It's my opinion man

[wulf3n]

Given that a belief is just a position on a matter that doesn't take into account evidence, then of course there'll be some overlap.

100% overlap, actually.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion

a belief, judgment, or way of thinking about something : what someone thinks about a particular thing

Carry on.

Yes all opinions are beliefs, but not all beliefs are opinions.

The key element of an opinion is the subjectivity of the matter, where as a belief can exist despite or in-spite of available evidence.

 

[Longstreet]

To quote George Carlin.

"Oh yea, well i have a right to my opinion. And my opinion is that you have no right to your opinion."

[small][small][small] Then shoot the fuck and walk away. [/small][/small][/small]

 

[blazearmoru]

So I heard this quote that I really like : "There are very few things in this world that arn't opinions, but there is a difference between normal opinions and informed opinions. Some opinions have a higher quality than others."

Then there was a picture explaining that :

Many supporting evidences make up an argument.
Many arguments make up an informed opinion.

O-o so yea. That's how I feel.

 

[King Aragorn]

Again, using the whole we should just bomb all Middle Eastern people example here. If I say it's because they live in sand and I don't like sand that's just..illogical and not very valid.

So... It's your opinion that said reasoning behind the previously stated opinion is "illogical and not very valid"?

In the unlikely case of someone actually having that opinion, with that reasoning, I doubt they would agree with your assessment of their reasoning. (Subjectivity) is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes but here you're being needlessly technical and that is provided we do use valid's actual meaning over it just standing for ''explain''. This may come across as arrogant and I don't mean for it to do so, as yes subjectivity is in the eye of the beholder practicality vs technicality.
But again, that's provided your going to use valid like that, and not valid meaning just the reasoning.

 

[Eamar]

People aren't always obligated to explain their opinions, especially if the topic is about some sort of an entertainment product.

Of course, more serious matters deserve extensive discussion, cause someone other than the person stating their opinion could be affected by the outcome. Things like politics, religion, ethics, etc. are things where people need to consider all sides of the matter before coming to a decision.

But when it comes to games, movies, TV, etc, I don't care if someone wants to go into more detail about their preferences, cause it's a matter of entertainment. I'm here on these forums to talk about my likes and dislikes. But if someone simply wants to state their opinion and doesn't want to enter a heated (let's face it - gaming forums get insane at times) discussion, then that's perfectly fine.

They have reached a point where they either see no point in continuing or just want to step away from the debate before things get nasty.

This, 100%

Not everyone who states their opinion wants to get into a huge discussion about it. Not all forum threads are designed to be debates. If the thread simply asks, say, "What's your favourite video game of all time?" it's perfectly reasonable to just state your preference (ideally with a couple of explanatory sentences, of course) and leave it at that. If someone then takes issue with your opinion and demands an explanation, you are not required to give it to them.

 

[Vegosiux]

This, 100%

Not everyone who states their opinion wants to get into a huge discussion about it. Not all forum threads are designed to be debates. If the thread simply asks, say, "What's your favourite video game of all time?" it's perfectly reasonable to just state your preference (ideally with a couple of explanatory sentences, of course) and leave it at that. If someone then takes issue with your opinion and demands an explanation, you are not required to give it to them.

I'm not sure what universe you live in, but can I move there? It seems like a very reasonable place, and there's no such thing as "too reasonable".

But yes, pretty much this. Everyone has opinions, sometimes they're at odds. And sometimes, I don't feel like coughing up a 20-page peer reviewed thesis just so that random people might consider my opinion "relevant". Acknowledge and dismiss it all you want, just don't act as if I should have kept my mouth shut because I didn't feel like dissecting my opinion and explaining it in detail.

Not every discussion needs to be an exercise in navel-gazing.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Subjectivity can't be wrong. That's why it's subjective. Objectivity has a truth value to it though, and as such, can be wrong.

I disagree.

Subjectivity can be wrong provided the statement on what the subject is wind up being uninformed or not experiencing the entire thing.

Let's use the recent high ratings of Total War Rome 2's reviews as an example. Many of the reviewers subjectively liked the game. They thought it was presented well. Problem is, their subjective experience was very limited due to the nature of a few factors.

1.It was released in the busiest season of gaming. Many reviewers are playing multiple games as quickly as possible to cover as many big releases as they can. So they may not be able to dedicate as much time with a game as usual.

2.Total War is a strategy war game. If we are of the mind that reviews are there to inform the potential customer of the game's qualities, objective and subjective, then the reviewer should have spent dozens of hours forming their opinion due to the grand nature of the detail put into most strategy war games. This was not done for Total War Rome 2 due to time
constraints and the length of understanding Creative Assembly's titles.

3.Creative Assembly fully admitted to creating their games for high metacritic scores. This generally means that the first few hours of the game was what was worked on for launch the most. This was when the critical acclaim came in, the sales would follow due to most video game sales happening in the first week, therefore gaining Creative Assembly an instant profit on the product.


Here's the problem.

The more customers and non-website based review/first impressionists played the game, the more they found they game was, in an objective sense, not finished. The AI would send units of 12 up against the player's unit stack of hundreds plus. The AI would try to besiege a city with 10 men. Boats would travel on land. Enemy units would march in circles while in battle. Missions would not work. It would crash often. The graphical fidelity was not matching what was shown in gameplay trailers.

My point is, the people who reviewed the game clearly had the wrong subjective opinion of Total War 2's release state. Subjectivity can be wrong in cases where the subject was only minimally experienced.

Another example was when a bunch of reviewers put out their subjective belief that Beyond: Two Souls didn't give the player choices to make.

In a game with 27+ endings...

That'd be like watching Batman Begins' first 30 minutes and then writing a review that you hated the movie due to Batman not showing up.

 

[EeveeElectro]

I've never encountered this because when I see someone has an opinion that's different to mine (As in "I think this because...") I just don't care. They have theirs and I have mine and I'm not going to convince them otherwise. It would be like shouting at a brick wall for the good it would do.

The only times I have risen to it is when I seem some obvious troll bait such as "Women shouldn't vote cos they're stupid bitches" or "gays shouldn't marry" and it's obvious all they want is a rise out of you, so they don't reply.

If I did hear "it's just my opinion" going back to someone who disagrees with me regarding entertainment, I'd just leave it. If they can't arsed explaining their opinion, I can't be arsed wasting another minute talking to them.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

This, 100%

Not everyone who states their opinion wants to get into a huge discussion about it. Not all forum threads are designed to be debates. If the thread simply asks, say, "What's your favourite video game of all time?" it's perfectly reasonable to just state your preference (ideally with a couple of explanatory sentences, of course) and leave it at that. If someone then takes issue with your opinion and demands an explanation, you are not required to give it to them.

I'm not sure what universe you live in, but can I move there? It seems like a very reasonable place, and there's no such thing as "too reasonable".

But yes, pretty much this. Everyone has opinions, sometimes they're at odds. And sometimes, I don't feel like coughing up a 20-page peer reviewed thesis just so that random people might consider my opinion "relevant". Acknowledge and dismiss it all you want, just don't act as if I should have kept my mouth shut because I didn't feel like dissecting my opinion and explaining it in detail.

Not every discussion needs to be an exercise in navel-gazing.

I agree, but to be fair there are plenty of instances where the debate has been taking place for a while and "It's my opinion". Is used as a rebuttal in a weak attempt to end the debate. In those cases I'd prefer if people said, "We'll have to agree to disagree." And concede to the fact that you won't change the other person's mind.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Some people need to learn to actually make proper arguments though, with evidence and examples to give them credibility and legitimacy.

I hate it when you write something that is your opinion, someone agrees with you, but instantly either takes something out of context, or just attacks you personally. Like in the OP, if I had made an albeit valid quip about Assassins Creed Revelations with examples added I would 100% expect any response to be someone calling me insensitive...

It's annoying and absurd and very lazy.

 

[King Aragorn]

This, 100%

Not everyone who states their opinion wants to get into a huge discussion about it. Not all forum threads are designed to be debates. If the thread simply asks, say, "What's your favourite video game of all time?" it's perfectly reasonable to just state your preference (ideally with a couple of explanatory sentences, of course) and leave it at that. If someone then takes issue with your opinion and demands an explanation, you are not required to give it to them.

I'm not sure what universe you live in, but can I move there? It seems like a very reasonable place, and there's no such thing as "too reasonable".

But yes, pretty much this. Everyone has opinions, sometimes they're at odds. And sometimes, I don't feel like coughing up a 20-page peer reviewed thesis just so that random people might consider my opinion "relevant". Acknowledge and dismiss it all you want, just don't act as if I should have kept my mouth shut because I didn't feel like dissecting my opinion and explaining it in detail.

Not every discussion needs to be an exercise in navel-gazing.

What did you benefit by posting your opinion if you don't want to explain it further or reply to those who may think differently or offer differing point of views? you say you don't care what others think and the like, but without discussion the point of a forum ceases.

 

[shrekfan246]

"Opinion" isn't some magic word you can hide behind to stop yourself being wrong, the sooner people learn this the better.

Of course, on the other hand there are almost undoubtedly people in the world to whom chocolate does taste like shit.

Anyway, a fundamental problem with the message OP is trying to get across is that far too often people state their opinions like facts. And in the realm of entertainment, you really just can't do that because something you think is terrible is not going to be terrible to everyone else, no matter exactly how bad you think it is. I don't care how many people were outraged at Dragon Age II, it's not the worst game ever created. SimCity and Diablo III aren't bad games because of online DRM. WoW and Call of Duty aren't bad games because they're popular.

There are certainly other reasons why someone could explain their dislike for each game, but in the realm of subjectivity too much is fluid and malleable. You hate the reused dungeons and areas in Dragon Age II? Okay, but recognize that it won't necessarily be as big a problem for someone else. You think the item drops in Diablo III are horribly balanced and completely ruined because of the AH? Okay, but that doesn't mean someone else won't have fun with the actual gameplay. You think CoD had too tight a grip on the industry and caused an influx of modern military shooters? Okay, but until Ghosts they were still fairly competently-made games.

Honestly, I wouldn't lose any sleep if everyone ever qualified their posts with "in my opinion". People put so much weight on their opinions that they seem to forget other people will hold different ones, and then become outraged when they see one that doesn't line up with their own.

 

[Eamar]

What did you benefit by posting your opinion if you don't want to explain it further or reply to those who may think differently or offer differing point of views? you say you don't care what others think and the like, but without discussion the point of a forum ceases.

I'm pretty sure I answered this in my post. It depends on the nature of the thread: not all forum threads are designed to be debates.

If, to re-use my unimaginative example, the thread simply asks "What is your favourite video game?" and you respond with your personal answer plus a little bit of explanation, there's no obligation or expectation to add more. In that case, what you gain from posting in that thread is "showing your colours," or identifying yourself as a fan of a particular game, and contributing to the overall picture of which games are popular or unpopular on that particular forum. Sometimes what you gain is the happiness of remembering and sharing a favourite thing or moment (sounds a bit wet I know, but I've had that experience before).

Obviously you are correct when the thread actually is designed to be a debate though, and if a serious political/religious/ethical discussion is underway. But when you're just saying that you like a piece of entertainment? Sure, you can debate that, but not everyone wants to.

I get that you like to debate and that's your primary reason for using forums, but please try to bear in mind that not everyone feels that way.

 

[Flames66]

The more annoying one is when people need you to shove IMO IMO on everything so they get the message that's its bloody subjective. Did I ever suggest it isn't? no? then why do you think otherwise?

I gave up putting IMO or similar on things a while ago. It should be obvious that it's my opinion as I'm the one typing it.

OT: It doesn't particularly bother me when someone says something like "It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it". I see it as they don't want to continue discussing it, but want to acknowledge that there are differing opinions.

 

[Vegosiux]

What did you benefit by posting your opinion if you don't want to explain it further or reply to those who may think differently or offer differing point of views? you say you don't care what others think and the like, but without discussion the point of a forum ceases.

"Not every" =/= "None at all".

And honestly, nothing's wrong with discussions, but I have a couple problems with them, as in, a) too often people think it's a contest; 2) too often people form prejudices on previous opinions; III) some topics are simply suited to a light-hearted exchange of tastes as opposed to a mind-bending exercise in philosophy.

Then again, Eamar's explained it really well already.

I'll just add that on a forum like this, nobody "owes" you anything, and to say other people are "wasting your time" by not adhering to your personal ruleset of talking over things is really conceited.

 

[Right Hook]

Okay went on a bit of a rant here, but what do you think of this dilemma we often see on the magical land of internet?

Personally I think it tends to happen because some people who debate just get too mean and venomous. Saying IMO a lot makes it so they can't dig into you quite as hard, as for why you'd post if you didn't want to debate? I guess maybe just to give the discussion a different perspective without getting bogged down in a fight over aspects of something you may find trivial. Really though the point of threads like this are to find like-minded people you get along with or opposition who can offer up an interesting perspective and make you change your mind (almost never fucking happens on the internet, even when it should). IMO should go without saying but for a lot of people who can't see outside of their own thoughts, it really doesn't.

 

[Robot Number V]

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you about the rampant use of "IMO". If I say something subjective, I shouldn't have to clarify that it's a subjective statement, the statement itself should be evidence enough. For example, if I said "Blue is the best color", then OBVIOUSLY that's just my fucking opinion. I once got into an argument over DOGS AND CATS just because I said "Dogs are better than cats" without throwing in an "IMO". People just assumed that I thought dogs were QUANTIFIABLY better than cats. Again, it's a subjective statement! ANY thoughts are the matter are, by definition, just opinions!

"I'm of the opinion that the Earth is flat"
"I'm of the opinion that climate change is a myth"
"I'm of the opinion that homosexuality is a choice"
"I'm of the opinion that transgender people are just attention seeking people who like to play dress-up, and that there's no such thing as gender dysphoria"

Need I go on?

At least a couple of these "opinions" are regularly found on this very forum, despite being blatantly wrong.

Those aren't opinions they're beliefs.

Opinion refers to that which is subjective. If the thought in question is about something that can be objectively assessed, with a position that goes against the established facts considered a belief.

People who have those positions will often refer to them as opinions, but they're not.

Hmm. I feel compelled to offer my own take on this.

Obviously those statements are not opinions, as much as the people holding them might think otherwise. Opinions are subjective, and cannot be proven correct or incorrect. Once a concept IS proven as correct or incorrect, than you either accept it or you continue your ignorance. Stating your ignorance as an opinion does not make it so.

However, I don't think they would be "beliefs" either, since there's plenty of evidence to prove them as false. Opinions are just thoughts people have on subjects that are subjective. Beliefs can be the same thing, but they also cover thoughts people have that might be true, but can't be proven either way. The difference being that a favorite color will always be a a subjective issue, and thus will always be an opinion. The belief that the human race was intelligently designed (however unlikely) might be proven true someday, so it would be a belief.

The examples listed above are just falsehoods. They're not opinions or beliefs, they're just examples of ignorance. Which is basically what happens when a belief is proven to be false, and people keep on believing it anyway.

Basically, the thing to take away from this is that neither opinions OR beliefs can be proven wrong. If something CAN be proven wrong, than it's not an opinion or a belief (though the person holding it may ignorantly think otherwise) it's just an example of ignorance.

 

[Ieyke]

So here you are, typing away at that little box in whatever forum you visit, perhaps it's about why this movie is super flawed, or why Assassin's Creed Revelations is a failed abortion that should have stayed in the canned projects bin, and then you hit the post button in reply to the person who claims otherwise, and you get a reply.
''It's like my opinion man''.
How do you feel when this happen? to be honest I just can't stand this. It just defeats the point of a forum when all we are going to do is typing away and expecting no replies, we have blogs for that. When you post an opinion, expect it to be challenged, argued, debated, you name it. This is honestly the only place where I haven't gotten that type of comment. The more annoying one is when people need you to shove IMO IMO on everything so they get the message that's its bloody subjective. Did I ever suggest it isn't? no? then why do you think otherwise?

Okay went on a bit of a rant here, but what do you think of this dilemma we often see on the magical land of internet?

Opinions can be wrong, and quite frequently are.
All that is is admitting defeat of one's undefendable opinion.

 

[Vegosiux]

All that is is admitting defeat of one's undefendable opinion.

Defeat? I'd have thought learning something would be a victory.

But I guess it's still more important to "defeat" others in this combat of internet information than "share knowledge". Just goes to show people tend to "debate" just to feel superior to others, the selfish, despicable creatures that we are.

Oh, the... [http://www.wrestleenigma.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/oh_the_hue_manatee_by_wishermadeawishfall-d4kdo2x.jpg]

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

I've just been having an argument with someone who claims that vaccines cause autism, and when given evidence to the contrary he said he still just "believed" they did and they were dangerous "In his opinion". It's not about opinion you fuckwit, it's about fact, fuck you. I'm not going to "agree to disagree", you're demonstrably wrong. Fuck off.

I find that much more infuriating than people who use the opinion defense when it actually applies to opinion.

Agree with this, and I've come across that specific example as well.

As regards the original poster though... yeah, if you've gone to some pains to explain exactly WHY you hold a certain opinion, it is annoying as hell when people just post "I disagree" or "that's what you think" without offering any counter-argument. It suggests that they haven't even read your argument, or can't be bothered to take the time to understand what you're actually saying before posting a response to it.

It's the whole review scores thing again - some reviewers get "flamed" for posting "unpopular" scores, yet the people doing the flaming don't see to have even read the review beforehand.