in the interests of the most powerful people in the political system to change it, so it remains. The two party system is a fucking blight and totally unnecessary, but nobody at the DNC or RNC is going to stand up and say "you know what, we shouldn't exist", despite the fact that increasingly partisan politics is pushing the US further into chaos and making the Democrats in particular look like an increasingly tenuous alliance of highly disparate interests.
 

Dalisclock

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Wouldn't worry too much about that, we'll be too busy keeping Kentucky, Mississippi, West Virginia, North and South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Arkansas afloat. I don't actually know if they're that poor, but they fill out 9/10 of the low spots on the state median income list, so...
But, according to gorfias, it's the blue states headed for collapse while the red states will be able to conquer us because....the US hasn't had a decisive victory in any war worth speaking of since WW2. That's why we spent 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan and have nothing close a stable, victorious outcome, despite those being third world nations. And of course, there's the whole vietnam thing.....

I'm so confused.

Or is Gorfias coming to gaslight me about how those were total victories or something, because Murica!
 

SupahEwok

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But, according to gorfias, it's the blue states headed for collapse while the red states will be able to conquer us because....the US hasn't had a decisive victory in any war worth speaking of since WW2. That's why we spent 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan and have nothing close a stable, victorious outcome, despite those being third world nations. And of course, there's the whole vietnam thing.....

I'm so confused.

Or is Gorfias coming to gaslight me about how those were total victories or something, because Murica!
Perhaps he'll take my dad's line and say we could have won Vietnam if it weren't for cowardly Dems who withdrew our military support for the South Vietnamese government.
 
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Dalisclock

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Perhaps he'll take my dad's line and say we could have won Vietnam if it weren't for cowardly Dems who withdrew our military support for the South Vietnamese government.
Or just were allowed to commit more war crimes. Because more war crimes makes everything better.

Oh, and Somalia. Don't forget Somalia. We would have won there too if we'd just been allowed to level the city with AC-130's.
 

SupahEwok

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Or just were allowed to commit more war crimes. Because more war crimes makes everything better.
You can't build a free and democratic society without a few mass human rights violations, my man Kissinger always told me.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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I don't understand why so many people think the red states want to split off so they can then... immediately attack, and conquer and then have to police the states that they hated so much that they wanted to secede from to begin with?

ccc2ca935f6c1a7f3c72a5f7c9ccfd67.gif

Anyway, I'm off to watch Canadians donate thousands of dollars to someone for the memes.
 

SupahEwok

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I don't understand why so many people think the red states want to split off so they can then... immediately attack, and conquer and then have to police the states that they hated so much that they wanted to secede from to begin with?

View attachment 966
Probably for the same reason the red states think the blue states want to take complete control of the country and run it to the ground.